Mcfarlane's ASM Run

[Logan510]

IMO it is the quintessential run of the copper age. With the copper age gaining some spotlight/rule of 25 you are seeing increased demand for the books.

 

Oh god, I hope not. No offense to your personal taste, but that's about the last thing I would show someone as representational of that era.

 

True enough. The Leifeld New Mutants run is a much better example of the best of the Copper Age.

There's an odd grain of truth here, if you use the phrase 'representational of that era'.

 

Marvel's house style from about 1991-1995 was very Liefeld influenced. Pouches, big guns, compound character names, jagged line detailing were commonplace.

 

Again, unfortunately.

[comicartfan]

Most important Copper Age book/run overall is likely TMNT.

 

Pencil me in for the DKR/Watchmen duo. They influenced the whole tone of storytelling in the hobby going forward.

 

DKR was the first comic I recall as being "mainstream". It garnished alot of attention from printed media and I think was an important part of pushing comics into a more adult audience. Non collectors realized that these weren't just "funny books" for kids.

 

[Bosco685]

DKR was the first comic I recall as being "mainstream". It garnished alot of attention from printed media and I think was an important part of pushing comics into a more adult audience. Non collectors realized that these weren't just "funny books" for kids.

Definitely the book that brought me back into comics during a great time.

 

But there was so much more going on beforehand.

 

Bronze-to-Copper Transition Points

 

• May 1979: Daredevil 158- First Miller art
  
• Nov 1979: Iron Man #128 "Demon in a Bottle"
  
• Feb 1980: She-Hulk #1
  
• Mar 1980: King Conan 1
  
• Apr 1980: Star Trek 1
  
• Spring 1980: Epic Illustrated 1
  
• Sep 1980: X-Men 137- Death of Dark Phoenix
  
• Oct 1980: DC Presents 26- first New Teen Titans
  
• Nov 1980: New Teen Titans 1
  
• Nov 1980: Moon Knight gets his own series
  
• 1980 : Superboy Spectacular- Direct Sales only 1-shot
  
• Jan 1981: Daredevil 168- First Miller -script; Intro Elektra
  
• Jan 1981: X-Men 141 "Days of Future Past" launches alternate timeline which would form the basis for many X-continuity books/characters over the next several years.
  
• Jan 1981: Capital Comics launches and publishes Nexus 1
  
• Mar 1981: X-Men 143- Final Claremont/Byrne
  
• Mar 1981: Dazzler 1- First direct-sales-only for an ongoing series
  
• Mar 1981: Bizarre Adventures starts
  
• Mar 1981: Captain Canuck is cancelled
  
• May 1981: Eclipse Magazine starts
  
• June 1981: The Hulk magazine ends
  
• Jul 1981: Fantastic Four 232 - Byrne takes over FF writing/art duties.
  
• Aug 1981: Rogue debuts
  
• Aug 1981: Marvel Premiere ends
  
• Nov 1981: Captain Victory 1- First Pacific Comics issue, direct-only publisher
  
• 1981: Marvel cancels many of its reprint titles, including MGC, AA, TTA, MSA, etc.
  
• 1981: Stan Lee moves to California to head Marvel TV/movie properties, leaving Jim Shooter in charge
  
• Jan 1982: Comico Comics founded: publishes Comico Primer #1.
  
• Feb 1982: Comico Primer #2 introduces the character Grendel (Hunter Rose) by Matt Wagner.
  
• March 1982: Warrior Magazine #1 (Marvelman, V for Vendetta)
  
• May 1982: Saga of the Swamp Thing #1
  
• June 1982: G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1
  
• June 1982: Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 (first Marvel mini-series, precursor to Secret Wars)
  
• Sept 1982: Love and Rockets debuts
  
• Sept 1982: Wolverine Mini #1
  
• 1982: Harvey Comics, Warren Publishing and Spire Comics cease operations
  
• 1982: DC cancels remaining Horror titles
  
• 1982: Start of creator royalties at Marvel and DC
  
• 1982: Steve Geppi founds Diamond
  
• 1982: Marvel introduces Graphic Novel series, including Death of Captain Marvel and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills.
  
• Dec 1982: New Mutants introduction published in Marvel Graphic Novel #4, leading to a 1983-1991 dedicated title.
  
• Jan 1983: Bill Willingham’s The Elementals introduced as part of backup story of Justice Machine Annual 1 (Texas Comics).
  
• Jan 1983: Albedo Anthropomorphics #0 published by Steven Gallacci.
  
• Feb 1983: The Buyer's Guide to Comics Fandom is acquired by Krause Publications and changes its name to Comics Buyer's Guide.
  
• Mar 1983: Warp published by First Comics, which also is its first comic by this later recognized independent publisher.
  
