CGC Issue Resolved

[lizards2]

I cracked out another 9.4 label today that turned out to be a 9.0 - fricken corner crease on a white cover you could not see through the outer or inner well

 

I was a Lois Lane 109, so no big loss, but what the heck.

[jbud73]

I never understand the resub game,did they not look nice in the old labels?

Shoulda just left em be.

 

Doesn't matter. If they are restored now they were restored then. Even sitting in a blue label.

 

EDIT: That is to say my problem (and I would guess Dan's) is not that they came back restored, but that they didn't come back restored the first time.

 

+1 x 1,000000000000000000

 

That's the problem, so is the word CONSISTENCY.

[kav]

newbie question-do people crack books cause they look at it and make the determination that it's in better condition than cgc gave it and that cgc is better at grading now so its a good bet that it will get upgraded? is it kind of something that gamblers do? also why dont they let cgc do the crackin?

ps the dude who cracked his pgx TMNT that turned out to be a 3rd ed why did he send to pgx then immediately crack? I'm missing something here.

[lizards2]

I think you're talking about the resubmit crowd.

 

However, I crack books because I can't store all that bulky carp. I also want a real grade on something, which you can't get in the slab, because it hides many flaws. The plastic tomb just doesn't do it for me.

 

I've been collecting over 40 years, so a slab in the middle of my raw DD run doesn't cut it.

[kav]

I think you're talking about the resubmit crowd.

 

However, I crack books because I can't store all that bulky carp. I also want a real grade on something, which you can't get in the slab, because it hides many flaws. The plastic tomb just doesn't do it for me.

 

I've been collecting over 40 years, so a slab in the middle of my raw DD run doesn't cut it.

 

wouldt it be cheaper to buy raw books or is that too much of a gamble? Ive never been burned on ebay-if the pics look good that exactly what i receive.

[mysterio]

I cracked out another 9.4 label today that turned out to be a 9.0 - fricken corner crease on a white cover you could not see through the outer or inner well

 

I was a Lois Lane 109, so no big loss, but what the heck.

 

That sort of stuff happens all too frequently. I recently bought an ASM #285 CGC 9.6 for a good price through a Clink auction that I cracked out for a signing. Once it was out of the slab I could see the light spine stress and long non-color breaking bends at both right hand corners and couldn't fathom how that book could get a 9.6. So instead I had my OO copy signed and subbed as it looked better than I remembered. That copy got a 9.6, so in the end it all evened out.

[lizards2]

I think you're talking about the resubmit crowd.

 

However, I crack books because I can't store all that bulky carp. I also want a real grade on something, which you can't get in the slab, because it hides many flaws. The plastic tomb just doesn't do it for me.

 

I've been collecting over 40 years, so a slab in the middle of my raw DD run doesn't cut it.

 

wouldt it be cheaper to buy raw books or is that too much of a gamble? Ive never been burned on ebay-if the pics look good that exactly what i receive.

 

I buy a mix of raw and slabs, and I'm a cheapskate. Lots of deals on here, comiclink, and eBay on slabs. I don't go to shops or cons anymore, so maybe you can get deals on raws there - I don't know.

 

There have been some books in the past, where, after buying 10 raw copies, I gave up and finally paid some extra for a slab to get a true NM copy, but you still have to crack it out to find out if the book is actually in that grade.

[CKB]

I think you're talking about the resubmit crowd.

 

However, I crack books because I can't store all that bulky carp. I also want a real grade on something, which you can't get in the slab, because it hides many flaws. The plastic tomb just doesn't do it for me.

 

I've been collecting over 40 years, so a slab in the middle of my raw DD run doesn't cut it.

 

wouldt it be cheaper to buy raw books or is that too much of a gamble? Ive never been burned on ebay-if the pics look good that exactly what i receive.

 

wut?

[kav]

I think you're talking about the resubmit crowd.

 

However, I crack books because I can't store all that bulky carp. I also want a real grade on something, which you can't get in the slab, because it hides many flaws. The plastic tomb just doesn't do it for me.

 

I've been collecting over 40 years, so a slab in the middle of my raw DD run doesn't cut it.

