Collectibility and Investment of Copper/Modern CGC books?

[joecgcmaniac]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

I glad you haven't had any issues with the Joe figures yet. Yet. If you have them long enough, you will. (thumbs u

[Buzzetta]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

You mentioned that AFA Joes are sitting as support of your views on the 'rule of 25'

I offered you a reason as have others that MOC Joes sit, not due to a fallacy with the 'rule of 25' but because they break and are not worth the investment.

You probably did not consider that did you?

 

Others have mentioned that the Joes on card also tend to break. Some have second accounts of this while a few have posted first hand accounts pertaining to their own MOC Joes.

 

Your quote

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

You mention that the total lack of demand is an excellent counter to the "so called rule of 25 theorists". I am telling you once again, as have others, that the lack of demand for AFA graded Joes has a lot to do with the brittleness of the construction of the actual toy. Sealed or not, on the bubble or off, Joes are susceptible to breaking due to interior problems with the construction. Knowledgable Joe collectors are fully aware of this and have not been leaping to throw down the money due to, as another member stated, an unwillingness to play Russian Roulette.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Westy Steve]

Hey, I don't know anything about G.I. Joes, but I have something to add about the 25 year rule.

 

From my experience, I've seen comics that people wanted in their teens get hot about 10 years later after "kids" get through college, get established, and then find they have a little extra money in their pocket. IMHO, (emphisis on "humble" and "opinion"), 25 years is a long time. The 15 year olds don't wait until they are 40 to fill that void anymore. I think they do it sooner. I think the concept is sound, but the timeline seems longish to me.

 

A counter-argument could be that 25 years gives your average Dad just enough time for the kids to move out and then he's got some spare cash lying around. I can see that argument, but people are staying single longer and getting their toys before they get married and have kids these days.

[joecgcmaniac]

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

Just my opinion.

 

There are a number of GI Joe collectors, myself included, that will not touch anything GI Joe AFA. The brittle plastic that was made for the Real American Hero Line (1982-1994) combined with the O-Ring structure lead many to fear that basic deterioration of the inner structure of the O-Ring would allow a $500 AFA graded figure to become worthless if that O-Ring snaps while the figure is sealed the card. GI Joe is an outlier in that equation.

 

One of a few threads raising the concern:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/4124-o-ring-discussion-thread.html

 

Broken figure from brittle plastic while still sealed to the card:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/200443-afa-question.html

 

Thread I started - asking about it:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-vintage-discussion/73152-question-longevity-vintage-moc-joes.html

 

There are a LOT more over there

 

 

This comment from the first thread hit the nail on the head:

 

When it comes to AFA graded toys, I pretty much only buy Transformers because I know there are no O-rings holding the toy together that will eventually snap and destroy the entire investment. When it comes to AFA graded G.I.Joe figures, I am truly at a loss for words when I see collectors hand over huge amounts of money for AFA graded figures when they know full well that soon their investment will be nothing but a graded pile of body parts sealed in a plexi-glass case. I personally only own one AFA graded Joe figure and it did not cost me very much money at all. If you want to spend crazy amounts of money on those ticking time bombs, then more power to ya. But don't say i didn't warn you when those time bombs explode, or in other words, when those little 5 cent O-rings snap.

[ComicConnoisseur]

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

Just my opinion.

 

There are a number of GI Joe collectors, myself included, that will not touch anything GI Joe AFA. The brittle plastic that was made for the Real American Hero Line (1982-1994) combined with the O-Ring structure lead many to fear that basic deterioration of the inner structure of the O-Ring would allow a $500 AFA graded figure to become worthless if that O-Ring snaps while the figure is sealed the card. GI Joe is an outlier in that equation.

 

One of a few threads raising the concern:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/4124-o-ring-discussion-thread.html

 

Broken figure from brittle plastic while still sealed to the card:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/200443-afa-question.html

 

Thread I started - asking about it:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-vintage-discussion/73152-question-longevity-vintage-moc-joes.html

 

There are a LOT more over there

 

 

This comment from the first thread hit the nail on the head:

 

When it comes to AFA graded toys, I pretty much only buy Transformers because I know there are no O-rings holding the toy together that will eventually snap and destroy the entire investment. When it comes to AFA graded G.I.Joe figures, I am truly at a loss for words when I see collectors hand over huge amounts of money for AFA graded figures when they know full well that soon their investment will be nothing but a graded pile of body parts sealed in a plexi-glass case. I personally only own one AFA graded Joe figure and it did not cost me very much money at all. If you want to spend crazy amounts of money on those ticking time bombs, then more power to ya. But don't say i didn't warn you when those time bombs explode, or in other words, when those little 5 cent O-rings snap.

Transformers rule! (thumbs u

One of the best examples of the rule of 25.

They have been mega hot since 2007,after being lukewarm in the 1990s.

Now they are maybe one of the best future investments out there in the collectibles field?

