e-bay categories

[scottish]

Hey, no sweat! Things can get mis-read all the time. Glad it was straightened out.

[PovertyRow]

>> Well, when I go to Kroger for groceries I pay and I go home. I owe them nothing more. I am the customer and if anything, they owe me. <<

 

If you really feel that way, then why do you leave feedback for sellers? Or are you saying you don't leave feedback for sellers?

 

 

 

[snizzenfixit]

I leave feedback for sellers as a courtesy, certainly not because I owe it to them.

 

Phil

 

[scottish]

Here's my last say on the subject (barring any name calling from you namby goobers )

 

I think the number one purpose for feedback on eBay is allowing a prospective seller to determine (to themselves - not anyone else) if the buyer is someone they want to do business with.

 

Does a buyer owe a seller feedback? No. Does a seller owe a buyer feedback? No. Courtesy goes both ways. I think once the auction ends and that first contact is made it will make or break the rest of the process. My recent transaction with Notch_Top is a good example. He emailed me a total the same day - I made payment upon receipt. He continually emailed me (not every day, but dang near) asking if I had received the book and to let him know when it had arrived. He didn't leave feedback for me after payment, and in fact, waited for my feedback. Would I do business with him again? As I indicated in other posts - you're darn straight!

 

I used to make payment before I was even contacted by the seller if all the information I needed was available on the auction site. I don't do this anymore since it was rather difficult to get a hold of a couple sellers where I did this so now I wait for contact from them (even if it's a form letter).

 

I agree with Phil that as a rule feedback should be left upon receipt of payment. I'm not a stickler for this and don't expect it from everyone and I don't ignore sellers that don't follow my preferences.

 

I know eBay is a different selling venue from a traditional brick and mortar establishment. Bottom line: Customer is always right. Do you sometimes get buying your goods? Hell yeah! Nature of the business (any business). Just because I have a bad experience with Mr. insufficiently_thoughtful_person after selling to him doesn't mean I'm going to change my entire selling philosophy. As a buyer I do believe that I should treat the seller with the same decorum and respect I receive from him or her. Sadly not all buyers (or sellers) feel this way.

 

I think there is room for both points of view here! If you don't agree with me that's O.K. you're still a great human being and I will not hate you! I can only hope you feel the same. Shew! Thanks for allowing me these few minutes.

[greggy]

Personally, I leave feedback whenever I receive payment on the file. If they choose not to leave feedback when they receive the book, that's their perogrative. All I care about when I make a sale is getting paid. A positive feedback is a bonus. The ones that I hate are the sellers that explicit state that they will not leave feedback unless the buyer leaves positive feedback because they feel that the transaction is not completed until then. They then state that it is the buyer's responsibility to leave feedback first. Mmmm, what happens when the buyer doesn't pay? Are these sellers going to do nothing? I don't think so and I avoid any auctions when seller state this policy. However, many are not as explicit in their policy so you don't know what's happening. Right now, I could really care less if the seller leaves feedback right away. My decision to deal with them further would be based solely on their ability to provide me with a product that is as advertised in a timely manner!

[Joanna]

I look at feedback as a service that should be equally shared by buyer and seller. Who are you serving? The ebay community. As a buyer, I look at a seller's feedback, and that helps me judge whether I want to buy from that seller or not. They're the only clues I have. So as a buyer, if I get good service, I feel it is my obligation to leave good feedback, so that other buyers like myself will know that this is someone to do business with. The same goes for me as a seller. I want to let other sellers know what this buyer is like.

 

Ideally, feedback should not be an ego trip, or a means of revenge, but merely an informational service to the community at large. And when I leave feedback, I think about what I'm saying, trying to capture the transaction in those few words. Was it fast pay, good communication? Those are primo comments for a buyer and what every seller wants to see. Was the item as described, fast shipping, friendly communication? Primo comments for a seller and what I like to see as a buyer.

 

IMO, feedback shouldn't be held hostage (I'll give you yours, if you give me mine), it shouldn't be skipped (by not giving feedback, you're not helping the community), and it should be something to strive for in the positive.

 

I understand that not everyone shares my views, and that's fine. I have no need or compulsion to dictate anyone's behavior but my own. But if you sell to me, I will be honest in my feedback, and will respond as soon as I get the item. If I sell to you, I'll be honest there as well, and will respond when I receive payment (or within a day or so, as sometimes I wait to do a bunch at once). If a buyer beats me to it, I always apologize in an email for having been remiss (no one is perfect, and I'm far from that ideal). Does it bug me when a seller waits for me to give feedback first? To be honest, yes. But not as much as no feedback (though I never fuss over it. Just bugged like a gnat, not a bee). I always do my part, and I expect to be treated with respect.

 

-- Joanna

[scottish]

Said much better than mine! Nice post Joanna!

