CGC grades vs you know who posted by Brian Hartman

[CSJournals-migration]

Make Mine CGC!

 

First Journal entry so please bear with me.

My Amazing Spider-Man 252 had been graded by another company as a 9.4 with ow/w pages. Now while this isn't a bad grade in some eyes others would agree we know our books. What they look like, the feel, any blemishes, etc etc. I know this book. I've owned it for longer than I remember. I could tell you where I bought it. What shirt I had on. The store, what the weather was that day.

I also knew that book was no 9.4 with ow/w pages. Frankly the grade disgusted me.

So the book sat for almost a year and a half at the 9.4. Until last month.

Ron Frenz was appearing at the Pittsburgh comic con. Of course the cracking of the (IMO) poorly graded ASM 252 was a no brainer.

Had the book signed by Mr Frenz and submitted to CGC.

And I'd also like to add while I can, the young ladies at the CGC booth were incredibly kind, patient (Herb Trimpe kept us waiting for a few minutes) and helpful.

Anywho, checked my graded today and saw the book was graded a 9.6 with WHITE pages. I knew in my heart this book was a better grade and page quality and CGC has proven it to be a fact.

Reliable and consistent grading. The reasons I will be using CGC from this day forward. Thank you all at CGC for the fantastic work you do.

 

See more journals by Brian Hartman

[The-Collector]

a 0.2 bump is within the margin of error. you could resub to cgc and get a 9.4 next time.

[Meta4]

I can see the .2 margin of error, what makes me wonder is how it went from ow/w pages to white pages. Hmmmmm.

[bagofleas]

Understand that other companies, like PGX, just don't grade as consistently and properly as CGC does.

 

While CGC HAS made its share of slip ups, they are few and far between.

 

For example, there are a disproportionate amount of 9.9s with PGX. If you take those PGX 9.9s and resubmit them to CGC, you will get 9.8s a good 95% of the time!!

 

Does this mean that CGC is wrong? NO. It just means that CGC is far more accurate with grading standards than PGX or other companies might be.

 

Also, I can't speak for the other companies, but CGC does not use just one grader at a time to grade any particular issue. My understanding is they use a three man system, with a master grader and two apprentice graders, so there is far more scrutiny on the comics with CGC.

 

This can work in both directions when it comes to grades, which is why some PGX graded issues will grade higher with CGC, and some lower.

 

BTW, I'm just using PGX as an example because they are the second most widely used grading company. What I do know is that CGC provides the most consistent grading standards in the industry compared to everyone else, whether you like their policies and materials or not.

 

[joeypost]

a 0.2 bump is within the margin of error. you could resub to cgc and get a 9.4 next time.

I have had straight resubs go from 9.0 to 9.8. No joke.

[Ronnylama]

I have opened 3 9.9 PGX books I bought on ebay (kept the label) and submitted to CGC for 9.8....consistent? Yes Overgraded? Indeed

[mysterio]

I wonder what the ratio would be if you cracked CGC 9.9s and resubmitted them to CGC. I'd bet that the vast majority would come back 9.8.

[bagofleas]

I'd bet that 95% of them would retain 9.9.

 

Anyone who cracks open a CGC 9.9 or Gem Mint 10 should have their head examined anyway.

 

 

 

[mysterio]

I'd bet that 95% of them would retain 9.9.

 

Anyone who cracks open a CGC 9.9 or Gem Mint 10 should have their head examined anyway.

 

 

 

 

So 95% will retain the grade, but its insane to crack one? I'm not sure I follow.

[Ronnylama]

I did only once and took a chance. My Alpha Flight 9.9 CGC and got 2 sigs on it with a 9.9 SS....Scared me but my head was exaMINED

[SW3D]

Congrats on your first journal.

 

Interesting what you wrote. I have no idea what could contribute to the grading differences... but that is sweet getting a higher grade and better page quality!

 

SW3D

[Bomber-Bob]

Understand that other companies, like PGX, just don't grade as consistently and properly as CGC does.

 

Does this grading look consistent and proper to you ?

 

[bagofleas]

Trust me, I've had numerous opportunities to have MY head examined.

 

 

I've seen cases where cracking a 9.9 to get a sig led to the issue getting SS 9.8 before. It is UBER risky, even with the 95% working for you, but if it comes through for you, getting a SS 9.9 is AMAZING!! I love Ronnylama's Alpha flight #1 !!

 

[Garlanda]

Bear in mind that the grades provided by comics grading services are not guaranteed to be universally, unanimously acclaimed as accurate. They are intended to be an impartial third-party grader to facilitate comic sales. My definition of 'near mint' is almost certainly different from anyone else's, even if we're both using the Overstreet grading guide. Grading comics (or coins, baseball cards, etc) is so subjective. A glossy cover with sharp colors is more important to me than cover alignment. Neither trait is firmly defined, but I might like a particular book more than you do and thus grade it higher. Is that speck a production flaw or damage? Were these books miscut at the printer or trimmed in my basement? To reduce these kinds of arguments and price haggling, we agree to accept the grade applied by an impartial third party.

 

I feel the only difference between the big two graders, CGC and PGX, is their impartiality and I have seen enough anecdotal evidence to doubt that in the case of PGX. My personal choice to do or not do business. Plus, I like the registry and census.

