Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[CAHokie]

Crimebuster,

 

I believe that Gsim was implying that you cant put the donation as part of your pif when all along you are getting a tax credit for it.

[Gsims718]

I don't want to get too involved in this argument, but I was in pretty much the same situation as Mr. Wiggles when I claimed the Sandman TPB lot last year and got yelled at because my offers weren't "appropriate" as a follow up. Even though, as is again the case with Mr. Wiggles, almost all of my offers to that point had been claimed pretty quickly and with no complaints from the claimers, who all seemed perfectly happy to receive what i sent them.

 

So the problem is not with the quality of the offers Mr. Wiggles is presenting, but rather with this notion that his offers have to match the value of what he received. Despite all the arguments and discussions that have taken place since this came up in my Sandman incident, I still feel that this line of thinking is completely at odds with the basic idea of the thread.

 

I specifically need to disagree with pretty much everything said by Gsims. I found this quote especially ironic:

 

"A charitable contribution is a donation or gift to, or for the use of, a qualified organization. It is voluntary and is made without getting, or ex­pecting to get, anything of equal value."

 

Given that the PIF thread was originally supposed to be about voluntarily giving but instead has become something where there's an expectation of equal value.

 

I can't be the only one who read that and did a literal face palm, right?

 

Look, there's obviously two groups of people here (three if you count the few actual scammers and four if you count the Comic General rubberneckers, but two that actually participate) - people who don't pay much attention to the values of the offerings and just take and give stuff in what they feel is the spirit of the thread, and those who view it is more of a trading post for items of similar value. There's a fundamental disconnect between these two groups about what this thread is supposed to be accomplishing.

 

I'm starting to think this disconnect is just never going to be resolved.

 

The part you quoted about the donation was regarding what he said about the donation he makes to the Children's hospital.

 

I absolutely have no expectation of equal value, and think it is extremely cool when someone offers something of higher value than what they took. The problem is when it is the same person over and over and over taking things, and offering fractions in return.

 

If you have enough to fulfill a bunch of smaller offers, and you keep taking larger offers, why not take the plunge once in a while and offer up something bigger yourself, or allow more than one option to be picked up by the next person.

 

Maybe it could be solved by extending the time that you can take an offer to say a month, but with the regulars that like the contribute that would probably end the thread.

[CAHokie]

Honestly Mr. Wiggles, I do not want this to turn into a bashing you thread. It is not even a statement on your offers themselves, just the overall picture. Trust me, we have all had our offers sit for a while at one time another. It took me a while to figure out what exactly it is people wanted. I feel that all of my offers are inadequate, but I can assure you that I make a real effort to figure out what people want. When it makes me grimace to give it away, I knew I did my best. ahhhh.... how I miss my Black Cat Sketch by Delgado and ASM 606 I gave away together last year.

 

 

I just wanted you to know that is what a large number of people feel. Perhaps you are completely oblivious to it or perhaps you truly are trying to get more in return then you give. No one would know because we only get to know you in this one thread. I would be more than happy to discuss it nicely with you in PM if you would like. I mean that too.

[Mr Wiggles]

CAHokie just said what alot of us are feeling.

 

The fact that pretty much the ONLY thread you frequent is the PIF thread, or the discussion about it, doesn't help the case that you just seem to be trying to game the system.

 

You didn't address how you felt it was right to take 9 trades and offer two, or how you took that statue and offered much less in return.

 

It seems like you quote the value rule non stop because it is the one that benefits you the most.

 

And also just cause it's tax season, technically you aren't donating anything, or maybe your just not being charitable. -

 

"A charitable contribution is a donation or gift

to, or for the use of, a qualified organization. It is

voluntary and is made without getting, or ex­

pecting to get, anything of equal value."

 

Leave it to PiF to talk mess about a donation to a Children's Hospital...

 

I spend most of my commenting time in the PiF related threads. It is a side effect of the fact you have to communicate in order to participate. I read threads all over the forums, though. I've been saved from buying books off less then reputable dealers (how I discovered the forums), spent many hours looking at books I can one day dream of owning, reading convention reports, reading the threads dedicated to the moderns I'm reading (the creator presence here is unreal), etc...

 

I post when I feel I have something to offer or when I need to communicate. PiF requires communication so that is where the majority of my posts reside. I participate in a great deal of exchanges on Reddit as well. Exchanges are fun.

 

I'll address my offerings after the Invincible trade claim. The specific offer (2 trades) was also accompanied by 3 new toy donations. I do think my offers were fair. I weighted my offers after the Invincible claim to be heavy on the donation. That seemed to not be popular so I switched it up and an offer was happily claimed.