 

wouldt it be cheaper to buy raw books or is that too much of a gamble? Ive never been burned on ebay-if the pics look good that exactly what i receive.

 

wut?

 

i know it sounds crazy but maybe its cause i never buy super hi dollar books.

[RockMyAmadeus]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?

 

This is a very poor argument.

[RockMyAmadeus]

my problem with this situation is that I never see anyone pissed off when a re-sub works in their favor and they now have a book worth way more than it was previously worth. people need to stop expecting CGC (or any company) to be perfect. and realize the risk before you re-sub.

 

This, too, is a very poor argument.

[kav]

some times when you take your car to the shop they screw it up. usually they fix it but mistakes happen. we still have to take our car to the shops when it breaks down. likewise with doctors and everything. humans are fallible I think I've proven that pretty conclusively.

 

Mechanics fix their mistakes. I had a carpet installer come back and fix a mistake today. Who is fixing the mistake on Dan's book?? I somehow doubt cgc is doing anything to make amends.

 

What are you talking about, the mistakes were corrected when Dan resubmitted

the comics.

 

 

That's a fair argument against mine. I was thinking more in terms of financially speaking. CGC should fix their original mistake by reimbursing Dan the price difference of the books original grade versus the new grade. Had they done the work correctly the first time he would not be in this situation. Completely their fault. Their mistake cost someone real money. You back your business, own up to the mistake and reimburse your clients.

 

 

When you play the crack & resub game, sometimes you loose.

 

As far as I know Dan's business model is based around buying books that look under-graded in the slab (particularly old label books) & then do straight resubmissions, hoping for a higher grade. In those cases should Dan then reimburse CGC for the money he's making on their "mistake" in not giving those books the higher grade to begin with?

 

 

This is a very poor argument.

 

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[Jimmy Linguini]

CGC's grade is speculative. it says so on the back of the label.

 

Don't get upset if they "change there minds". Or in this case, discover restoration that was before unknown to them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't think anybody is making excuses for CGC.

 

We all feel bad for Dan (and some of us have even experienced the same thing) but the reality is that nobody is 100% perfect, so nobody's service will ever be 100% perfect.

 

If the books were handed to CGC in holders and they found the resto sitting in blue labels then you could hold them to the mistake. Because the books were sent in already free of their holders, there isn't much obligation on their part from a legal standpoint to make any corrections.

 

And not all colour touch is found with a black light.

 

 

CGC not being perfect isn't the issue.

 

They put their reputation behind every blue label slab that says "You can buy this, and be sure that you're getting a book that hasn't been restored. We have the best restoration detectors in the business {and they do}, so when you buy a blue label, you know exactly what you're getting."

 

This has translated into a substantial premium for these books over their raw counterparts. That reputation = premium.

 

Understand the implication: every single blue label is suspect. And people are trying to say "well, that doesn't matter, nobody's perfect"...except that they are paid to BE perfect.

 

Because even if they were 99.999% perfect, it would still force everyone to go back to the bad old days of painstakingly examining every single book...which CGC is paid to do already...to see if there is restoration...only now, behind two layers of plastic, with a book that can no longer be examined from the inside. And, it forces everyone to become an expert in restoration detection on their own (not necessarily a bad thing, but neither a good one.)

 

Is Spider-Dan going to buy slabbed books anymore for a premium over raw? Highly doubtful.

 

And if you can only be "mostly sure" that the book is restoration free, and you can't even examine the book for yourself...well, then, why would anyone pay a premium for that?

 

It damages the entire market.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And for those playing the "nobody's perfect" card, let me bring up this point:

 

If you ordered a car from a dealership, and paid the market price for it, and it was missing, say, the GPS system, which you had paid for...would you say "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made"...?

 

Of course not. You would expect them to fix it, on their dime. And they would, or you simply wouldn't pay for it, because it's not what you ordered (or you would get a discount for the missing item.)

 

Or, say you're putting a new roof on your house, and the contractor was short a pack of shingles because they didn't order enough, leaving a small 2'x4' area exposed. Would you say "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made"....?

 

Of course not. You might wait patiently for them to GET the extra pack of shingles, but you wouldn't be satisfied until the job was 100% done to your specifications.

