X-Men 266 (First Gambit) Query

[tentpeg06]

Fellow Society members,

Check out this link below for a Mike Collins X-Men 266 interior page currently on eBay:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141162800702?afsrc=1#ht_271wt_1120

 

I do not know the seller, and I am not disparaging him/her for trying to get the maximum value for their X-Men page. What I find faulty here is the logic that this page would command prices comparable to a Roth/non-action Cockrum first run/non-action Byrne/Paul Smith/Jim Lee X-Men page from the 1960s to early 1990s. I keep tabs on the prices for many of the artists who worked on X-Men/Uncanny X-Men prior issue 300, and this is one of the artists for whom I believe just did a one issue stint with the introduction of what I consider a secondary character in the X-Men universe. This asking price also beats out many of the artists who had longers stints on the title like Romita, Jr./Silvestri/second run Cockrum/Leonardi/Portacio. Am I way off base here? Is Mike Collins art from this one issue in that high of a demand? Thoughts?

Ciao!

PRC

[mister_not_so_nice]

I have NO CLUE of the x-men market. But I do know that any OA listed on eBay as a straight B.I.N. is 99.9% a phishing expedition.

If the page was "for sale" it would be an auction with a more reasonable starting bid.

 

Asking prices on eBay have no relevance to market value.

[Pete Marino]

I think the price is high.

 

My personal opinion is the art in that comic is not so pretty. If Jim Lee had done 266, I think it would be much closer to ASM 300 in popularity, but alas, that is not the case.

 

But. The page with the 1st appearance of Gambit sold on HA for about 8k not too long ago.

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7039&lotNo=92103

 

 

[Catwoman_Fan]

I guess the price is completely related to Gambit, and not the artist.

 

Not being an X-fan, my outsider's point of view is that Gambit is a major character, so his first appearance would carry that premium. I remember the days when Wizard listed 266 as on of their Hot books, so it carry's some nostalgia for me.

 

 

 

[Doc McCoy]

I'd agree that it's more than likely a phishing expedition, hoping to reel in someone waxing nostalgic about their 90's X-Men books. Is Gambit a secondary character in the X-Universe now? Probably. But at the time of his introduction and through the entire Jim Lee/Scott Williams run on the X-titles, you could argue there was no hotter character in comics. There is a reason 266 is considered a key X-Men book.

[Catwoman_Fan]

If it makes you feel any better, his website has the page listed for $5,000

 

http://www.berserkerart.com/?product=uncanny-xmen-266-gambit-1st-appearance

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

I guess the price is completely related to Gambit, and not the artist.

 

Yeah, it's all about the first appearance of Gambit (and all the warm fuzzy feelings comic guys have about that issue and the character) - the fact that it's Mike Collins is just a side note, much as is the fact that Herb Trimpe (and not a bigger name) drew the first appearance of Wolverine. I understand PRC's sentiment, though, as the "art" is simply awful.

[jjonahjameson1]

I thought his 1st appearance is in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14.

[delekkerste]

I thought his 1st appearance is in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14.

 

My bad. I meant the first appearance of Gambit that anybody actually cares about.

[mister_not_so_nice]

If it makes you feel any better, his website has the page listed for $5,000

 

http://www.berserkerart.com/?product=uncanny-xmen-266-gambit-1st-appearance

 

 

 

Further evidence to support my hypothesis that he is just pulling prices out of his _ _ _ .

 

Why list something on eBay for less than it is for sale on your website?

 

I do list stuff on eBay that is also on my website. But in every case I INCREASE the price to cover the eBay fees. The observant buyer will see the same page is listed on my site for less and if interested will purchase from there.

[Pete Marino]

If it makes you feel any better, his website has the page listed for $5,000

 

http://www.berserkerart.com/?product=uncanny-xmen-266-gambit-1st-appearance

 

 

 

Further evidence to support my hypothesis that he is just pulling prices out of his _ _ _ .

 

Why list something on eBay for less than it is for sale on your website?

 

I do list stuff on eBay that is also on my website. But in every case I INCREASE the price to cover the eBay fees. The observant buyer will see the same page is listed on my site for less and if interested will purchase from there.

 

His site is blocked on the firewall at work... feel like I'm missing out =(

[Doc McCoy]

I guess the price is completely related to Gambit, and not the artist.

 

 

The fact that he has three Kirby pages listed for less on his website confirms that one!

 

 

[tentpeg06]

I thought his 1st appearance is in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14.

 

From the GCD about Gambit's first appearance:

 

Days of Future Present, Part 4; Continued from X-Factor Annual (Marvel, 1986 series) #5; This issue is Gambit's 1st appearance but, since its events follow Uncanny X-Men #266, the latter is considered his debut.

 

So, Marvel created somewhat of a conundrum by releasing X-Men Annual 14 prior to the release of X-Men 266. This is the reason why I considered X-Men 266 as the first appearance for story continuity.

Ciao!

PRC

[tentpeg06]

I guess the price is completely related to Gambit, and not the artist.

 

Yeah, it's all about the first appearance of Gambit (and all the warm fuzzy feelings comic guys have about that issue and the character) - the fact that it's Mike Collins is just a side note, much as is the fact that Herb Trimpe (and not a bigger name) drew the first appearance of Wolverine. I understand PRC's sentiment, though, as the "art" is simply awful.