[RedL]

I know a lot of the focus has been on Deadpool being a 'new' character, but what about a newer book of an old fav like ASM300, 252 etc?

[B-Smooth]

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

Just my opinion.

 

There are a number of GI Joe collectors, myself included, that will not touch anything GI Joe AFA. The brittle plastic that was made for the Real American Hero Line (1982-1994) combined with the O-Ring structure lead many to fear that basic deterioration of the inner structure of the O-Ring would allow a $500 AFA graded figure to become worthless if that O-Ring snaps while the figure is sealed the card. GI Joe is an outlier in that equation.

 

One of a few threads raising the concern:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/4124-o-ring-discussion-thread.html

 

Broken figure from brittle plastic while still sealed to the card:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/200443-afa-question.html

 

Thread I started - asking about it:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-vintage-discussion/73152-question-longevity-vintage-moc-joes.html

 

There are a LOT more over there

 

 

This comment from the first thread hit the nail on the head:

 

When it comes to AFA graded toys, I pretty much only buy Transformers because I know there are no O-rings holding the toy together that will eventually snap and destroy the entire investment. When it comes to AFA graded G.I.Joe figures, I am truly at a loss for words when I see collectors hand over huge amounts of money for AFA graded figures when they know full well that soon their investment will be nothing but a graded pile of body parts sealed in a plexi-glass case. I personally only own one AFA graded Joe figure and it did not cost me very much money at all. If you want to spend crazy amounts of money on those ticking time bombs, then more power to ya. But don't say i didn't warn you when those time bombs explode, or in other words, when those little 5 cent O-rings snap.

I've been interested in buying an '84 Storm Shadow in a real high AFA grade. I will not be buying one now. It's a shame, because I've always wanted one. Maybe the prices of AFA Joes will crash to the point where graded carded figures won't kill the wallet?

[joecgcmaniac]

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

Just my opinion.

 

There are a number of GI Joe collectors, myself included, that will not touch anything GI Joe AFA. The brittle plastic that was made for the Real American Hero Line (1982-1994) combined with the O-Ring structure lead many to fear that basic deterioration of the inner structure of the O-Ring would allow a $500 AFA graded figure to become worthless if that O-Ring snaps while the figure is sealed the card. GI Joe is an outlier in that equation.

 

One of a few threads raising the concern:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/4124-o-ring-discussion-thread.html

 

Broken figure from brittle plastic while still sealed to the card:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-general-discussion/200443-afa-question.html

 

Thread I started - asking about it:

http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-joe-toys-vintage-discussion/73152-question-longevity-vintage-moc-joes.html

 

There are a LOT more over there

 

 

This comment from the first thread hit the nail on the head:

 

When it comes to AFA graded toys, I pretty much only buy Transformers because I know there are no O-rings holding the toy together that will eventually snap and destroy the entire investment. When it comes to AFA graded G.I.Joe figures, I am truly at a loss for words when I see collectors hand over huge amounts of money for AFA graded figures when they know full well that soon their investment will be nothing but a graded pile of body parts sealed in a plexi-glass case. I personally only own one AFA graded Joe figure and it did not cost me very much money at all. If you want to spend crazy amounts of money on those ticking time bombs, then more power to ya. But don't say i didn't warn you when those time bombs explode, or in other words, when those little 5 cent O-rings snap.

I've been interested in buying an '84 Storm Shadow in a real high AFA grade. I will not be buying one now. It's a shame, because I've always wanted one. Maybe the prices of AFA Joes will crash to the point where graded carded figures won't kill the wallet?

 

Oh they'll crash all right. Right after the figure falls apart on the card. It's a somewhat gradual process too. At first, the figure stands tall in the bubble. Just the figure will gradually start "leaning" to either the left or the right. Later, the figure will be in a heap at the bottom of the bubble, the o-ring having finally given out, at which time the figure can no longer stand on it's own.

 

Look at loose Joe figures from the 80's. They used to stand up just fine. The first sign that the ring is going in the loose figures is that the waist and legs seem "loose". They'll kind of give out when trying to stand the figure up. When you remove the screw from the figures back, the o-ring will no longer be round, but rather oval, having been stretched out and brittle to the point that it will no longer return to its original round shape. Once a figure reaches that point, it's just a matter of time before it comes apart.

 

The o-rings can be found on e-bay for rather cheap, and with practice, it doesn't take much time to change out a worn ring for a new one. Loose figures can be repaired, but carded figures? Not so much, hence, why so many collectors are terrified to put money into them.

[CGCboy]

I know a lot of the focus has been on Deadpool being a 'new' character, but what about a newer book of an old fav like ASM300, 252 etc?

 

Always loved the Venom and Punisher team up issues!

[mintcollector]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

You mentioned that AFA Joes are sitting as support of your views on the 'rule of 25'

I offered you a reason as have others that MOC Joes sit, not due to a fallacy with the 'rule of 25' but because they break and are not worth the investment.