[meshuggah]

Bear in mind that the grades provided by comics grading services are not guaranteed to be universally, unanimously acclaimed as accurate. They are intended to be an impartial third-party grader to facilitate comic sales. My definition of 'near mint' is almost certainly different from anyone else's, even if we're both using the Overstreet grading guide. Grading comics (or coins, baseball cards, etc) is so subjective. A glossy cover with sharp colors is more important to me than cover alignment. Neither trait is firmly defined, but I might like a particular book more than you do and thus grade it higher. Is that speck a production flaw or damage? Were these books miscut at the printer or trimmed in my basement? To reduce these kinds of arguments and price haggling, we agree to accept the grade applied by an impartial third party.

 

I feel the only difference between the big two graders, CGC and PGX, is their impartiality and I have seen enough anecdotal evidence to doubt that in the case of PGX. My personal choice to do or not do business. Plus, I like the registry and census.

 

(thumbs u

 

There are quite a few threads on the general comics tab of people documenting how shady PGX is. They are definitely worth anyones time to read into.

[SW3D]

Looks like the 9.6 may have been pressed which would explain the apparent cover shrinkage.

 

I am not a fan of pressing... although I understand its uses and acceptance in the hobby, I prefer to keep comics as is. I firmly believe pressing deserves a restoration label or a label all its own. This will allow for greater transparency and answers to why certain comics go through grade changes.

 

What I don't get is the fanatical need to take a 9.2 and get it to a 9.6. A 50 year old comic that achieves a fantastic grade of 9.2 should be more than enough... but to push it to a 9.6 all comes down to Dollars and Sense and less about collecting for collecting's sake.

 

And I fear, since pressing is mostly another money-making avenue, pressing in the wrong hands will ultimately have a negative impact in the hobby entirely. But that is just my opinion.

 

Thanks for sharing the scan.

 

SW3D

 

[Jeffro.]

Reliable and consistent grading. The reasons I will be using CGC from this day forward. Thank you all at CGC for the fantastic work you do.

 

Understand that other companies, like PGX, just don't grade as consistently and properly as CGC does.

 

While CGC HAS made its share of slip ups, they are few and far between.

 

There is no question that CGC is a more reputable company than PGX. That fact is not in dispute. However, the comments above illustrate that far too many people put far too much trust in grading companies.

 

Yes, mistakes happen and no one is perfect but "slip ups few and far between"? Anyone who's been on the boards as long as four years should know that this is not true.

 

However, they are the only game in town so the choice really comes down to slab or not slab. It would be nice to have other options.

[Garlanda]

 

What I don't get is the fanatical need to take a 9.2 and get it to a 9.6. A 50 year old comic that achieves a fantastic grade of 9.2 should be more than enough... but to push it to a 9.6 all comes down to Dollars and Sense and less about collecting for collecting's sake.

 

 

I agree with your assessment of pressing high-grade books into even higher-grade books. I submitted my first four books for pressing by CCS and grading by CGC at Baltimore Comic Con. I selected only those books that I thought could benefit from pressing, ie displayed some of the pressable defects like minor spine stresses, slightly blunted corners, non-color-breaking folds, and/or light dirt. I would have graded them all in the 6.5-8.0 range, and hope they will enjoy a boost of about 1 whole point. I do state for the record that I will identify them as having been pressed once (I'm pretty sure they were never pressed before I acquired them) in the CGC Registry description, and post them here when they finally get back.

 

For the good of the comics themselves and the hobby in general, perhaps we should start a thread identifying books that have been pressed and how many times? Kind of like an alternate census? It's generally accepted that multiple pressings can endanger the comic, but there's no way to tell if a book has been pressed once, twice, or six times. I may buy a comic that has never been pressed to try to squish into a higher grade state, but probably not if I know it has already been squished twice and will not likely get any better. I doubt this will be a popular or reliable resource, since the unscrupulous will always sell their 8.0s with "good candidate for pressing!" in the auction description, but at least we can try. Thoughts?

[Bomber-Bob]

Looks like the 9.6 may have been pressed which would explain the apparent cover shrinkage.

 

I am not a fan of pressing... although I understand its uses and acceptance in the hobby, I prefer to keep comics as is. I firmly believe pressing deserves a restoration label or a label all its own. This will allow for greater transparency and answers to why certain comics go through grade changes.

 

What I don't get is the fanatical need to take a 9.2 and get it to a 9.6. A 50 year old comic that achieves a fantastic grade of 9.2 should be more than enough... but to push it to a 9.6 all comes down to Dollars and Sense and less about collecting for collecting's sake.

 

And I fear, since pressing is mostly another money-making avenue, pressing in the wrong hands will ultimately have a negative impact in the hobby entirely. But that is just my opinion.

 

Thanks for sharing the scan.

 

SW3D

 

(thumbs u Sounds like you and I share the same mindset about things.

Unfortunately, anyone can buy a press and have it. However, it seems like a certain experienced presser has elevated his game so that we are now seeing numerous examples of these shrunken covers. Sad.

[mysterio]

I'd bet that 95% of them would retain 9.9.

 

Anyone who cracks open a CGC 9.9 or Gem Mint 10 should have their head examined anyway.

 

 

 

 

Trust me, I've had numerous opportunities to have MY head examined.

 

 

I've seen cases where cracking a 9.9 to get a sig led to the issue getting SS 9.8 before. It is UBER risky, even with the 95% working for you, but if it comes through for you, getting a SS 9.9 is AMAZING!! I love Ronnylama's Alpha flight #1 !!

 

 

Still confused. 95% seems like a reasonably sure thing, so why would this also be UBER (all caps needed) risky? If 19 out of 20 cracked 9.9s will not drop in grade, it would seem there isn't much to worry about.