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Broken slab posts v. posts that CGC never secured before leaving its facility?

Started by Mishmashman,

34 posts in this topic

GIJOEISAWESOME-migration

GIJOEISAWESOME-migration

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label, but there may be different versions that don't.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

Does the color prism effect hurt the value of a book? I just received a few moderns like that.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label, but there may be different versions that don't.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

Does the color prism effect hurt the value of a book? I just received a few moderns like that.

 

No, it's just something people that don't ordinarily handle slabs might react to with concern. I was reselling the book so I just wanted to avoid the 20 questions on whether the oil slick was on the book.

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

But it doesn't change.

 

If two posts are cracked - doesn't how matter how clean or nice the break is - it's an automatic regrade because the book can be slid out & swapped. Which is what Gemma also confirms in the two posts from the Ask CGC section I quoted above.

 

There's absolutely no reason to create any confusion around this issue - it's as straight-forward as they come ...

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

But it doesn't change.

 

If two posts are cracked - doesn't how matter how clean or nice the break is - it's an automatic regrade because the book can be slid out & swapped. Which is what Gemma also confirms in the two posts from the Ask CGC section I quoted above.

 

There's absolutely no reason to create any confusion around this issue - it's as straight-forward as they come ...

 

The quote you copied/pasted states "No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded". Which is entirely different from your assumption that both posts out mean the inner well was removed. As for hanging your argument on two posts needing to be breached for a well swap to occur, you realize you could slide out the inner well if you really wanted to with a single post breach right?

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

But it doesn't change.

 

If two posts are cracked - doesn't how matter how clean or nice the break is - it's an automatic regrade because the book can be slid out & swapped. Which is what Gemma also confirms in the two posts from the Ask CGC section I quoted above.

 

There's absolutely no reason to create any confusion around this issue - it's as straight-forward as they come ...

 

The quote you copied/pasted states "No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded". Which is entirely different from your assumption that both posts out mean the inner well can slide out. As for hanging your argument on two posts needing to be breached for a well swap to occur, you realize you could slide out the inner well if you really wanted to with a single post breach right?

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

Will it help if I repeat myself once more for good measure? If 2 or more corner posts have been cracked, it's a regrade :makepoint:

 

There's no chance whatsoever you could slide a book out with just 1 corner post broken and slide in a new book without both the old & new book getting mangled in the process - which, again, would mean an obvious regrade when it showed up at CGC HQ.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
Maybe misinformed, but I couldn't be any clearer when I asked.

 

The inner well is divided into a recessed well for the book, and a pocket for the label. There is a seam dividing the two areas, and the opening for the label is sealed at the top. In addition, the seams for the right and left cross over the label, so swapping a label would require the top seal opened (breach) and even if you could magically slide it out, there would be residue of the label Tblue, purple, green, yellow) melted on the seam.

 

The need to regrade for what is a pretty obvious way to identify tampering of the inner well sounds like a precaution CGC should take on their own dime.

 

When I crack books out - which I do fairly often - about half the time, the top label slides out easily without having to crack any seals - which is why it's always been the corner posts and not the inner well that's the distinguishing factor between a reholder and a regrade. Well, if we want to be pedantic about it, a book that shows obvious signs of handling damage will also require a regrade (even if the corner posts haven't been broken).

 

Don't really know how much clearer CGC can get on this:

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

-----

 

If book is still sealed in inner well with label would it get same grade and only re holder change?

No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded.

 

----

 

Don't believe me? Crack a book out and send the book in the inner well to CGC - there's no chance whatsoever they'd take it as a reholder.

 

I'm talking strictly about clean post breaks without any mishandling or damage to the comic. On the specific example I'm referring too, I had that colour prism effect which happens when the inner well makes contact with the outer holder, and which looks like gas/oil slick inside the slab.

 

It was near the bottom edge, so I tried to pry open the bottom just wide enough to slide a sheet of paper to separate the well and holder and they popped. So clean I wondered if they had actually been properly sealed in the first place

 

On old label books, the label can be removed if you breathe on it too strong, and yes, on those, there is an opening at the top for the label to slide out.

 

Granted, there are several versions of inner wells, so it's possible the one's I've inspected on new label slabs have a sealed top as well to enclose the label.

