Why the hate?

[Arkham]

Okay... so I'm obviously biased - but I love these boards and the reason for that is the people on them and the VAST amount of knowledge that people happily share with each other. (The odd bargain in the for sale section goes alright too).

 

But when I trawl around other "comic book" related forums online, I'm usually dismayed by two things, firstly the sheer volume of numb nuts there are out there that share this hobby but secondly the anti-CGC sentiment.

 

People usually flame CGC for:

- variations in QC;

- being unable to open the book;

 

While I agree that a classic cover wrapped up in mylar is an incredibly sexy thing to look at... but I also know that a slab is a truly beautiful thing. The argument of "not being able to open the book" aside (buy a reader) I don't know how anyone could hate them.

 

Being based in Aus, I place a lot of trust in the slab when buying a key book. So, for mine, I get a strong sense of trust that what I am receiving is exactly what it is advertised as (provided it shows up) and a beautiful thing to look at.

 

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

 

[budsbundy]

Because it's the internet, and the internet runs on hate and porn

 

 

Slabs took a while for me to get used to after returning to collecting from a 30+ year break.

 

At first I thought they were the stupidest thing I had ever seen, and you would have to be a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person to buy one.

 

 

Now I like them, and all my major key purchases have been slabbed books.

(Although I did crack them all out after getting them)

[fantastic_four]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

[HarveySwick]

 

[lizards2]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

[mystrymachine]

Price would probably be a factor as well since graded books demand a premium to pay for the grading service.

Many don't understand why they have to pay for a Walking Dead 1 for ABC when the Overstreet guide lists it at DEF.

[joe_collector]

But there is one valid reason for some of this hate, like when CGC grading is used to create artificial scarcity in books that are not susceptible to resto and are widely available in NM/NM+. Books that have no place in a CGC holder, but are there to entice the foolish speculator with low Census numbers and the promise of increased value.

 

i.e. the chase for a CGC 9.9 or 10.0 Modern that sells for a few hundred or even a thousand times more than a NM copy - to me, that's a horrible trend that has far deeper repercussions than the 90's speculator phase, and I do understand why collectors are irate about this greasy side of the hobby.

[Jeffro.]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

I just love those stories about how the guy submitted his books thinking he was going to get results in the upper nines, only to have them come back 8.0 and lower. The best part is when they blame CGC instead of their own ing lack of grading skills.

[Buzzetta]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

I just love those stories about how the guy submitted his books thinking he was going to get results in the upper nines, only to have them come back 8.0 and lower. The best part is when they blame CGC instead of their own ing lack of grading skills.

 

 

I think that really is it since it forces a reality that they may not want to face while devaluing their own collection

[Erndog]

I'm not "in love" with slabs. They've taken me quite a while to get used to.

 

But if I'm spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on books online, I'm buying them graded... period. I NEED to know what I'm getting. I can't trust other peoples grading skills (and detecting resto, etc). Plus the bonus security in shipping, etc.

 

CGC has become a safety net for me. A security blanket of sorts. Ideally I'd have everything wrapped up nicely in a mylar but I'm not cracking out all my books for a number of reasons.

 

 

[comicwiz]

It's a combination of a lot of these things. In the face of it, resistance to certification is mostly healthy.

 

The healthy resistence is usually divided into several camps. Purists, who are old guard collectors that just don't see the fuss about certification. These are the touch/feel/smell type that see a "tomb" as an interference play on a hobby they've been mostly able to enjoy without rent-a-graders.

 

Then there are collectors who are just plain worried certification is going to blow the ceiling on values and open the floodgates for specs. But even these guys will be the first to post asking for opinions on a juicy piece they come into for fear they are going to leave money on the table when they sell. And on this point, you can almost see the dust-ups that are going to arise if they decide to play the testa dura, forgo submitting, sell within the community, and later find their books online being sold at multiples of what they got when they sold it ungraded.

 

The guys who just bang on the anti-CGC drum for the sake of banging on it - well, this is sometimes annoying and frustrating, but that oppositional view can sometimes also provide a much needed reality check for some to properly realize not all books should be certified, nor will all books benefit from sitting in a slab.

[joe_collector]

This is the first sane post in the entire thread, and is spot-on for the motivations of real-world, non-CGC collectors.

 

It's a combination of a lot of these things. In the face of it, resistance to certification is mostly healthy.