• May 1983: Jason Todd makes his debut as the second Robin in Detective Comics #526.
  
• Jun 1983: Master of Kung Fu, with issue #125, is cancelled by Marvel.
  
• Jun 1983: Marvel Two-in-One, with issue #100, is cancelled by Marvel (replaced the following month by the new title The Thing).
  
• Jun 1983: Jon Sable published by First Comics.
  
• Jul 1983: First issue of Frank Miller's Ronin limited series published by DC Comics.
  
• Jul 1983: Final issue of Brave and the Bold; also features a preview insert for the new title Batman and the Outsiders.
  
• Jul 1983: Mike Baron’s The Badger #1 published by Capital Comics.
  
• Aug 1983: Alan Moore's "The Bojeffries Saga" starts with Warrior #12, published by Quality Communications (continued through 1986).
  
• Aug 1983: Harris Publications acquired Warren Publishing's company assets (Vampirella, Creepy, Eerie); later gives up Creepy and Eerie.
  
• Sep 1983: With issue #503, DC ceases publishing Adventure Comics, which had been running continuously since November 1938.
  
• Oct 1983: House of Mystery, with issue #321, canceled by DC.
  
• Oct 1983: American Flagg! published by First Comics.
  
• Nov 1983: Walt Simonson makes his debut as writer/artist on Thor with issue #337; introduces Beta Ray Bill.
  
• 1983: DC Comics acquires most of Charlton's superhero characters (includes Blue Beetle, Captain Atom, The Question).
  
• Jan 1984: Alan Moore takes over writing responsibilities for Saga of the Swamp Thing title with issue #20.
  
• May 1984: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 published by Mirage Studios.
  
• May 1984: Marvel launches the Secret Wars; includes the introduction of a Spider-Man black suit in issue #8.
  
• Nov 1984: Albedo Anthropomorphics #2 contains Stan Sakai’s “The Goblin of Adachigahara”, introducing Usagi Yojimbo.
  
• 1984: Antarctic Press, Continuity Comics, Deluxe Comics, Matrix Graphic Series, and Renegade Press launch comic publication.
  

[500Club]

Most important Copper Age book/run overall is likely TMNT.

 

Pencil me in for the DKR/Watchmen duo. They influenced the whole tone of storytelling in the hobby going forward.

 

Unfortunately.

Yup. Many creators tried to awkwardly ape the tone of these books.

[500Club]

 

What about Byrne's FF, Claremont & Smith's X-MEN, Wolfman & Perez's New Teen Titans. Miller's Daredevil or Simonson's Thor? Those are the books that I would show people as the creme de la creme of the copper era.

We have similar tastes, so, of course I agree with all of these picks.

 

Importance, though... that's a different issue.

[NinjaSealed]

 

What about Byrne's FF, Claremont & Smith's X-MEN, Wolfman & Perez's New Teen Titans. Miller's Daredevil or Simonson's Thor? Those are the books that I would show people as the creme de la creme of the copper era.

We have similar tastes, so, of course I agree with all of these picks.

 

Importance, though... that's a different issue.

 

Well, you made just about every point I would of made so thanks.

 

I will concede that they are they defining books of the late copper age versus the whole copper age, but like it or not McFarlane Spidey is what defines the later copper age and had the most influence on the beginning of the modern age in a variety of ways. Obviously not even close to the crème of the crop of the CA.

 

I always feel the books that get forgotten about the most is the new teen titans Wolfman Perez run.

[Prince Namor]

It's a shame that the people who are floating back into the hobby are the one's who bought into the hype of Wizard the first time around and for some reason are nostalgic about it.

Those issues of ASM started off ok, because they had a quality writer (David Micheline), but somewhere along the way Todd's art took over the book.

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

[NinjaSealed]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

[Prince Namor]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I'm looking forward to meeting Ron Frenz and Tom DeFalco this weekend in Baltimore. That's the last time I really truly enjoyed ASM as a monthly book to read.

[seanfingh]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

[Kevin76]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Sal Buscema and JRJR have the worst looking styles I've seen, McFarlane was different, had a lot more energy to it and a style that was never seen before. The bigger eyes, the webbing and the quirky poses were just awesome. Most artist through out Marvel and even today, just keep lying down what has already been done...If Jim Lee does one more group shot where everyone is standing around posing....I'm going to take my own life!! Mcfarlane was ground breaking at the time, Artists now are highly detailed, lots of thin lines, where do you think that all started??

[Prince Namor]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Sal Buscema and JRJR have the worst looking styles I've seen, McFarlane was different, had a lot more energy to it and a style that was never seen before. The bigger eyes, the webbing and the quirky poses were just awesome. Most artist through out Marvel and even today, just keep lying down what has already been done...If Jim Lee does one more group shot where everyone is standing around posing....I'm going to take my own life!! Mcfarlane was ground breaking at the time, Artists now are highly detailed, lots of thin lines, where do you think that all started??