You probably did not consider that did you?

 

Others have mentioned that the Joes on card also tend to break. Some have second accounts of this while a few have posted first hand accounts pertaining to their own MOC Joes.

 

Your quote

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

You mention that the total lack of demand is an excellent counter to the "so called rule of 25 theorists". I am telling you once again, as have others, that the lack of demand for AFA graded Joes has a lot to do with the brittleness of the construction of the actual toy. Sealed or not, on the bubble or off, Joes are susceptible to breaking due to interior problems with the construction. Knowledgable Joe collectors are fully aware of this and have not been leaping to throw down the money due to, as another member stated, an unwillingness to play Russian Roulette.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did. Once again, you seem to miss the point. Substitute G.I. Joe for any of the other many vintage toy lines that are doing horrid on the secondary market and you will understand my point. Twelve inch G.I. Joes are also doing poorly right now. Last time I checked they don't have an o-ring. Battle Beasts are not doing so well; even AFA graded examples are not immune. POTF 2 figures and anything past the original POTF line in Star Wars is pretty much dead space and always will be (way too much supply). Even the original TMNT line; albeit several pieces that are uncommon. I am sorry but I do not consider holding a toy from 1989 that I paid between $5-$10 for until the year 2013; paying storage on it, paying to get it graded, and then attempting to possibly sell it for a ten to twenty dollar profit a good deal. I personally can do much better in the financial markets. You also told me at what point on this forum that the Lego Death Star was out of production. These are horrid investments to buy as well. What is stopping Lego from re-releasing any set they already released before? This is what is starting to hurt the Lego market and why so many people are dumping these sets..

 

Let me ask you something, how many comic books are released on a monthly basis and actually how many will be worth more than their current cover price within 25 years time? Go back 25 years and count how many comic books are selling well above their current cover price. Not many.

 

PS: I would not call paying several thousand dollars for a Transformer toy a good investment right now. These only did well because few were saved due to what amounted to a high retail price. These are also the outlier and not the rule. Other items priced this high are very common from this time period. I proceed this theory with my massive find of vintage sealed NES games that I sold off over the years at a hefty profit; thanks in part to a speculative market that never fully developed.

[Buzzetta]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

You mentioned that AFA Joes are sitting as support of your views on the 'rule of 25'

I offered you a reason as have others that MOC Joes sit, not due to a fallacy with the 'rule of 25' but because they break and are not worth the investment.

You probably did not consider that did you?

 

Others have mentioned that the Joes on card also tend to break. Some have second accounts of this while a few have posted first hand accounts pertaining to their own MOC Joes.

 

Your quote

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

You mention that the total lack of demand is an excellent counter to the "so called rule of 25 theorists". I am telling you once again, as have others, that the lack of demand for AFA graded Joes has a lot to do with the brittleness of the construction of the actual toy. Sealed or not, on the bubble or off, Joes are susceptible to breaking due to interior problems with the construction. Knowledgable Joe collectors are fully aware of this and have not been leaping to throw down the money due to, as another member stated, an unwillingness to play Russian Roulette.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did. Once again, you seem to miss the point. Substitute G.I. Joe for any of the other many vintage toy lines that are doing horrid on the secondary market and you will understand my point. Twelve inch G.I. Joes are also doing poorly right now. Last time I checked they don't have an o-ring. Battle Beasts are not doing so well; even AFA graded examples are not immune. POTF 2 figures and anything past the original POTF line in Star Wars is pretty much dead space and always will be (way too much supply). Even the original TMNT line; albeit several pieces that are uncommon. I am sorry but I do not consider holding a toy from 1989 that I paid between $5-$10 for until the year 2013; paying storage on it, paying to get it graded, and then attempting to possibly sell it for a ten to twenty dollar profit a good deal. I personally can do much better in the financial markets. You also told me at what point on this forum that the Lego Death Star was out of production. These are horrid investments to buy as well. What is stopping Lego from re-releasing any set they already released before? This is what is starting to hurt the Lego market and why so many people are dumping these sets..

 

Let me ask you something, how many comic books are released on a monthly basis and actually how many will be worth more than their current cover price within 25 years time? Go back 25 years and count how many comic books are selling well above their current cover price. Not many.

 

PS: I would not call paying several thousand dollars for a Transformer toy a good investment right now. These only did well because few were saved due to what amounted to a high retail price. These are also the outlier and not the rule. Other items priced this high are very common from this time period. I proceed this theory with my massive find of vintage sealed NES games that I sold off over the years at a hefty profit; thanks in part to a speculative market that never fully developed.

