LCS Using eBay as a Price Guide

[dupont2005]

Sure, it would seem like that to those who don't understand the realities of the retail business. Not putting you down, many people don't understand those realities, even those IN retail, which is why they fail.

Just because I'm not a comic flipper on eBay doesn't mean I don't know a thing about retail. I am a business owner. It's not generating enough revenue to pay the bills yet, so I also have a 9-to-5, but I am turning a five figure profit annually.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sure, it would seem like that to those who don't understand the realities of the retail business. Not putting you down, many people don't understand those realities, even those IN retail, which is why they fail.

Just because I'm not a comic flipper on eBay doesn't mean I don't know a thing about retail. I am a business owner. It's not generating enough revenue to pay the bills yet, so I also have a 9-to-5, but I am turning a five figure profit annually.

 

Oh, come on, now. You tacitly admitted you didn't understand the principle of the optimal utilization of square footage, and that's one of the basics of the retail business, especially as it relates to storefronts.

 

And make no mistake: not knowing the realities of the retail business is not equivalent to not knowing anything at all about it. Everyone who opens up a retail business has to know something...but unfortunately, many critical details are unlearned, which is why many go out of business.

 

Do you have a storefront...? I am a business owner, but I am not in retail. I don't necessarily sell to consumers, though a good part of my business is. Do you sell merchandise to consumers?

[dupont2005]

Sure, it would seem like that to those who don't understand the realities of the retail business. Not putting you down, many people don't understand those realities, even those IN retail, which is why they fail.

Just because I'm not a comic flipper on eBay doesn't mean I don't know a thing about retail. I am a business owner. It's not generating enough revenue to pay the bills yet, so I also have a 9-to-5, but I am turning a five figure profit annually.

 

Oh, come on, now. You tacitly admitted you didn't understand the principle of the optimal utilization of square footage, and that's one of the basics of the retail business, especially as it relates to storefronts.

No, I didn't. Lets say the LCS blew through it's entire inventory of back issues at pennies on the dollar. Lets say he came out slightly ahead on purchase price, and now he has a ton of free floorspace. What does he do with it now?

 

 

Every comic shop I've ever been in worked on the idea of pretty much marking all their back issues up to about 400% of going rate online and letting them sit until a sucker comes in. I don't spend enough time in comic shops to know how often the back issues move, but I've bought from there before, knowing I was overpaying, because I was bored, because I just wanted one comic instead of putting in a large online order, for whatever reason. When I go into my LCS I see someone browsing the back issue bins about 50% of the time. Do they buy anything? I don't know. But I can't imagine you understand running a comic shop better than every person who runs a comic shop I've ever seen or heard of though.

 

Some people like to sit on inventory until they get the right price. I do it with my silver, you do it with your comics. Sometimes we just want to get rid of our junk, which is what I did with my comics, but not how I'd imagine a retail outlet would operate. I actually sold a fair chunk of that collection to a record store who wanted a permanent comic book back issue department in their store. I doubt they're in a hurry to blow through the product, although if someone wanted to come in and give them 400% over retail for the entire thing I doubt they'd pass it up. I think in that record store, as well as in an LCS, where something other than back issues keeps the bills paid, the back issue bins are there just to entice people to come in. Even if they don't sell, having rows and rows of comics in longboxes on a table in the center of the store will get me to walk in. Maybe the customer buys a handful, maybe he buys some of the new stock from off the walls, maybe he opens a pull list. The back issue bins seem to be an accessory to make the store look more complete, but if they can make $20 out of one then that's not bad either.

 

I agree the shop didn't handle things correctly, but I disagree that the correct thing to do was knowingly sell a stack of $20 comics for pennies on the dollar.

[500Club]

But I can't imagine you understand running a comic shop better than every person who runs a comic shop I've ever seen or heard of though.

 

Sadly, based on his (RMAs) posts, and what I see of LCSs business practices, it may be possible.

[500Club]

 

I agree the shop didn't handle things correctly, but I disagree that the correct thing to do was knowingly sell a stack of $20 comics for pennies on the dollar.

Nowhere in the sage posts of RMA, DG, and October was this suggested. Rather, the gist of the statements is that LCSs need to find the optimal intersection between opportunity cost and margin.

 

My gut says $6-$8 was probably the number in this case.

[dupont2005]

 

I agree the shop didn't handle things correctly, but I disagree that the correct thing to do was knowingly sell a stack of $20 comics for pennies on the dollar.