 

Gene,

While you wrote that the art was 'simply awful', I did not imply that the art was awful. It was definitely a transitional period with this being one of the issues between Marc Silvestri moving off the title to Homage Studios taking over the title (and leading it to astronomical sales with the Lee/Portacio/Williams team). Between Silvestri and Homage Studios, you had Kieron Dwyer, Bill Jaaska, and Mike Collins filling in for the pencilling duties. For 266, Joe Rubinstein was the inker, and he is one of the better inkers in Marvel's bullpen. However, he is only as good as his penciller. As others wrote, it clearly is character driven pricing and not artist driven pricing. I wonder if Mike knows that a page from his work on this issue sold for almost $8,000 with the Heritage juice from 2011.

Ciao!

PRC

 

[delekkerste]

Gene,

While you wrote that the art was 'simply awful', I did not imply that the art was awful. It was definitely a transitional period with this being one of the issues between Marc Silvestri moving off the title to Homage Studios taking over the title (and leading it to astronomical sales with the Lee/Portacio/Williams team). Between Silvestri and Homage Studios, you had Kieron Dwyer, Bill Jaaska, and Mike Collins filling in for the pencilling duties. For 266, Joe Rubinstein was the inker, and he is one of the better inkers in Marvel's bullpen. However, he is only as good as his penciller. As others wrote, it clearly is character driven pricing and not artist driven pricing. I wonder if Mike knows that a page from his work on this issue sold for almost $8,000 with the Heritage juice from 2011.

Ciao!

PRC

 

Whoops, sorry Philip, I didn't mean to imply that you thought the art was awful - what I meant was that I sympathize with your argument that this page looked overpriced, especially relative to those other X-artists you mentioned, because I think the art is pretty bad. And, I'm not the only one! From a recent Comics General thread:

 

The artwork on the inside [of Uncanny X-Men #266] is so poor, I actually refuse to have this book in my collection - I don't care if it's Gambit's first appearance.

[Catwoman_Fan]

I thought his 1st appearance is in Uncanny X-Men Annual #14.

 

From the GCD about Gambit's first appearance:

 

Days of Future Present, Part 4; Continued from X-Factor Annual (Marvel, 1986 series) #5; This issue is Gambit's 1st appearance but, since its events follow Uncanny X-Men #266, the latter is considered his debut.

 

So, Marvel created somewhat of a conundrum by releasing X-Men Annual 14 prior to the release of X-Men 266. This is the reason why I considered X-Men 266 as the first appearance for story continuity.

Ciao!

PRC

 

It's like the first appearance of Gen 13. Deathmate Black was their first appearance, but they were introduced in Gen 13 #1, which became a Hot 90's book. The "technical" first appearance wasn't nearly as collectible.

 

[Mephisto]

If Gambit wasn't on the page the price would be way out there. That said all it takes is one big Gambit collector to pop that bin. It's not absolutely insane. It's slightly more than I paid for the 92 Jusko Marvel Masterpiece of Gambit.

[heartened]

Fellow Society members,

Check out this link below for a Mike Collins X-Men 266 interior page currently on eBay:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141162800702?afsrc=1#ht_271wt_1120

 

I do not know the seller, and I am not disparaging him/her for trying to get the maximum value for their X-Men page. What I find faulty here is the logic that this page would command prices comparable to a Roth/non-action Cockrum first run/non-action Byrne/Paul Smith/Jim Lee X-Men page from the 1960s to early 1990s. I keep tabs on the prices for many of the artists who worked on X-Men/Uncanny X-Men prior issue 300, and this is one of the artists for whom I believe just did a one issue stint with the introduction of what I consider a secondary character in the X-Men universe. This asking price also beats out many of the artists who had longers stints on the title like Romita, Jr./Silvestri/second run Cockrum/Leonardi/Portacio. Am I way off base here? Is Mike Collins art from this one issue in that high of a demand? Thoughts?

Ciao!

PRC

 

First appearance. Important and popular character. Think Deadpool and Liefeld. Same thing would happen on those pages.

 

[AKA Rick]

 

It's like the first appearance of Gen 13. Deathmate Black was their first appearance, but they were introduced in Gen 13 #1, which became a Hot 90's book. The "technical" first appearance wasn't nearly as collectible.

 

I thought Deathmate Black (February 1994) was the 1st Appearance in a story.

 

As for Gen 13 as a team and concept, I think the 1st appearance as a team of characters was in promotional advertising artwork by J. Scott Campbell, if that counts within image comics publications as teaser ads and on the cover of their upcoming releases promotional comic sized magazine called "Inside Image" (Cover Date August 1993) where the team was referred to as "GEN X" (which they had to change due to Marvel's "Generation X" title).

 

But I could be wrong with the release dates.

 

Back to topic, I don't think $3-5k for a 1st Appearance of a major character isn't too far off, despite the artist, it's all about the character and a lot of investor/collectors may opt for a 1st app over a beautiful rendering since anyone can draw nicely at anytime, but to get something historical as a 1st app (whether page from the issue or the actual 1st panel app) is something special that can never be replicated. It's in part why I'm a bigger fan of published art over commissions, that unique historic and nostalgic appeal.