[snizzenfixit]

It sounds like MOST everybody agrees that the seller SHOULD be leaving feedback first. The differences seem to stem on how it is handled when he/she does not. I choose not to bid on that persons auctions ever again. I absolutely believe that everyone else has the right to handle this in his/her own way though, and would NEVER expect others to refuse to bid on future auctions.

 

Many buyers feel the same way I do and in the end it costs the seller. CI said earlier in this thread something to the effect of "Yeah, refuse to bid on those auctions, leaves more books for me" or something along those lines. That costs the seller, because maybe I would have driven up the bid a few bucks.

 

Phil

 

[PovertyRow]

Well, to me, going to a store and going on ebay are vastly different experiences with very different rules. When you go into a store you do just that: go into a store. It is a physical presence where you can handle and examine items, talk to people, get an immediate reciept etc. In that environment we are in accord.

 

Ebay is a very nebulous environment, very different from brick and concrete. Policing is almost non-existent. Legal recourse is difficult at best. While most of the sellers and buyers are good ones, there are sellers trying to scam and there are also buyers trying to scam.

 

It is basically left to Feedback to help police ebay and alert others to potential bad sellers and bad buyers. In this environment, no one is automaically owed anything.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Right now, I could really care less if the seller leaves feedback right away. My decision to deal with them further would be based solely on their ability to provide me with a product that is as advertised in a timely manner!

 

Well said Greggy, and that's all I really care about on EBay; either providing or receiving the goods as stated. Feedback is a courtesy and not a right and if a seller zips me books quick, and in the grade stated, I could care less if I never receive a Positive for paying the next day.

 

I also think I'd be foolish to ignore a prime source of high-grade comics just because the seller didn't post feedback. But that's just me, and everyone else is free to form their own opinions.

[FlyingDonut]

Personally, I leave feedback whenever I receive payment on the file. If they choose not to leave feedback when they receive the book, that's their perogrative. All I care about when I make a sale is getting paid. A positive feedback is a bonus. The ones that I hate are the sellers that explicit state that they will not leave feedback unless the buyer leaves positive feedback because they feel that the transaction is not completed until then.

 

I'm going to be blunt. My feedback number is damn near 3,000. I leave feedback when I ship the book, mostly because if I don't do it then it gets to be a massive file and a pain in the , and also because it allows me to very easily track those scumbags who don't pay. To be honest with you, I don't give a rodent's gluteus anymore if somebody leaves me feedback - the next color change for my "star" is at 5,000, and when it comes, it comes.

[Joanna]

:: It is basically left to Feedback to help police ebay and alert others to potential bad sellers

:: and bad buyers. In this environment, no one is automaically owed anything.

 

There's an inconsistancy between those two sentences. I think there is an automatic owing in the following 2 things:

 

I think that if you have a very positive experience, you owe it to others to let them know: this is one of ebay's good ones. I found him/her safe to do business with.

 

And if you have a negative experience, you owe it to others to let them know: this is one of ebay's rotten eggs. Engage at your own risk.

 

Now for some (as is evidenced here), a buyer getting feedback from a seller as soon as payment is received IS part of the "this is one of ebay's good ones" formula. It may not factor into your equation, but it's important to know that it does matter to some. As a seller, I find that to be valuable information. I'm going to strive to be more vigilant about giving fast feedback. That's the lesson I've learned from this discussion. Because I want those good buyers.

 

Bad buyers, like the one CI mentioned (and thanks, CI, I immediately put him on my blocked bidders list) are going to screw you whether you're first or not. They're not going to care. Especially the ones who simply resub when one ID is ousted. Withholding feedback isn't much of a weapon against someone determined to mess you up.

 

I do understand the reasoning you give, I just think that for myself, I'll be happier making sure I give good buyers their due as soon as they pay. If I'm made to pay for that later, so be it.

 

-- Joanna

[PovertyRow]

>>I think that if you have a very positive experience, you owe it to others to let them know: this is one of ebay's good ones. I found him/her safe to do business with.<<

 

I definitely agree with everything you said. And yes, I can see how an inconsistency in my saying "no one is automatically owed anything" can be perceived. It was the "automatically" that I was trying to stress. It sounded like the only responsibility of the seller is to assume every buyer that sends in payment in a timely manner is automatically going to be the perfect buyer, and I do disagree with that.

 

All I am trying to say, and you actually helped me put it into words, is: how do you know you have had a very positive experience until the transaction is fully completed?

 

[Darthdiesel]

Testomanlives is an eBay anomaly, and a case study for obsessive behavior. He is blocked on my auctions, as I believe he'd find a way to neg me on a CGc 10.0 graded book shipped in perfect crack/scratch free condition.