Nowhere in the sage posts of RMA, DG, and October was this suggested. Rather, the gist of the statements is that LCSs need to find the optimal intersection between opportunity cost and margin.

 

My gut says $6-$8 was probably the number in this case.

I think it was suggested in RMA's post. That if the store owner bought it for $1.50, and it sat unsold for some several months, then $2 is not only a profit but it frees up floorspace.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sure, it would seem like that to those who don't understand the realities of the retail business. Not putting you down, many people don't understand those realities, even those IN retail, which is why they fail.

Just because I'm not a comic flipper on eBay doesn't mean I don't know a thing about retail. I am a business owner. It's not generating enough revenue to pay the bills yet, so I also have a 9-to-5, but I am turning a five figure profit annually.

 

Oh, come on, now. You tacitly admitted you didn't understand the principle of the optimal utilization of square footage, and that's one of the basics of the retail business, especially as it relates to storefronts.

No, I didn't.

 

Sure you did. You said "Does getting rid of the comic somehow make their storage costs go down? Is the lease based on number of back issues in his bin?"

 

Those questions demonstrated that you didn't understand the basic principle of optimized utilization of square footage in retail.

 

It's not that big a deal that you didn't. As I said, many, many comic store owners don't understand this basic principle.

 

Lets say the LCS blew through it's entire inventory of back issues at pennies on the dollar. Lets say he came out slightly ahead on purchase price, and now he has a ton of free floorspace. What does he do with it now?

 

He buys more merchandise to sell! That's the point of business! He now has working capital that he didn't have before, which is the lifeblood of business!

 

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

 

It's like Sit n' Sleep, which has advertised for decades that "we'll beat anyone's advertised price, or your mattress is FREEEEEE!"

 

Sounds good, right? Do you think ANYONE has EVER gotten a FREE mattress..? Of course not! They just beat the price!

 

"Let's see, my price is $495, the store down the street has an advertised price for $395...well, sorry, I can't beat that, so here's your free mattress!"

 

No, they simply offer it to you for $390! What's better for them? $390 or FREE?

 

 

Every comic shop I've ever been in worked on the idea of pretty much marking all their back issues up to about 400% of going rate online and letting them sit until a sucker comes in. I don't spend enough time in comic shops to know how often the back issues move, but I've bought from there before, knowing I was overpaying, because I was bored, because I just wanted one comic instead of putting in a large online order, for whatever reason. When I go into my LCS I see someone browsing the back issue bins about 50% of the time. Do they buy anything? I don't know. But I can't imagine you understand running a comic shop better than every person who runs a comic shop I've ever seen or heard of though.

 

 

Let's not keep up this silly hyperbole you've been posting. No one said "all" or "every" or "none" or any of the other hyperbolic statements you're claiming have been made. It's pointless, and does not advance the discussion.

 

"A lot of people don't understand the realities of the retail market"

 

"So you're saying you understand better than every person I've ever seen or heard of?"

 

"Um. No. I didn't say anything like that. You made that up, and then attributed it to me. That's called a "strawman argument."

 

Let's avoid that, huh?

 

Some people like to sit on inventory until they get the right price. I do it with my silver, you do it with your comics. Sometimes we just want to get rid of our junk, which is what I did with my comics, but not how I'd imagine a retail outlet would operate. I actually sold a fair chunk of that collection to a record store who wanted a permanent comic book back issue department in their store. I doubt they're in a hurry to blow through the product, although if someone wanted to come in and give them 400% over retail for the entire thing I doubt they'd pass it up. I think in that record store, as well as in an LCS, where something other than back issues keeps the bills paid, the back issue bins are there just to entice people to come in. Even if they don't sell, having rows and rows of comics in longboxes on a table in the center of the store will get me to walk in. Maybe the customer buys a handful, maybe he buys some of the new stock from off the walls, maybe he opens a pull list. The back issue bins seem to be an accessory to make the store look more complete, but if they can make $20 out of one then that's not bad either.

 

And here is one of the exceptions that makes the rule: if those back issues are BAIT, and their sole function is to get eyeballs into the store that wouldn't normally come in, that is a legitimate retail strategy. Just like having a copy of Fantasy #15 in the display case, priced at a crazy price. It's not there to sell...it's there as bait. That's a legitimate exception, and there's nothing wrong with that....provided the OTHER merchandise actually sells.