 

 

 

No, I am not missing the point. I get your point. I am telling you that one of the examples that you use to support your point is wrong. (GASP) Try to take this in. You used an example of AFA Joes. Others and myself are telling you that as collectors we stay away from AFA Joes due to certain issues. You used Starduster as a reference. Yeah, good luck with that. You purchased a more sought after, higher end, RAH Joe MOC graded by AFA. Even at half guide, I would not sink any money into it unless I was going to immediately flip it due to the reasons that others and myself have articulated to you. YOU are missing what we are saying. Your use of AFA RAH Joes is a poor choice to support your example since there are other factors that you apparently failed to consider or perhaps did not even know.

 

When I mentioned that the Lego Death Star (a year ago?) I mentioned that I stashed one as I considered it one of the greatest sets ever made. I bought an extra copy for a love of the set. If it ever gets to a point where it is worth something, that's cool. If it doesn't, then I am cool with that too. At the time, when I was asked, the Lego employee, at the store, in Roosevelt Field Mall, Long Island (I know you like particulars) told me that the piece was ending production. I figured, "why not" since I got it on sale and with their double points at the time. I was wrong. Apparently it was not at the end of the production. Do I look at it as an investment? Not really, because I would not mind keeping the sucker.

 

Though Mint, you seem to have this "thing" in this thread. Can you ever admit if you are wrong? You have a lot to offer with what you contribute and I have learned a lot. However when someone disagrees with you, it seems that they are met with long winded and brow-beating posts. But, come on now. In this case you are missing what we are saying, or simply ignore or dismiss it for what I can only assume here is because you did not consider it yourself that when you went out and spent some money.

 

Those of us that responded to you about the Joes. We get the point you are trying to make. That not everything adheres to the theorized 'rule of 25'. We simply told you that an example you used had nothing to do with it. Get over it. You missed something. Move on or learn from it. We get it, all of us. You are a self proclaimed collecting god. You constantly tell us. Collecting God, apparently you missed something. It comes across as pompous at times.

 

To answer your other question, I could not tell you. I only buy current books that I enjoy reading like a TV show I enjoy to watch.

 

Kind regards right back

 

'Buzz'

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

You mentioned that AFA Joes are sitting as support of your views on the 'rule of 25'

I offered you a reason as have others that MOC Joes sit, not due to a fallacy with the 'rule of 25' but because they break and are not worth the investment.

You probably did not consider that did you?

 

Others have mentioned that the Joes on card also tend to break. Some have second accounts of this while a few have posted first hand accounts pertaining to their own MOC Joes.

 

Your quote

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

You mention that the total lack of demand is an excellent counter to the "so called rule of 25 theorists". I am telling you once again, as have others, that the lack of demand for AFA graded Joes has a lot to do with the brittleness of the construction of the actual toy. Sealed or not, on the bubble or off, Joes are susceptible to breaking due to interior problems with the construction. Knowledgable Joe collectors are fully aware of this and have not been leaping to throw down the money due to, as another member stated, an unwillingness to play Russian Roulette.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did. Once again, you seem to miss the point. Substitute G.I. Joe for any of the other many vintage toy lines that are doing horrid on the secondary market and you will understand my point. Twelve inch G.I. Joes are also doing poorly right now. Last time I checked they don't have an o-ring. Battle Beasts are not doing so well; even AFA graded examples are not immune. POTF 2 figures and anything past the original POTF line in Star Wars is pretty much dead space and always will be (way too much supply). Even the original TMNT line; albeit several pieces that are uncommon. I am sorry but I do not consider holding a toy from 1989 that I paid between $5-$10 for until the year 2013; paying storage on it, paying to get it graded, and then attempting to possibly sell it for a ten to twenty dollar profit a good deal. I personally can do much better in the financial markets. You also told me at what point on this forum that the Lego Death Star was out of production. These are horrid investments to buy as well. What is stopping Lego from re-releasing any set they already released before? This is what is starting to hurt the Lego market and why so many people are dumping these sets..

 

Let me ask you something, how many comic books are released on a monthly basis and actually how many will be worth more than their current cover price within 25 years time? Go back 25 years and count how many comic books are selling well above their current cover price. Not many.

 

PS: I would not call paying several thousand dollars for a Transformer toy a good investment right now. These only did well because few were saved due to what amounted to a high retail price. These are also the outlier and not the rule. Other items priced this high are very common from this time period. I proceed this theory with my massive find of vintage sealed NES games that I sold off over the years at a hefty profit; thanks in part to a speculative market that never fully developed.

I can understand at what your alluding to, but in my opinion

The Rule of 25 is what the Transformers is about, not Sectaurs or Inhumanoids.

Stuff that was numero uno with children and teens, not stuff that had mediocre results.

That is why the early Mario and Zelda video games are good bets, and not Saboteur like videogames that didn`t make a impact on popular culture..

Other examples are look to the golden age where

Batman, and Superman ruled,and not The Red Bee.

Upcoming big bets that will have a resurrection do to the rule of 25.