 

Or, say you're ordering 500 new uniforms for a large contract with Hilton, and your manufacturer sends you 497 perfect uniforms, but three that were manufactured without the left sleeve. Would you say "oh, well, no one's perfect", and then look for 3 one armed maids:.....? Hilton certainly wouldn't! They paid for 500 uniforms, they expect 500 PERFECT uniforms...and that's what they'll get, or they won't pay you, and that's for sure what you'll expect your manufacturer to deliver, or you won't pay them.

 

Nobody is, indeed, perfect...but the world operates on fixing errors UNTIL it's perfect (read: to the customer's satisfaction.)

 

Sadly, this doesn't apply to Spider-Dan's particular case, but those claiming the "too bad, you played the game and lost, no one's perfect" line...this is not how it is supposed to work. This is not subjective grading we're talking about here. This is quantitative, objective restoration. Either it's there, or it's not. And if it is MISSED...fine, no one's perfect, but then it's CGC's job to fix it, not have people buy the "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made, move along" line.

[shadroch]

 

That is not CGC's fault. That is the fault of a hyper-sensitive marketplace caring more about a book's marketable potential than its actual quality and eye-appeal. Mustard stain... -$200. Pinpoint ink to hide spine blemish... -$1000.

 

You've just given me an idea. If you have a tiny isolated spot of CT, would it behoove you to pour mustard over it ?

 

No, but it would behoove you to get Stan to SS it on that spot, using the same colored ink.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The first time I ever saw a book deslabbed was a dealer at a convention. After getting to the inner well, he pinched the edge and, in one quick motion, ripped it right off. I asked someone at CGC and they confirmed using this technique. Scary as it was, they said it was relatively easy. I did it, albeit, only a couple times.

Years later, when handing off a book to a Matt Nelson associate, they carefully used a scissors on the inner well. Though I don't deslab much, I now use scissors. Just curious, does everyone else use scissors ?

God, yes.

[Broke as a Joke]

But they (CGC) did "fix" it. They gave the books the proper grade now, catching a quality control error for the betterment of all collectors.

[DeliBebek]

But they (CGC) did "fix" it. They gave the books the proper grade now, catching a quality control error for the betterment of all collectors.

There's no way to know if they fixed something that was broken, or if they broke something that was fixed in the first place.

 

If the new grade is more accurate, it only changes the label on the slab, not the fact that the books were over-valued for years because of the missed restoration. You can blame the market, but CGC has a deep effect on the market.

[Spider-Dan]

And for those playing the "nobody's perfect" card, let me bring up this point:

 

If you ordered a car from a dealership, and paid the market price for it, and it was missing, say, the GPS system, which you had paid for...would you say "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made"...?

 

Of course not. You would expect them to fix it, on their dime. And they would, or you simply wouldn't pay for it, because it's not what you ordered (or you would get a discount for the missing item.)

 

Or, say you're putting a new roof on your house, and the contractor was short a pack of shingles because they didn't order enough, leaving a small 2'x4' area exposed. Would you say "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made"....?

 

Of course not. You might wait patiently for them to GET the extra pack of shingles, but you wouldn't be satisfied until the job was 100% done to your specifications.

 

Or, say you're ordering 500 new uniforms for a large contract with Hilton, and your manufacturer sends you 497 perfect uniforms, but three that were manufactured without the left sleeve. Would you say "oh, well, no one's perfect", and then look for 3 one armed maids:.....? Hilton certainly wouldn't! They paid for 500 uniforms, they expect 500 PERFECT uniforms...and that's what they'll get, or they won't pay you, and that's for sure what you'll expect your manufacturer to deliver, or you won't pay them.

 

Nobody is, indeed, perfect...but the world operates on fixing errors UNTIL it's perfect (read: to the customer's satisfaction.)

 

Sadly, this doesn't apply to Spider-Dan's particular case, but those claiming the "too bad, you played the game and lost, no one's perfect" line...this is not how it is supposed to work. This is not subjective grading we're talking about here. This is quantitative, objective restoration. Either it's there, or it's not. And if it is MISSED...fine, no one's perfect, but then it's CGC's job to fix it, not have people buy the "oh well, no one's perfect, mistakes are made, move along" line.

 

Well said sir, and your 100% correct