 

But I will say this again: no retail establishment that relies on that business as their sole income (ie, they're not a millionaire with a hobby) can sit on everything until they "find the right buyer." Overhead will eat them alive, and they "may" scrape by...but they will never be successful.

 

I agree the shop didn't handle things correctly, but I disagree that the correct thing to do was knowingly sell a stack of $20 comics for pennies on the dollar.

 

Again...how many "pennies on the dollar" are you referring to? Because 95 pennies on the dollar means they are pricing that book at $19. If they can get $19 each for that "$20" comic, they're doing pretty damn well!

[RockMyAmadeus]

But I can't imagine you understand running a comic shop better than every person who runs a comic shop I've ever seen or heard of though.

 

Sadly, based on his (RMAs) posts, and what I see of LCSs business practices, it may be possible.

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Another key point is properly marketing the product in a store. I'm not talking about buying ads. Retailer set things up, they see dead spots on their floor space and they do nothing about it. What are people coming to see? In most stores it's the new comics every week. Those should be placed in the back of the store so that the entire shop gets floor traffic. You want people to walk past high markup products that are impulse items. Items that appeal to small kids should be placed at eye level so that they look up and say "Mommy, I want this." Mature or adult themed stuff should be placed at an adult's eye level so that it gets viewed by the target audience. Are wall books even getting viewed? Set them up so there is something to pull their eyes in that direction. Too many shop owners are clueless about marketing. If you can't coax a shopper into looking at what you have, it doesn't matter how many ads you place or how many deals you give.

 

Many years ago, when I worked in retailing at a grocery store, the grocery manager wanted me to manage the deliveries we got from one supplemental warehouse. He warned me that our store was small and we had to place a minimum order of 60 cases in order for them to ship the product we need. He urged me to not over order and said that we were ordering 60 cases every two weeks. I resented the restrictions and immediately started reviewing the shelf space and presentation of the materials. I reset all the sections to optimize the visibility of the product. I discontinued items that weren't selling. I added rows to things that were. I put color breaks between things that blended together on the shelves. If green beans were next to green peas, I put carrots between them. The end result was that I freed myself of the restrictions. We went from ordering 60 cases every two weeks to 240 cases per week.

 

If you are not analyzing every little thing that works and doesn't work, you are letting the customers walk away without spending money they would have been happy to spend.

 

Sometimes you have to rearrange things just to get them looking again. It's a constant tweaking process.

 

DG

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I agree the shop didn't handle things correctly, but I disagree that the correct thing to do was knowingly sell a stack of $20 comics for pennies on the dollar.

Nowhere in the sage posts of RMA, DG, and October was this suggested. Rather, the gist of the statements is that LCSs need to find the optimal intersection between opportunity cost and margin.

 

My gut says $6-$8 was probably the number in this case.

I think it was suggested in RMA's post. That if the store owner bought it for $1.50, and it sat unsold for some several months, then $2 is not only a profit but it frees up floorspace.

 

No, that's not what I suggested...read the posts again.

 

 

[joecgcmaniac]

Another key point is properly marketing the product in a store. I'm not talking about buying ads. Retailer set things up, they see dead spots on their floor space and they do nothing about it. What are people coming to see? In most stores it's the new comics every week. Those should be placed in the back of the store so that the entire shop gets floor traffic. You want people to walk past high markup products that are impulse items. Items that appeal to small kids should be placed at eye level so that they look up and say "Mommy, I want this." Mature or adult themed stuff should be placed at an adult's eye level so that it gets viewed by the target audience. Are wall books even getting viewed? Set them up so there is something to pull their eyes in that direction. Too many shop owners are clueless about marketing. If you can't coax a shopper into looking at what you have, it doesn't matter how many ads you place or how many deals you give.

 

Many years ago, when I worked in retailing at a grocery store, the grocery manager wanted me to manage the deliveries we got from one supplemental warehouse. He warned me that our store was small and we had to place a minimum order of 60 cases in order for them to ship the product we need. He urged me to not over order and said that we were ordering 60 cases every two weeks. I resented the restrictions and immediately started reviewing the shelf space and presentation of the materials. I reset all the sections to optimize the visibility of the product. I discontinued items that weren't selling. I added rows to things that were. I put color breaks between things that blended together on the shelves. If green beans were next to green peas, I put carrots between them. The end result was that I freed myself of the restrictions. We went from ordering 60 cases every two weeks to 240 cases per week.

 

If you are not analyzing every little thing that works and doesn't work, you are letting the customers walk away without spending money they would have been happy to spend.