 

 

but perhaps the biggest will be

 

[Rodey]

I hope this rule applies to all this Phantom Menace I have lying around

[ComicConnoisseur]

I hope this rule applies to all this Phantom Menace I have lying around

It will never happen because it was hoarded by adults.

Kids were buying Pokémon and Power Rangers stuff when the adults where hoarding that Star Wars Phantom Menace stuff in the 1990s.

 

[mintcollector]

I just put up a couple more links - one of which mentions a broken figure on the card and asking what that figure will receive from AFA if they send it in.

 

Believe what you want, it happens. If it happens to you don't be upset when you have a rag doll of a figure on a sealed card.

 

 

Just to be clear o-rings are not the reason why GI Joe prices are down. By that logic, no one would collect anything, There is risk in anything you buy. Post vintage SW bubbles (after 21 backs) are more prone to yellowing; yet people are currently paying thousands for some of the later releases and I will not. I stopped at the just 21 and the rarities.

 

The ideology that all items become collectible after twenty five years is a fallacy; as was my original point. There are a gazillion product lines that languish on the after market. Just to name a few, Muppet Babies, Captain Power, Tales from the Crypt, Star Gate, and the like have not kept pace with inflation overall; let alone the cost of storage and maintenance. There are many toys and related items that I breathe a sigh of relief that I was not of those unfortunate fools who paid for a Rubbermaid tub to store items in which the tote is now worth more.

 

And my point it...

 

Part of the reason....

 

That people are staying away from AFA....

 

For Vintage GI Joe Figures...

 

Is that...

 

The figures are made of....

 

Cheap plastic...

 

Over time...

 

They are prone...

 

To breaking...

 

Even on the card...

 

Broken figure is more obvious and a detriment to a buyer than a bubble that starts to yellow over time. That slightly yellow bubble may be perceived as the buyer as part of the grade.

 

No one wants a broken toy.

 

Not quite sure why you have chosen to respond in this regard, but once again my simple point was about the market as a whole. The market is not governed by collectors who are afraid to buy something due to the item in question (i.e. vintage 1980's G.I. Joe figures) having possibly faulty o-rings. By that logic there are a lot of toy lines that would be in trouble and even other collectibles that would not even be collected en masse. As I stated, I have been collecting high end AFA items since 2006/2007 and never had an issue. Recently I pad $250 for an AFA 85 Starduster and an AFA graded (85) PayLoad (uncirculated grade) from the Defiant Shuttle Complex. I attempted to get a hold of a Cobra Commander mail in, but the seller claimed he 'lost the item.' Could it be due to the fact that the item only sold for $70? Hmm...unfortunately, I will never know.

 

Just know that the o-rings ARE a big reason a lot of collector's stay away not only from AFA graded G.I. Joe figures from the 80's, but carded Joes from that time period in particular. Many a collector have witnessed first hand their well-cared for carded Joes falling apart in the sealed bubble, all because the o-ring became brittle and fell apart. It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.

 

I had a full box of Joe figures have their torsos separate from their waist because the o-rings became brittle and the figure came apart. Well cared for or not, the o-rings are a ticking time bomb with those figures.

 

As far as the other toy lines? Not many of them constructed their figures with the o-ring holding the figure together like the Joe line did. Star Wars didn't, He-Man didn't. Transformers? Nope. In this instance, the Joes were unique.

 

You like buying the graded carded figures, well that's good. Just don't freak out when pieces you bought for hundreds of dollars become customizer fodder. (thumbs u

 

Anybody buying carded Joe figures from the 80's is playing Russian roulette as far as their "investment" is concerned. If they were the figures you bought off the shelf back in the day, you won't have as much to lose. But if you're paying current prices, you playing with fire.

 

Thanks Joe,

 

I made it nice and easy for him to digest what I am saying. I appreciate someone else articulating the point. I have a couple of AFA SW figures tucked away for my personal collection but I stay away from the Joes for this very reason. Even when I have wanted to go big and saw a great deal on an AFA Joe that I really wanted (Recondo if anyone wants to know - Clutch and Recondo were my first Joes), the O-ring business kept me away. As you said, buying AFA graded Joes is basically Russian roulette.

 

And this shows that you had no exactly what I was referring to.

 

In your own logic...

 

My point had NOTHING to do with O-rings or...

 

construction of a figure or toy line...

 

it could have been MASK or Battle Beasts noted in my reference...

 

instead of GI Joe toys.

 

My point was simply to indicate that not all vintage toy lines were experiencing spectacular returns due to the fallacy of the 'rule of 25.' That was all. I understand quite well about toy construction (thank you) and as stated; NEVER had an issue with this line in particular.

 

 

You mentioned that AFA Joes are sitting as support of your views on the 'rule of 25'

I offered you a reason as have others that MOC Joes sit, not due to a fallacy with the 'rule of 25' but because they break and are not worth the investment.

You probably did not consider that did you?

 

Others have mentioned that the Joes on card also tend to break. Some have second accounts of this while a few have posted first hand accounts pertaining to their own MOC Joes.