 

I quote the value rule most frequently because it is the one rule most frequently broken. I also speak out when people insinuate an offer "must" be changed (it's not a rule) as well as when people attempt to institute their own preferences (ex: trying to usher in the newest rule before it was agreed upon officially). The law of averages is why I quote the value rule most often. Feel free to check my post history to see exactly what I've just laid out.

 

I don't claim a single toy I donate on my taxes. They are donated from the PiF community. I just facilitate getting them to the hospital. I'm working on a form letter that anyone can use to expand the facilitation of donations as I've had numerous PMs from users asking how they can do the same thing.

[Mr Wiggles]

I'd like to see the thread continue.

 

I'll bet you do.

 

You crack me up. Don't stop being you.

[The_Drek_Police]

After reading this whole thread, I've come to the conclusion that the oceankid or whatever his name is a joke for selling his received items within days and Mr wiggles needs to understand that "donation to a hospital" is irrelevant because we can do that by ourselves whenever we feel like it. You're single donation isn't going to make things better in the world so for you to make a big deal about it, you need to sit down and get out of the PIF

 

[Boboset]

CAHokie just said what alot of us are feeling.

 

The fact that pretty much the ONLY thread you frequent is the PIF thread, or the discussion about it, doesn't help the case that you just seem to be trying to game the system.

 

You didn't address how you felt it was right to take 9 trades and offer two, or how you took that statue and offered much less in return.

 

It seems like you quote the value rule non stop because it is the one that benefits you the most.

 

And also just cause it's tax season, technically you aren't donating anything, or maybe your just not being charitable. -

 

"A charitable contribution is a donation or gift

to, or for the use of, a qualified organization. It is

voluntary and is made without getting, or ex­

pecting to get, anything of equal value."

 

[Mr Wiggles]

Honestly Mr. Wiggles, I do not want this to turn into a bashing you thread. It is not even a statement on your offers themselves, just the overall picture.

 

Then stop putting me at the forefront of it and hiding behind "others" who message you privately. You are the one carrying the torch. The bashing stops when you finally realize that I'm not abusing a system. I'm participating in the system and going a step further by facilitating donations to good causes. I honestly can not believe this is conversation.

 

Trust me, we have all had our offers sit for a while at one time another. It took me a while to figure out what exactly it is people wanted. I feel that all of my offers are inadequate, but I can assure you that I make a real effort to figure out what people want. When it makes me grimace to give it away, I knew I did my best. ahhhh.... how I miss my Black Cat Sketch by Delgado and ASM 606 I gave away together last year.

 

This has nothing to do with offers sitting for a while. Look at my numbers. You told me the thread "grinds to a halt" when I claim and the truth is it doesn't.

 

I just wanted you to know that is what a large number of people feel. Perhaps you are completely oblivious to it or perhaps you truly are trying to get more in return then you give. No one would know because we only get to know you in this one thread. I would be more than happy to discuss it nicely with you in PM if you would like. I mean that too.

 

Other people can feel what they want. You spoke up about it. You have nothing but information now showing that what they "feel" is far from the truth.

 

I'm fine with communicating via PM. Why didn't it start that way rather than public accusations?

[Mayor006]

I didn't call you out. I actually made a point NOT to call you out specifically, but now that it is out in the open, I guess I will respond. Did you not notice that many members were trying to nudge you to up your offer after taking the statue? No? What a surprise. If you think someone claiming the offer somehow in any way means it was acceptable, you are wrong.

 

You edited the post where you blatantly called me out leaving only "Ok I will be good now...." Don't try to revise history.

 

A couple of weeks ago you claimed 9 trades of a popular series. In return you offered two trades, that were not even related to each other. Eyeball test alone says that is wrong. Luckily someone bailed you out in the final hours.

 

You claim a rare statue and in return offer used DVDs? Ok, that is fine, but perhaps you should have left that offer for one that you could at least come within 50% of.

 

Someone claiming your offer does not mean it was a matching offer to what was taken. Someone would have claimed my TODD 1-4 if that was all I offered in return for the OA but that does not make it right. That is why they got 22 Spiderman trades plus extras in the boxes as well.

 

I love how you conveniently leave out that I donate at least 1 new toy to a Children's Hospital with every one of my offers. Every single offer.

 

Are you incapable of talking about something without value as a factor? You do realize it's against the rules to participate, right? In case you haven't read the rules, or me quoting it over and over again, talking value is against the rules of participation in PiF. This includes posting pictures of completed eBay listings to "give a better picture outside the box".