 

Sometimes you have to rearrange things just to get them looking again. It's a constant tweaking process.

 

DG

 

This is where grocery stores succeed and comic shops usually fail. There is a reason the milk, meat sections, and pharmacies are usually at the back of the store. They know people need those items, so they'll walk through the whole store to get to them. Along the way they see items they want, but don't necessarily need to survive, and they'll pick those up also. The cherry on the sundae is the impulse items at the registers. Every step of the way, grocery stores have pretty much figured out how to lay out merchandise within the store for maximum effect.

 

A comic shop owner that properly utilized these techniques would vastly outsell, and make way more profit, than the shop owner who just puts the new releases right up front, with no rhyme, reason, or flow to how the rest of the shop is set-up.

[dupont2005]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Here's something to platform off of DG's post: never, and I mean NEVER, EVER have merchandise out of the reach of customers, unless you have absolutely no intention of selling it.

 

House of Secrets in Burbank is a CLASSIC example of this: they have back issues hanging on the wall literally up to the ceiling. A buyer who is interested in one of those books on the top row has to bother a clerk (and believe me...many, many people don't want to bother just to LOOK, especially if the store is busy...and they never will again if they get even a WHIFF of the clerk being put out.)

 

If the store is busy, and it sometimes is, and I want that Superbook #237, but I have to wait for a clerk to be free, and then ask him to grab a ladder, and then have him hand me the book, and then it's not in the condition I want, and then he has to put it back? And then REPEAT this process??

 

FORGET it.

 

Anything out of reach of customers should be examples that are easily visible even at height (like posters for which condition isn't a factor), or store fixtures or items that aren't for sale (like store artwork.)

 

Never, ever ever, ever make a customer have to ask for help. If you must, keep the "expensive stuff" in a display case, and make the staff man that display case the second someone shows any interest in it. If they ask to see every single item in that display case, do it: it's not skin off the clerk's neck. Never, ever, ever show even a whiff of "being put out", even if the customer buys nothing...because you never know when a customer is just comparing and making a decision. If you make it difficult on that customer in any way, they will simply take their money elsewhere.

 

This thread should be renamed "101 Ways To Run A Successful Comic Shop"

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

 

Exact is GOOD.

 

And who said anything about a "stack"? The original sample was THREE books, which doesn't a stack make.

 

And "$20 books for $2 each" wasn't my suggestion...it was Tony S'.

 

But the point remains: Is that book a legitimate $20 book on eBay? (Answer for the original example: no, not now.)

 

If it's not, what IS it, and what is the average price it would take to sell all six copies that the retailer had? (About $12/copy. Some will sell for more, and as supply increases, demand decreases, and price goes down, so some will sell for less.)

 

And if it's an avg of $12 for all six, and it costs roughly $7 to do all the work necessary to make that $12, what do you have? About $5/book, which I suspect the buyer would have been happy to pay.

 

And that doesn't even include the fact that the buyer was willing to buy THREE copies, and selling three copies for $5/ea would have prevented all that work to make that same $5, labor that can then be diverted to more productive endeavors.

 

$5/ea for three copies, with almost no time or effort? Or $5/ea for six copies, with a couple hours worth of time and effort into it? Which has more value?

 

But at the end of the day, if the seller has a buyer who wants to pay $2, and the seller paid 25 cents for it, that $2 is real, actual money, which can be put back to work...and the stuff hasn't sold for years...sell it.

 

Unsold eBay listings don't pay the rent.

[500Club]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

Exactly.

 

Neither the "$20" or "$2" was meant to be precise examples.

[joecgcmaniac]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

I'm assuming the $2 was an example, and an exaggerated one at that, and not a 'carved in stone' suggestion of magnitude of discount. He could have said $3, or $4, or... or...

 

It was simply an illustration of the overall point of having cash flow from inventory vs no cash flow.

 

To put this line in real world terms: Wal-Mart vs. JCPenney.

 

Wal-Mart turns over inventory at an extraordinary rate. Penney's is drowning in months old inventory.

 

Wal-Mart can use the money they make from their inventory turnover for more purchases and bonuses. Penney's is drowning in quicksand, partly due to their inability to turnover inventory.

 

Successful comic shops will turn over their back stock, shops going down in flames will be sitting on tons of boxes of unpriced and unorganized books.