 

Your quote

In explication, I just started collecting AFA graded GI Joe toys and I am actually amazed at the total lack of demand for some of these items. Aside from some other heavy hitters like me most of these items are overpriced and just sitting on eBay. This is an excellent example to counter the so called 'rule of 25' theorists who believe that within twenty five years everything will be sought after and increase in value. Ironically, vintage Star Wars toys continue to be on the rise; while the later POTF 2 figures just sit gathering dust. Just some observations.

 

You mention that the total lack of demand is an excellent counter to the "so called rule of 25 theorists". I am telling you once again, as have others, that the lack of demand for AFA graded Joes has a lot to do with the brittleness of the construction of the actual toy. Sealed or not, on the bubble or off, Joes are susceptible to breaking due to interior problems with the construction. Knowledgable Joe collectors are fully aware of this and have not been leaping to throw down the money due to, as another member stated, an unwillingness to play Russian Roulette.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I did. Once again, you seem to miss the point. Substitute G.I. Joe for any of the other many vintage toy lines that are doing horrid on the secondary market and you will understand my point. Twelve inch G.I. Joes are also doing poorly right now. Last time I checked they don't have an o-ring. Battle Beasts are not doing so well; even AFA graded examples are not immune. POTF 2 figures and anything past the original POTF line in Star Wars is pretty much dead space and always will be (way too much supply). Even the original TMNT line; albeit several pieces that are uncommon. I am sorry but I do not consider holding a toy from 1989 that I paid between $5-$10 for until the year 2013; paying storage on it, paying to get it graded, and then attempting to possibly sell it for a ten to twenty dollar profit a good deal. I personally can do much better in the financial markets. You also told me at what point on this forum that the Lego Death Star was out of production. These are horrid investments to buy as well. What is stopping Lego from re-releasing any set they already released before? This is what is starting to hurt the Lego market and why so many people are dumping these sets..

 

Let me ask you something, how many comic books are released on a monthly basis and actually how many will be worth more than their current cover price within 25 years time? Go back 25 years and count how many comic books are selling well above their current cover price. Not many.

 

PS: I would not call paying several thousand dollars for a Transformer toy a good investment right now. These only did well because few were saved due to what amounted to a high retail price. These are also the outlier and not the rule. Other items priced this high are very common from this time period. I proceed this theory with my massive find of vintage sealed NES games that I sold off over the years at a hefty profit; thanks in part to a speculative market that never fully developed.

 

 

 

No, I am not missing the point. I get your point. I am telling you that one of the examples that you use to support your point is wrong. (GASP) Try to take this in. You used an example of AFA Joes. Others and myself are telling you that as collectors we stay away from AFA Joes due to certain issues. You used Starduster as a reference. Yeah, good luck with that. You purchased a more sought after, higher end, RAH Joe MOC graded by AFA. Even at half guide, I would not sink any money into it unless I was going to immediately flip it due to the reasons that others and myself have articulated to you. YOU are missing what we are saying. Your use of AFA RAH Joes is a poor choice to support your example since there are other factors that you apparently failed to consider or perhaps did not even know.

 

When I mentioned that the Lego Death Star (a year ago?) I mentioned that I stashed one as I considered it one of the greatest sets ever made. I bought an extra copy for a love of the set. If it ever gets to a point where it is worth something, that's cool. If it doesn't, then I am cool with that too. At the time, when I was asked, the Lego employee, at the store, in Roosevelt Field Mall, Long Island (I know you like particulars) told me that the piece was ending production. I figured, "why not" since I got it on sale and with their double points at the time. I was wrong. Apparently it was not at the end of the production. Do I look at it as an investment? Not really, because I would not mind keeping the sucker.

 

Though Mint, you seem to have this "thing" in this thread. Can you ever admit if you are wrong? You have a lot to offer with what you contribute and I have learned a lot. However when someone disagrees with you, it seems that they are met with long winded and brow-beating posts. But, come on now. In this case you are missing what we are saying, or simply ignore or dismiss it for what I can only assume here is because you did not consider it yourself that when you went out and spent some money.

 

Those of us that responded to you about the Joes. We get the point you are trying to make. That not everything adheres to the theorized 'rule of 25'. We simply told you that an example you used had nothing to do with it. Get over it. You missed something. Move on or learn from it. We get it, all of us. You are a self proclaimed collecting god. You constantly tell us. Collecting God, apparently you missed something. It comes across as pompous at times.

 

To answer your other question, I could not tell you. I only buy current books that I enjoy reading like a TV show I enjoy to watch.

 

Kind regards right back

 

'Buzz'

 

Point #1: You are aware that the original first release of Starduster never came MOC as it was a mail away exclusive. This is a loose uncirculated figure with file card. AFA encases these in plastic large compartment cases much like the infamous Sears mailer pack of the Blue Snaggletooth and Greedo set are slabbed.