 

Not with McFarlane.

George Perez, Art Adams, Mike Golden all before Todd.

[Prince Namor]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Agreed. Would not even begin to question that his take on it wasn't 'fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.'

But to be remembered as the best comics of the Copper Age? That I can't agree with.

[Logan510]

 

What about Byrne's FF, Claremont & Smith's X-MEN, Wolfman & Perez's New Teen Titans. Miller's Daredevil or Simonson's Thor? Those are the books that I would show people as the creme de la creme of the copper era.

We have similar tastes, so, of course I agree with all of these picks.

 

Importance, though... that's a different issue.

 

Important how?

 

If you define importance by it's crossover appeal it would have to be DKR. More than any other project from that era it was hyped outside of the insular world of comicbooks.

 

I loved DKR at the time and it still holds a spot in my heart, but it was an aberation. I'm not sure I would show it to a civilian as an example of the best that superhero comics had to offer during the copper age though.

[Logan510]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Sal Buscema and JRJR have the worst looking styles I've seen, McFarlane was different, had a lot more energy to it and a style that was never seen before. The bigger eyes, the webbing and the quirky poses were just awesome. Most artist through out Marvel and even today, just keep lying down what has already been done...If Jim Lee does one more group shot where everyone is standing around posing....I'm going to take my own life!! Mcfarlane was ground breaking at the time, Artists now are highly detailed, lots of thin lines, where do you think that all started??

 

Not with McFarlane.

George Perez, Art Adams, Mike Golden all before Todd.

 

 

I just had a deja vu moment, taking me back to the old LCS and trying to show / explain to younger / newer readers that Todd did not invent the pencil.

[Logan510]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Agreed. Would not even begin to question that his take on it wasn't 'fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.'

But to be remembered as the best comics of the Copper Age? That I can't agree with.

 

When I think of Todd's art during that period I think of a comment JB made. He said if Todd ever learned to draw he would become a force in the industry.

[kimik]

What about Byrne's FF, Claremont & Smith's X-MEN, Wolfman & Perez's New Teen Titans. Miller's Daredevil or Simonson's Thor? Those are the books that I would show people as the creme de la creme of the copper era.

 

It depends on when you consider the Copper Age as starting for some of these. For example, is Miller's classic DD run a CA or late BA book?

 

In the case of FF, the property had waned so badly by that point did anyone care?

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

What about Byrne's FF, Claremont & Smith's X-MEN, Wolfman & Perez's New Teen Titans. Miller's Daredevil or Simonson's Thor? Those are the books that I would show people as the creme de la creme of the copper era.

 

It depends on when you consider the Copper Age as starting for some of these. For example, is Miller's classic DD run a CA or late BA book?

 

In the case of FF, the property had waned so badly by that point did anyone care?

 

 

Yes, they cared. For those of us who want something entertaining to read it meant a lot.

Millers DD and Byrne's FF (both CA) picked up readership because the combination of story, art and ideas were in direct contrast to the rehash of concepts those books had become. (Though JB obviously benefitted from having done x-Men).

 

With all of the examples, there are specific issues that are remembered as great 'stories'. With McFarlane it's always about great covers or the neat art or a cool new villain. He was geared toward creating a collectible item, not a great comic book story. He bought into that completely.

 

There's nothing wrong with loving a comic because it has a cool cover, or it makes you remember a time and place in the past. Nostalgia has driven this hobby forever. But those books are loved because he had a cool, tremendously popular art style that he worked hard to create.

To call them the best comics of the Copper Age seems short sighted to me.

 

[seanfingh]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Agreed. Would not even begin to question that his take on it wasn't 'fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.'

But to be remembered as the best comics of the Copper Age? That I can't agree with.

 

When I think of Todd's art during that period I think of a comment JB made. He said if Todd ever learned to draw he would become a force in the industry.

 

Whoomp, there it is.

[Logan510]

IMO, It's importance is in that it changed the way comics were made for the worst.

 

 

 

I would think most feel the same way.

 

I don't. McFarlane's Spidey was fun and exciting. With all the Frenz/Sal Buscema/Saviuk Spider-Man, Todd's take was fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.

 

Agreed. Would not even begin to question that his take on it wasn't 'fresh and crazy, and totally not the straight forward Marvel approved style.'

But to be remembered as the best comics of the Copper Age? That I can't agree with.

 

When I think of Todd's art during that period I think of a comment JB made. He said if Todd ever learned to draw he would become a force in the industry.

 

Whoomp, there it is.

 

It makes a lot of sense. His art had a lot of energy, there's no denying that. There's also no denying that his anatomy or faces weren't very good and he used a ton of lines to mask poor drawing as "detail".