 

In any event, when this happened to me, someone at CGC told me it wasn't necessary to regrade just reholder, so it seems to be one of those policies that can change based on different factors.

 

But it doesn't change.

 

If two posts are cracked - doesn't how matter how clean or nice the break is - it's an automatic regrade because the book can be slid out & swapped. Which is what Gemma also confirms in the two posts from the Ask CGC section I quoted above.

 

There's absolutely no reason to create any confusion around this issue - it's as straight-forward as they come ...

 

The quote you copied/pasted states "No, if it is removed from the outer well it must be regraded". Which is entirely different from your assumption that both posts out mean the inner well can slide out. As for hanging your argument on two posts needing to be breached for a well swap to occur, you realize you could slide out the inner well if you really wanted to with a single post breach right?

 

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

Will it help if I repeat myself once more for good measure? If 2 or more corner posts have been cracked, it's a regrade :makepoint:

 

There's no chance whatsoever you could slide a book out with just 1 corner post broken and slide in a new book without both the old & new book getting mangled in the process - which, again, would mean an obvious regrade when it showed up at CGC HQ.

 

You became a member in 2007, so you couldn't possibly have seen the posts by a now banned boardie, which showed photographs and instructions, and which was very quickly pulled. I won't try to repeat what was shared then because to be quite honest, I'm surprised the discussion has gotten this far without posts going poof.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

I think it's safe to say that the official company line is likely as Mike states (quoting Gemma obviously) but there might be extenuating circumstances in some situations.

 

 

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Mishmashman

Mishmashman

Posted
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Posted

When I contacted CGC this morning explaining my slab situation to them, the woman I spoke to on the phone said they couldn't tell me more without my mailing in the book for inspection. She said if there are no signs of tampering (not sure what "signs of tampering" looks like), it's a reholder. Otherwise it's a regrade.

 

I'm not sure what kind of machine is used or how the posts are sealed, but is it possible that during the slab sealing process, the CGC employee who slabbed this book just sealed two of the four posts?

 

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Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted
T

If only one corner post is broken, the book is eligible for the ReHolder service but you must leave the comic in the outer case when it is submitted.

 

I am not certain the the two posts broken is an automatic regrade. It very likely could be a regrade, but I do not think it is an automatic. Your quote above from gemma does NOT say two posts are an automatic regrade. it says if only one post is broken it is eligible for a regrade.

 

I went through the "ask CGC" section to 2003 looking for answers. Here are two other answers that are still less clear.

 

The outer case is sealed using four posts, one in each corner. Sometimes these can break in transit and become loose within the case. CGC will replace the entire casing if the comic is to be submitted for our ReHolder service ($11 plus return shipping).

 

When dealing with a damaged case, you would want to be mindful of the inner well. It is heat sealed all the way around on 4 sides. If any of this seal seems to be breached or not sealed properly, that may be cause for concern. Otherwise, they do break fairly easily, so they often crack or break in shipping, and it is common to get a broken book. We have a New Holder service ($11 per book plus return shipping) where we will check the book and if it is fine, re-encapsulate it at the same grade.

I think that is is simply that CGC inspects the book for both tampering and any damage to the book. If there is any evidence of either or both the book has to be regraded. If two posts are cracked I would still send it in under a reholder first. The worst that can happen is they will say "no - it has to be regraded".

 

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Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted
When I contacted CGC this morning explaining my slab situation to them, the woman I spoke to on the phone said they couldn't tell me more without my mailing in the book for inspection. She said if there are no signs of tampering (not sure what "signs of tampering" looks like), it's a reholder. Otherwise it's a regrade.

 

I'm not sure what kind of machine is used or how the posts are sealed, but is it possible that during the slab sealing process, the CGC employee who slabbed this book just sealed two of the four posts?

 

Not likely at all. But see what I quoted from Gemma above. The posts can come loose in shipment or from handling.

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Tony S

Tony S

Posted
Posted
I just received 10 books from CGC and 3 of them have a post rattling around in them and 1 has 2 posts rolling around in the case.

 

Well, there is a problem. You need to call. I would hope and ask that CGC reholder those for free. I think they will agree. But if not, then file a claim with the shipper for damages.

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