 

Point #2: I hardly consider $250 to be high end for anything; let alone a toy.

 

Point #3: I never proclaimed to be a collecting God as you suggest. I am merely attempting to illustrate an alternate viewpoint among those who are overexposed to speculation and ill-fated advice. I can tell you first hand that there are three key ingredients in building wealth; invest in what you know (i.e. stay within your 'circle of competence'); know the difference between an asset and liability, and learn to take calculated risks.

 

 

[spreads]

Hey fellas, the thread is titled, "Collectibility and Investment of Copper/Modern CGC books?", not 'Hardcore G.I. Joe Toy Talk'.

 

[mintcollector]

I hope this rule applies to all this Phantom Menace I have lying around

It will never happen because it was hoarded by adults.

Kids were buying Pokémon and Power Rangers stuff when the adults where hoarding that Star Wars Phantom Menace stuff in the 1990s.

 

Games like Mario and Zelda are not 'investments.' I am not sure what you are referring to when you reference this.These games have been reproduced multiple times and continue to be made to this day. Just to state an interesting fact; when I discovered the multiple factory sealed NES game lot back in the early 2000's (that put my video game business on the map) I had more than fifty to one hundred copies of Zelda and Mario 1 (among many others). Back in 2007/2008 and earlier; I was getting $1500+ for each of these in VGA 85. Today, you would not get anywhere near that for Super Mario (Zelda is hit and miss, but not worth $1500 in my opinion). The market and price just isn't there. Check completed auctions on eBay under video games and watch completed sales. Super Mario is lucky to hit $1200 and that is on a Buy It Now in 85. I have seen completed auctions go as low as $800 to $1000. Just to put this in perspective, I sold a lot of these games to several dealers for well more than that many years ago. The market is not there today in my opinion.

 

Loose examples are even worse. Again, this medium is subject to the fate of emulation by Nintendo itself. Like my twenty one year old nephew says; 'You are aware I can just download that for $5.00, right?' It is a speculative market at worst and a fickle one at best. I would never put any kind of major money in this realm and I have a personal collection of 10,000 vintage games that I enjoy. These are not 'investments' and I question why anyone would place a collectible like this on their personal balance sheet (aside from a business owner placing inventory under assets). I either bought these games at retail back in the day or were part of several factory sealed 'hordes' I discovered over the years. I paid ten dollars for all my factory sealed NES games and I bought cases of the stuff; clearing out a wholesaler who did not know what to do with them at a time when these were just unnecessary inventory. Atari 2600 and 7800 games I got less than $1 each at one time from a distributor in Kansas City. Atari games crashed and burned; yet collectors do exist (myself included). I remember selling games like Chase the Chuckwagon, Crazy Climber, among others for $100 + (cart only). Today, these bring a lot less. There is nothing driving demand in this area. The market crashed in 2006 and never came back. You can pick up an Atari Flashback console for $40 and enjoy many of the rare Atari 2600 prototypes. This is the final nail in the coffin for Atari; aside from few collectors who covet the stuff and always will.

 

As for your analysis as to buying what is popular, the problem with that issue is a lot of things that were once popular do not sell well. Look at Captain Power; Muppet Babies, Beanie Babies, PEZ, Sega Genesis games, etc. You will spend a great portion of your time attempting to follow trends when there are a TON of what I consider to be already great antique and collecting categories that will and have been exploding. If flipping is your thing; by all means do it. You only have to track what is selling now and there is no inventory to worry about; assuming you are selling what you buying at a quick turn over rate. However, we are talking about investing for the long term. Toys R Us does not sell ‘investments’; they sell toys. Your local comic book store sells a great collection of art and stories combined in a mass produced package, but as an investment; I would question that.

[AstuteObservation-migratio]

Hey fellas, the thread is titled, "Collectibility and Investment of Copper/Modern CGC books?", not 'Hardcore G.I. Joe Toy Talk'.

 

Yeah, I'd also like to hear MintCollector's views on the "Collectibility and Investment of Copper/Modern CGC books", with specific examples.

[Buzzetta]

 

Yes, I did. Once again, you seem to miss the point. Substitute G.I. Joe for any of the other many vintage toy lines that are doing horrid on the secondary market and you will understand my point. Twelve inch G.I. Joes are also doing poorly right now. Last time I checked they don't have an o-ring. Battle Beasts are not doing so well; even AFA graded examples are not immune. POTF 2 figures and anything past the original POTF line in Star Wars is pretty much dead space and always will be (way too much supply). Even the original TMNT line; albeit several pieces that are uncommon. I am sorry but I do not consider holding a toy from 1989 that I paid between $5-$10 for until the year 2013; paying storage on it, paying to get it graded, and then attempting to possibly sell it for a ten to twenty dollar profit a good deal. I personally can do much better in the financial markets. You also told me at what point on this forum that the Lego Death Star was out of production. These are horrid investments to buy as well. What is stopping Lego from re-releasing any set they already released before? This is what is starting to hurt the Lego market and why so many people are dumping these sets..