 

Have you not noticed that when the thread starts flying there comes a point when it comes to a grinding halt? I will give you a guess when that happens. People shudder when you claim something because they know the thread is dead for a while. I received no less than 5 messages yesterday and a couple more today about it from people I have never even talked to before. Even in those messages I would not say your name or lay you specifically.

 

I'll bite. The elapsed time for my last 6 offers to be claimed (in reverse order):

4 hours 26 minutes

3 days 20 hours 48 minutes

3 minutes

9 hours 15 minutes

4 minutes

7 hours 41 minutes

 

Such time. Very halt.

 

I like to think that you just did not notice and that you are not abusing the system. I truly don't think that you are but perception is what it is.

 

I like to think that people make decisions based on the information at their disposal. Whatever "perception" you have, as you can see above, is far from the truth.

 

I think everyone should go back to page 73 and start from the beginning. See how long this has been going on how long it took even the very first PIF.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5773834&fpart=73

 

and just so you know, I wasn't even one of the people messaging CAHokie.

[CAHokie]

How am I hiding behind messages? I came out and said it. Very plainly and easy to understand. I was simply letting you know I am not the only one that feels this way. You can tell there are others that agree. How is it far from the truth? Two others have showed up saying they agree. Those are only 2 of many.

[Gsims718]

It's pointless, he obviously feels completely justified, and I among others don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of whether perceived, or real.

 

I might feel differently if he didn't take an offer any chance he could.

 

The only thing I can do is not participate anymore I guess.

 

PIF is like communism. "It works on paper"

[Mr Wiggles]

The many should all post.

[CAHokie]

Three now.

[Mr Wiggles]

It's pointless, he obviously feels completely justified, and I among others don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of whether perceived, or real.

 

I might feel differently if he didn't take an offer any chance he could.

 

The only thing I can do is not participate anymore I guess.

 

PIF is like communism. "It works on paper"

 

The 6 claims I took over the course of 7 months. If you'd like I could claim something weekly to fulfill your "any chance he could" statement. Is that what the "many" want?

[Gsims718]

The many should all post.

 

I wouldn't have posted and kept it to PM if CA wasn't starting to get bashed. Most people hate confrontation, and that includes me.

[Ares]

I am happy with what I got from Mr Wiggles.

Other there is no way to always keep up with the Value of an item.

IF that is case eventually we would have to offer AF15 one day

[CAHokie]

I am happy with what I got from Mr Wiggles.

Other there is no way to always keep up with the Value of an item.

IF that is case eventually we would have to offer AF15 one day

 

[Boboset]

Why would someone have to offer an AF15?

[CAHokie]

Ok, Wiggles it is obvious that the two sides are not going to see eye to eye on this. The last thing I want is to create a two side division. I will stop my comments in this thread as far as you go. Would you like to pm discuss or both of us let it go before a further division is created?

[mikenyc]

Honestly Mr. Wiggles, I do not want this to turn into a bashing you thread. It is not even a statement on your offers themselves, just the overall picture.

 

Then stop putting me at the forefront of it and hiding behind "others" who message you privately. You are the one carrying the torch. The bashing stops when you finally realize that I'm not abusing a system. I'm participating in the system and going a step further by facilitating donations to good causes. I honestly can not believe this is conversation.

 

Trust me, we have all had our offers sit for a while at one time another. It took me a while to figure out what exactly it is people wanted. I feel that all of my offers are inadequate, but I can assure you that I make a real effort to figure out what people want. When it makes me grimace to give it away, I knew I did my best. ahhhh.... how I miss my Black Cat Sketch by Delgado and ASM 606 I gave away together last year.

 

This has nothing to do with offers sitting for a while. Look at my numbers. You told me the thread "grinds to a halt" when I claim and the truth is it doesn't.

 

I just wanted you to know that is what a large number of people feel. Perhaps you are completely oblivious to it or perhaps you truly are trying to get more in return then you give. No one would know because we only get to know you in this one thread. I would be more than happy to discuss it nicely with you in PM if you would like. I mean that too.

 

Other people can feel what they want. You spoke up about it. You have nothing but information now showing that what they "feel" is far from the truth.

 

I'm fine with communicating via PM. Why didn't it start that way rather than public accusations?

 

I think it's great that you donate something to the children's hospital after you claim a PIF but it shouldn't obfuscate the fact that you seem to have a pattern of taking above ordinary offers and then following them up with, let's call it not above ordinary.

 

I understand that not all members can or are willing to offer larger valued PIF offers but my issue lies with those who wait and continually choose higher value offers to then follow up with low value offers.

 

To invoke the value rule when it's self serving is transparent. Maybe in the future consider passing up a special offer if you don't plant on following up with something special yourself.