THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, peewee22 said:

5 hours ago, Aman619 said:

The real significance of the upgrade for the purposes of this thread goes back to the ongoing discussion of what exactly kicked off the huge spec burst in AF 15 a few years ago.  Many of us point to a few upgradeable mid grade copies selling for unheard of numbers.  This usually signifies two or more bidders recognizing an upgrade opportunity worth paying over GPA for. Finding out that indeed one or more of the three copies that sold strongly at CC in fact WERE upgraded underscores that argument, as opposed to the other theories suggested in this thread.  And a double upgrade would mean that the bidders could have been safely betting at up to 15-20K more than GPA at the time. 

The biggest winner I've seen was the 8.0 CBCS purchased for 78k (I think) and came back a CGC 8.0.

I believe you are referring to the CBCS 8.5 graded copy that sold on Heritage back in the summer of 2016 for almost $78K.  Looking back through the rear view mirror, that auction result was clearly a watershed or turning point for the AF 15 marketplace.  Especially when you considered that it ended up selling for what amount to a huge discount to condition guide at something like a 30+% or by more than $35K under the Overstreet valuation at the time.  

I also remember there was a lot of talk about that book on these same boards here with most members calling it an overgraded POS book since it was graded by the other company and if graded by CGC, the book would surely only grade back out somewhere in the 7's.  There was so much derision here at the poor uneducated loser that paid that kind of silly money for that particular copy as he surely must have lost not only his shirt, but also his pants at the same time on that book.  

Not so much the case in the end as the "loser" got the book regraded by CGC at the same 8.5 grade and flipped it back out in the next Heritage Auction at a sale price of over $155K.  Of course, many of the same boobirds who ridiculed him for paying a whopping $78K then laugh at him for underselling the book at only $155K when they thought the book would easily sell for well over $200K given how fast the AF 15 marketplace was ramping up at the time.  

Interesting how the definition of a loser and a winner can mean the same thing sometimes.  

[blazingbob]

It is easy to judge when it is not your money.

 

[NoMan]

17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I believe you are referring to the CBCS 8.5 graded copy that sold on Heritage back in the summer of 2016 for almost $78K.  Looking back through the rear view mirror, that auction result was clearly a watershed or turning point for the AF 15 marketplace.  Especially when you considered that it ended up selling for what amount to a huge discount to condition guide at something like a 30+% or by more than $35K under the Overstreet valuation at the time.  

I also remember there was a lot of talk about that book on these same boards here with most members calling it an overgraded POS book since it was graded by the other company and if graded by CGC, the book would surely only grade back out somewhere in the 7's.  There was so much derision here at the poor uneducated loser that paid that kind of silly money for that particular copy as he surely must have lost not only his shirt, but also his pants at the same time on that book.  

Not so much the case in the end as the "loser" got the book regraded by CGC at the same 8.5 grade and flipped it back out in the next Heritage Auction at a sale price of over $155K.  Of course, many of the same boobirds who ridiculed him for paying a whopping $78K then laugh at him for underselling the book at only $155K when they thought the book would easily sell for well over $200K given how fast the AF 15 marketplace was ramping up at the time.  

Interesting how the definition of a loser and a winner can mean the same thing sometimes.  

I like reading your posts about that AF15 CBCS 8.5 that became a CGC 8.5, Lou. Your information is impeccable making your conclusions even handed and reasoned, a rarity around here.  Hats off to you, sir. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by NoMan

[peewee22]

7 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I like reading your posts about that AF15 CBCS 8.5 that became a CGC 8.5, Lou. Your information is impeccable making your conclusions even handed and reasoned, a rarity around here.  Hats off to you, sir. 

Maybe he is the person that bought & flipped it. 

[lou_fine]

10 minutes ago, peewee22 said:

18 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I like reading your posts about that AF15 CBCS 8.5 that became a CGC 8.5, Lou. Your information is impeccable making your conclusions even handed and reasoned, a rarity around here.  Hats off to you, sir. 

Maybe he is the person that bought & flipped it. 

Being the cheapo collector that I am, I highly doubt that as my normal spending limit for any funny book has always been around only $1K  and this one is way past that spending limit threshold by a long shot.  

And I am also definitely not the speculator type that would flip a book back out so quickly, as I have kept the books in my collection for decades on end.  

But I do know the person that originally sold it and the reason why I kept track of it.  

Edited July 30, 2018 by lou_fine

[peewee22]

2 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Being the cheapo collector that I am, I highly doubt that as my normal spending limit for any funny book has always been around only $1K  and this one is way past that spending limit threshold by a long shot.  

And I am also definitely not the speculator type that would flip a book back out so quickly, as I have kept the books in my collection for decades on end.  

But I do know the person that originally sold it and the reason why I kept track of it.

I knew it. Just ruffling your feathers.