 

Let me ask you something, how many comic books are released on a monthly basis and actually how many will be worth more than their current cover price within 25 years time? Go back 25 years and count how many comic books are selling well above their current cover price. Not many.

 

PS: I would not call paying several thousand dollars for a Transformer toy a good investment right now. These only did well because few were saved due to what amounted to a high retail price. These are also the outlier and not the rule. Other items priced this high are very common from this time period. I proceed this theory with my massive find of vintage sealed NES games that I sold off over the years at a hefty profit; thanks in part to a speculative market that never fully developed.

 

 

 

No, I am not missing the point. I get your point. I am telling you that one of the examples that you use to support your point is wrong. (GASP) Try to take this in. You used an example of AFA Joes. Others and myself are telling you that as collectors we stay away from AFA Joes due to certain issues. You used Starduster as a reference. Yeah, good luck with that. You purchased a more sought after, higher end, RAH Joe MOC graded by AFA. Even at half guide, I would not sink any money into it unless I was going to immediately flip it due to the reasons that others and myself have articulated to you. YOU are missing what we are saying. Your use of AFA RAH Joes is a poor choice to support your example since there are other factors that you apparently failed to consider or perhaps did not even know.

 

When I mentioned that the Lego Death Star (a year ago?) I mentioned that I stashed one as I considered it one of the greatest sets ever made. I bought an extra copy for a love of the set. If it ever gets to a point where it is worth something, that's cool. If it doesn't, then I am cool with that too. At the time, when I was asked, the Lego employee, at the store, in Roosevelt Field Mall, Long Island (I know you like particulars) told me that the piece was ending production. I figured, "why not" since I got it on sale and with their double points at the time. I was wrong. Apparently it was not at the end of the production. Do I look at it as an investment? Not really, because I would not mind keeping the sucker.

 

Though Mint, you seem to have this "thing" in this thread. Can you ever admit if you are wrong? You have a lot to offer with what you contribute and I have learned a lot. However when someone disagrees with you, it seems that they are met with long winded and brow-beating posts. But, come on now. In this case you are missing what we are saying, or simply ignore or dismiss it for what I can only assume here is because you did not consider it yourself that when you went out and spent some money.

 

Those of us that responded to you about the Joes. We get the point you are trying to make. That not everything adheres to the theorized 'rule of 25'. We simply told you that an example you used had nothing to do with it. Get over it. You missed something. Move on or learn from it. We get it, all of us. You are a self proclaimed collecting god. You constantly tell us. Collecting God, apparently you missed something. It comes across as pompous at times.

 

To answer your other question, I could not tell you. I only buy current books that I enjoy reading like a TV show I enjoy to watch.

 

Kind regards right back

 

'Buzz'

 

Point #1: You are aware that the original first release of Starduster never came MOC as it was a mail away exclusive. This is a loose uncirculated figure with file card. AFA encases these in plastic large compartment cases much like the infamous Sears mailer pack of the Blue Snaggletooth and Greedo set are slabbed.

 

Point #2: I hardly consider $250 to be high end for anything; let alone a toy.

 

Point #3: I never proclaimed to be a collecting God as you suggest. I am merely attempting to illustrate an alternate viewpoint among those who are overexposed to speculation and ill-fated advice. I can tell you first hand that there are three key ingredients in building wealth; invest in what you know (i.e. stay within your 'circle of competence'); know the difference between an asset and liability, and learn to take calculated risks.

 

Addressing:

Point #1 - I am very well aware of how it was issued. You are still not following. Even loose, the figures can still 'pop' which is why Joe collectors steer away from AFA graded O-Ring figures. On the card, off the card it does not matter. Why would anyone pay for a high grade figure that may pop and require the owner to take the figure apart and replace the guts?

 

Point #2: You pompous . That is nice for you. You don't consider $250 a lot of money for a toy. For others it is quite a bit. There are Joe collectors that I have met that cannot afford to go above $20 on a figure. In terms of loose figures, $250 is on the high end for ARAH Joes. There are comic book collectors on this forum that for them, $250 is a lot to spend on anything. You really are becoming too full of yourself.

 

Point #3 - Unbelievable. Then follow your own advice and re-read what others and myself have said about the subject that YOU provided as an example for your claims. Then see if you can understand that you did not consider a few thing about your "investments".

 

 

At this point - you want to directly respond... Take it to PM... a couple of the above statements that other members have said in regards to turning this into a GI Joe fight have merit. However, if you want to keep it public, your statements will be met with my response.

 

You have a lot of posts that I find of value. However, it astonishes me that you seemingly cannot deal with the opinions of others and comments that counter your views.

[conditionfreak]

Youse guys crack me up. Too funny.