 

The healthy resistence is usually divided into several camps. Purists, who are old guard collectors that just don't see the fuss about certification. These are the touch/feel/smell type that see a "tomb" as an interferience play on a hobby they've been mostly able to enjoy without rent-a-graders.

 

Then there are collectors who are just plain worried certification is going to blow the ceiling on values and open the floodgates for specs. But even these guys will be the first to post asking for opinions on a juicy piece they come into for fear they are going to leave money on the table when they sell. And on this point, you can almost see the dust-ups that are going to arise if they decide to play the hard head, forgo submitting, sell within the community, and later find their books online being sold at multiples of what they got when they sold it ungraded.

 

The guys who just bang on the anti-CGC drum for the sake of banging on it - well, this is sometimes annoying and frustrating, but that oppositional view can sometimes also provide a much needed reality check for some to properly realize not all books should be certified, nor will all books benefit from sitting in a slab.

[youmechooz]

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like

 

+10000000

[Dr. Balls]

Because it's the internet, and the internet runs on hate and porn

 

One and done.

[mangbus]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

This. These are my favorite auctions.

[lizards2]

Price would probably be a factor as well since graded books demand a premium to pay for the grading service.

 

I agree with that on some books. However, when books are put on no reserve auctions, you see interesting things. I think the CGC grades sometimes drag the prices down to at or below raw prices. Since I'm primarily a cheap-@zz, not a completionist, and very patient, I get quite a few CGC'd books at really low prices.

[youmechooz]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

I just love those stories about how the guy submitted his books thinking he was going to get results in the upper nines, only to have them come back 8.0 and lower. The best part is when they blame CGC instead of their own ing lack of grading skills.

When I first got back into collecting 4 years ago, I thought I had a flawless batman 248. I didn't know much about grading comics and thought all my books were NM and worth at least 10 a piece. Sent in the batman 248 thinking it was going to come back a 9.8. Came back a 7.5. The day that submission came back I went to the lcs and bought the overstreet grading guide, found this forum and read most of the threads in spare a grade section learning how to grade. I didn't blame CGC, at that time you could still call them for graders notes so I called and they told me everything wrong with it. I missed a lot . Real eye opener.

[lizards2]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

I just love those stories about how the guy submitted his books thinking he was going to get results in the upper nines, only to have them come back 8.0 and lower. The best part is when they blame CGC instead of their own ing lack of grading skills.

When I first got back into collecting 4 years ago, I thought I had a flawless batman 248. I didn't know much about grading comics and thought all my books were NM and worth at least 10 a piece. Sent in the batman 248 thinking it was going to come back a 9.8. Came back a 7.5. The day that submission came back I went to the lcs and bought the overstreet grading guide, found this forum and read most of the threads in spare a grade section learning how to grade. I didn't blame CBC, at that time you could still call them for graders notes so I called and they told me everything wrong with it. I missed a lot . Real eye opener.

 

You know, part of it is the change in grading over the years. For those of us that have been at this hobby for 40+ years, things have changed a lot. Back when you had fewer grades, you classified books to the closest grade - if it was way better than FN, it was NM. So yeah, I think everyone got a lesson as all the intervening grades were established.

 

I'm just thankful that I always had an eye for quality during the various times, so that when I go back in to the boxes to grade my NM or M books I purchased 30 years ago, very few are less than VF+.

[Davenport]

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

Don't know about "hate", but there have been quite a number of loud, hotly debated and understandable "moans" throughout the decade.

 

I think it would be insanely fascinating reading if some historian could get the insider interviews and lay it all out in book-form from the beginning. Maybe not a 'Wolf of Wall Street' level of bizarreness, but it'd still be a page-turner full of weird characters, cash, and roller coaster consequences. The Nic Cage chapter alone would be worth the price of admission.

[djpinkpanther67]

 

 

Slabs took a while for me to get used to after returning to collecting from a 30+ year break.

 

At first I thought they were the stupidest thing I had ever seen, and you would have to be a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person to buy one.

 

 

Now I like them, and all my major key purchases have been slabbed books.

Almost a mirror of me when I came back to the hobby after 34 years....I thought slabs were ugly and didn't like what I didn't understand til I started shadowing the Forums and learning about them a few months before I actually joined...funny how much you THINK you know, then reality pimp slaps you...

I STILL learn things everyday here