These types are out to prove a point as you can see from their replies and feedbacks left. He purposefully wins multiple items from a sellerwho claims "Mint" on their auction descriptions and then makes sure he has enoguh room to sermonize from his ebay feedback pulpit on the the evils of overgrading. I believe he is very poupular/unpopular on the ebay boards. This is one of those stories where something one day made this guy snap and he ain't been right in the head ever since.

[Darthdiesel]

Things can get mis-read all the time

 

 

Yeah, yeah yeah...miread this, Scottish...

 

 

insufficiently_thoughtful_person! size>

[Joanna]

:: All I am trying to say, and you actually helped me put it into words, is: how do you know you

:: have had a very positive experience until the transaction is fully completed?

 

Well, by golly, that is an interesting question. Primarily because I've never had anything but a positive experience once the transaction is fully completed. Am I living on borrowed ebay time? Very possibly.

 

I suppose I've just relied on honest auctions (always giving detailed accounts of what I'm selling, without fudging the facts), friendly communication, and fast, safe shipping. If someone is going to complain after all that, then there was nothing I could've done in the first place to satisfy them (unless there was an honest error, i.e. not seeing a tear or a stain or something).

 

Please believe me when I say that I'm not implying anyone here hasn't done exactly the same, and may still have had a bad experience. Obviously, CI had the misfortune of running into a creep who doesn't care what the seller does or says. I noticed one of the negative feedbacks said the seller overgraded, but if you look at the auction it was for a lot of coverless books, selling for around a dollar! The seller didn't try to grade a bunch of coverless books as anything other than a bunch of trashed, coverless books. The feedback was a bald-faced lie. Against someone like that, there is no defence, except to look in HIS feedback and see how many angry sellers have posted. He had something like 46 pieces of negative feedback, as I recall.

 

Okay, let's boil it down to the essence: I'd rather have snizzenfixit and people like him as good, loyal customers and am willing to take my chances that I won't get any abberations like testomanlives. That's why I give feedback at payment. I trust with awareness. I'm taking a chance, but it's a calculated chance, based on the basic goodness of most people.

 

-- Joanna

[PovertyRow]

>>Well, by golly, that is an interesting question.<<

 

! That made me grin. Now here is the weird other side of the coin. When I sell, I actually tend to leave feedback when I receive payment. But as a buyer I request feedback be done at the completion of the transaction. Who said I was consistent?

[snizzenfixit]

Ahhhh Joanna;

A breath of fresh air, I think you get what I am trying to say. I am not alone in how I feel about this. I believe that I am a top-o-the-line buyer. If the seller offers PayPal as an option, I pay as quickly as possible (usually within 15 minutes of auction close) . if they don't, I get a check out to them in the following days mail. I have NEVER written a bad check. If I were the seller, this is EXACTLY the type of buyer I would be hoping for.

 

If the seller leaves quick feedback and ships quickly, I recieve the item, and check to see that it is REASONABLY close to being as described. I would for example be reasonably satisfied if a book was VF in my opinion, and the seller described it as NM. Now I may or may not bid on raw comics from him again, but definitely wouldn't fault him for not being a grader. If the item is close enough to "as described", I make certain that feedback has been left, and I leave feedback.

 

Sellers who do not follow this simple recipe WILL lose potential bidders eventually, because I am not the only person who chooses to do business this way. So it boils down to this, does the seller want to appeal to the most potential bidders or does the seller want to be paranoid and protect his precious feedback.

 

Phil

 

[Joanna]

:: So it boils down to this, does the seller want to appeal to the most potential bidders or does

:: the seller want to be paranoid and protect his precious feedback.

 

Yes! That is it exactly! Nicely said, Phil. I've been slowly building a clientelle in the comics area of ebay, and they are coming back more and more often, bidding on more items, increasing their bids -- even if someone else is selling the same books in the same or even better condition. These buyers are very important to me. I would rather protect them, than my feedback. I would rather gather new, wonderful regular buyers, than worry about potential bad ones. These people keep a constant 'box' of comics going, and when it reaches a certain number, they pay, I ship and I start a new box. I've written to them, asking them what they're looking for, and tailor auctions to their tastes. I adore these people. They're worth any possible abberant strife. I want more of them, and will do whatever it takes to make every new buyer as happy as possible with the sale.

 

However, I can also recognize that not everyone feels the same way. Protection of your reputation is also of primary importance. It's a risk, a gamble, and I've always been a gambler. I don't have a 'regular' job. I have no security, often live hand to mouth, but it allows me to do what I love to do: write. I sell on ebay to make money, and I write to live.

 

-- Joanna

[read_em-migration]

I know Testomanlives!, and it may (or may not) surprise you all to know that he has a selling ID with over 500 positives, with only 2 neutrals, no negatives. So you guys may have bought something from him and not even know it. Ironic, eh?