[NoMan]

9 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Being the cheapo collector that I am, I highly doubt that as my normal spending limit for any funny book has always been around only $1K  and this one is way past that spending limit threshold by a long shot.  

And I am also definitely not the speculator type that would flip a book back out so quickly, as I have kept the books in my collection for decades on end.  

But I do know the person that originally sold it and the reason why I kept track of it.  

sold it at the CBCS leg of the journey?  Magik Woo?

[lou_fine]

41 minutes ago, NoMan said:

sold it at the CBCS leg of the journey?  Magik Woo?

Well, if you are going to refer to "Mr. Magik Man" himself, then you should check out this beauty of a book that ends at Heritage in a couple of days from now:   

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-4-stan-lee-verified-signature-marvel-1969-cbcs-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7189-91158.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Oh, my bad, I would guess.  Since it's been graded by the other company, I assume most boardies here would claim that it's another one of those overgraded  POS books that would only be somewhere in the 8's if if had been graded by CGC.  

[VintageComics]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:42 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

Personally, I don't want to know, I don't care but we would not have been discussing this if not for his comment.

 

On 7/29/2018 at 7:09 PM, Aman619 said:

Finding out that indeed one or more of the three copies that sold strongly at CC in fact WERE upgraded underscores that argument, as opposed to the other theories suggested in this thread.

I made the comment because I received derision for suggestion that the reason the prices were so strong was because copies were potentially upgradeable (or exceptionally nice for the grade) during the time that the auctions were happening  and not even knowing whether they were going to upgrade or not.

It's not even a secret gang. As I've always stated that if an exceptionally nice book for the grade (whether upgradeable or not) comes to market, it always commands a premium. It's a no brainer. The nicer the book, the greater the premium.

The conversation here just gets a lot more interest and focus because we're talking about AF #15 (and a lot more money).

If we were talking about an Avengers #196 that went from 9.6 to 9.8 nobody would care.

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by VintageComics

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Well, if you are going to refer to "Mr. Magik Man" himself, then you should check out this beauty of a book that ends at Heritage in a couple of days from now:   

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-4-stan-lee-verified-signature-marvel-1969-cbcs-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7189-91158.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Oh, my bad, I would guess.  Since it's been graded by the other company, I assume most boardies here would claim that it's another one of those overgraded  POS books that would only be somewhere in the 8's if if had been graded by CGC.  

I’m intrigued by Mr. Woo. Would love to know more about his Locken’ & Poppen’ career however a Scooby Doo mystery he’ll remain. You’ll get no low opinion from me of CBCS’ grading of either Mr. Woo’s AF15 or his Silver Surfer you so kindly pointed out above. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by NoMan

[peewee22]

On 7/15/2018 at 9:59 PM, Chicago Boy said:

Anyone know what happened with this particular book.  Saw a news clip on it from the LCS owner and he was either clueless or lying.  

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/rare-spider-man-comic-for-sale-in-b-c-could-sell-for-1m-1.3571716

Maybe Roy might know something here. Was it ever sent in for graded?

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, peewee22 said:

Maybe Roy might know something here. Was it ever sent in for graded?

I think there was a thread about this book / find.

And I think it was a mid-grade copy. Definitely not a million dollar copy.

[lou_fine]

54 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

2 hours ago, peewee22 said:

Maybe Roy might know something here. Was it ever sent in for graded?

I think there was a thread about this book / find.

And I think it was a mid-grade copy. Definitely not a million dollar copy.

But maybe if it had just continued on the same red hot trajectory that it was on last summer, it just might have been a million dollar book.  

 

Or not.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by lou_fine

[NoMan]

I really miss this thread from a year and half or so ago when the AF15 bubble was inflating and inflating and inflating.

Was such a good read with its juxtaposition of calm, rational and experienced posts with posts straight from the cuckoo-cuckoo clock. 

 

Come on AF15 Bubble come back! Come back! All is forgiven. 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by NoMan

[Sweet Lou 14]

23 minutes ago, NoMan said:

I really miss this thread from a year and half or so ago when the AF15 bubble was inflating and inflating and inflating.

Was such a good read with its juxtaposition of calm, rational and experienced posts with posts straight from the cuckoo-cuckoo clock. 

 

Come on AF15 Bubble come back! Come back! All is forgiven. 

 

Well maybe the FF #1 thread is where we all should be having that discussion right now.

In my case, I bought my AF #15 in July 2017.  More or less the height of the AF #15 bubble.  I wouldn't say I feel full-on regret, but I don't think I could break even if I tried to sell my copy today.  Since I bought this to hold indefinitely, and not to flip, I feel hopeful that I'll be OK in the long run.

Now I'm sitting here with FF #1 on my want list.  Kicking myself for not buying one last year -- in addition to or even instead of AF #15.  Should I race to buy one now?  If I do, will I sit here a year from now feeling like I bought at precisely the wrong time?