[october]

 

And here is one of the exceptions that makes the rule: if those back issues are BAIT, and their sole function is to get eyeballs into the store that wouldn't normally come in, that is a legitimate retail strategy. Just like having a copy of Fantasy #15 in the display case, priced at a crazy price. It's not there to sell...it's there as bait. That's a legitimate exception, and there's nothing wrong with that....provided the OTHER merchandise actually sells.

 

Sometimes. "Bait" or "museum books" can cut both ways. They may serve as a draw to get customers in the door, but they can also be a turnoff depending on the craziness of the price point. If I walk into a shop, or up to a booth at a show, and see keys priced at a multiple of the going rate I generally don't bother to dig much further. If a $100 wall book is priced at $300 it's reasonable to expect the rest of the back issues, or at least the rest of the good back issues, to follow suit. On the other hand, an AF 15 on the wall can legitimize a dealer or store, and show that they have at least some interesting things to offer a serious back issue collector. Pricing a big key at a bit over market value probably gets the best of both worlds. Pricing it at double likely turns off as many serious buyers as it brings through the doors.

[dupont2005]

And I said this before, I'll say it again: "pennies on the dollar" is a propaganda advertising cliché that has absolutely no real meaning. Again: 99 pennies on the dollar is still "pennies on the dollar", is it not?

We wouldn't be disagreeing if we were talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $15 each, but we're talking about him selling a stack of $20 comics for $2 each. That is pennies on the dollar. Ten pennies to be exact.

 

Exact is GOOD.

 

And who said anything about a "stack"? The original sample was THREE books, which doesn't a stack make.

 

And "$20 books for $2 each" wasn't my suggestion...it was Tony S'.

 

But the point remains: Is that book a legitimate $20 book on eBay? (Answer for the original example: no, not now.)

 

If it's not, what IS it, and what is the average price it would take to sell all six copies that the retailer had? (About $12/copy. Some will sell for more, and as supply increases, demand decreases, and price goes down, so some will sell for less.)

 

And if it's an avg of $12 for all six, and it costs roughly $7 to do all the work necessary to make that $12, what do you have? About $5/book, which I suspect the buyer would have been happy to pay.

 

And that doesn't even include the fact that the buyer was willing to buy THREE copies, and selling three copies for $5/ea would have prevented all that work to make that same $5, labor that can then be diverted to more productive endeavors.

 

$5/ea for three copies, with almost no time or effort? Or $5/ea for six copies, with a couple hours worth of time and effort into it? Which has more value?

 

But at the end of the day, if the seller has a buyer who wants to pay $2, and the seller paid 25 cents for it, that $2 is real, actual money, which can be put back to work...and the stuff hasn't sold for years...sell it.

 

Unsold eBay listings don't pay the rent.

Except it wouldn't cost $12 to sell a $20 comic. Shipping falls on the buyer, he should have plenty of packaging materials laying around, and his employees are paid hourly. They're not getting paid piece work. When they aren't doing one thing, have them do another thing. That thing could be listing the comic, packaging the comic, dropping the comic off at the post office. Yeah, he's getting paid to do it, but the alternative is he's getting paid to do nothing, and it would cost the shop owner the exact same to sell the comic for $20 as it would to sell it for $5.

[dupont2005]

 

And here is one of the exceptions that makes the rule: if those back issues are BAIT, and their sole function is to get eyeballs into the store that wouldn't normally come in, that is a legitimate retail strategy. Just like having a copy of Fantasy #15 in the display case, priced at a crazy price. It's not there to sell...it's there as bait. That's a legitimate exception, and there's nothing wrong with that....provided the OTHER merchandise actually sells.

 

Sometimes. "Bait" or "museum books" can cut both ways. They may serve as a draw to get customers in the door, but they can also be a turnoff depending on the craziness of the price point. If I walk into a shop, or up to a booth at a show, and see keys priced at a multiple of the going rate I generally don't bother to dig much further. If a $100 wall book is priced at $300 it's reasonable to expect the rest of the back issues, or at least the rest of the good back issues, to follow suit. On the other hand, an AF 15 on the wall can legitimize a dealer or store, and show that they have at least some interesting things to offer a serious back issue collector. Pricing a big key at a bit over market value probably gets the best of both worlds. Pricing it at double likely turns off as many serious buyers as it brings through the doors.

That's true. If I see a comic shop's wall comics as being a bunch of worthless 90's drek with $50 pricetags I'm likely to not spend much time looking in their bins. But to be honest, I have only found one shop in the past 5 years that actually had deals to be found in their bins.