Questions to ponder.

[NoMan]

48 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Well maybe the FF #1 thread is where we all should be having that discussion right now.

In my case, I bought my AF #15 in July 2017.  More or less the height of the AF #15 bubble.  I wouldn't say I feel full-on regret, but I don't think I could break even if I tried to sell my copy today.  Since I bought this to hold indefinitely, and not to flip, I feel hopeful that I'll be OK in the long run.

Now I'm sitting here with FF #1 on my want list.  Kicking myself for not buying one last year -- in addition to or even instead of AF #15.  Should I race to buy one now?  If I do, will I sit here a year from now feeling like I bought at precisely the wrong time?

Questions to ponder.

Several of the Market Reports in the 2018 OSPG say that the AF15 prices of 2017 could not be sustained echoing some folks opinions here from back in the crazy days of 2017. One market report made the suggestion that the time to sell AF15 is now and to put that money into a different key(s). (Just got out my book and looked this up. Alex Reece from Reece's Rare Comics says it atop page 178, specifically if you are "unsure" about keeping yours of not.) But in fairness other Market Reports say AF15 "shows no sign of slowing down" (Todd Sheffer of Hake's Americana Page 183. ) 

If you wanted the AF15 for your long term collection, well, now you have one! Like you said if one isn't flipping no need to worry.

If you want an FF 1 for your long term collection, you'll get one. 

I know, I know. I'm no help whatsoever. I can't be a monday morning quarterback. Does anyone truly know when the bubble is gonna take off or burst?

Edited August 1, 2018 by NoMan

[chrisco37]

37 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Well maybe the FF #1 thread is where we all should be having that discussion right now.

In my case, I bought my AF #15 in July 2017.  More or less the height of the AF #15 bubble.  I wouldn't say I feel full-on regret, but I don't think I could break even if I tried to sell my copy today.  Since I bought this to hold indefinitely, and not to flip, I feel hopeful that I'll be OK in the long run.

Now I'm sitting here with FF #1 on my want list.  Kicking myself for not buying one last year -- in addition to or even instead of AF #15.  Should I race to buy one now?  If I do, will I sit here a year from now feeling like I bought at precisely the wrong time?

Questions to ponder.

FF1 was undervalued for awhile.  It was due for an explosion (same with 48).  Those books are getting up to where they should be.

That said, AF15 is always a good buy.  It’s as blue-chip as it gets.  Prices may have leveled off a bit from the craze of last year, but you bought the #3 book in the entire hobby (only Action 1 & Tec 27 are “better).  

As long as you didn’t buy it for the “quick flip” (it doesn’t sound like you did), you’ll be fine.  Comics are cyclical.  But the blue chips are always good.  If you bought with the intent to hold for 5+ years, you’ll be fine.  I wouldn’t sweat it.

Youve got the first appearance of Spider-Man.  Arguably the most popular comic character there is (it’s a close battle between him and Batman).  If AF15 was 20 years older, it could easily be the top book.  

[Sweet Lou 14]

1 minute ago, chrisco37 said:

FF1 was undervalued for awhile.  It was due for an explosion (same with 48).  Those books are getting up to where they should be.

That said, AF15 is always a good buy.  It’s as blue-chip as it gets.  Prices may have leveled off a bit from the craze of last year, but you bought the #3 book in the entire hobby (only Action 1 & Tec 27 are “better).  

As long as you didn’t buy it for the “quick flip” (it doesn’t sound like you did), you’ll be fine.  Comics are cyclical.  But the blue chips are always good.  If you bought with the intent to hold for 5+ years, you’ll be fine.  I wouldn’t sweat it.

Youve got the first appearance of Spider-Man.  Arguably the most popular comic character there is (it’s a close battle between him and Batman).  If AF15 was 20 years older, it could easily be the top book.  

I should point out that I also picked up X-Men #1 last year.  So, to the extent that the DIsney/Fox merger is driving up all the Fox properties, I feel like I got it half right.

[NoMan]

I wonder if any speculators snatched up FF 1 in 1994 upon hearing that Corman was gonna make a movie?

 

[chrisco37]

17 minutes ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

I should point out that I also picked up X-Men #1 last year.  So, to the extent that the DIsney/Fox merger is driving up all the Fox properties, I feel like I got it half right.

That’s a good buy too, I think.  Even if the original Xmen are “lame”.  The concept is great and 1st Magneto (probably the best Marvel baddy after Doom). 

Xmen ruled the roost thru the 80’s with the Clairemont/Byrne/Austin stuff.  

Daredevil 1 is the most undervalued Marvel book.  Ridiculously “cheap” in comparison when you think about it.  Such a great character with some of the more memorable storylines (Miller, Bendis, Brubaker).  

Odd/coincidence that FF1, Xmen1, and DD1 all have white covers.  Makes them tough.