CGC Issue Resolved

[VintageComics]

Because CGC would then look at the label and grade them the same.

 

Which is not what happens but hey that is what the rumor is.

 

What if you walk them through, let them crack them out in the front lobby, as another poster has said they do, and then take the labels with you for "your records"? It is your slab after all, if you want to take the labels with you, you can, there would be no reason for CGC to keep them. And if they say, "We want them so we can adjust the census", you can just say you'll give them to them when you come back for your books. But at least then there is a "chain of custody" within CGC.

 

-J.

 

I think you are missing Bob's humour in his post. The graders don't know how the book came in...whether it was CGC graded, PGX graded or delivered by Pegasus.

 

If you ship it to CGC in a CGC holder, the admin/shipping- receiving/front end staff removes the book from the holder, places it in a mylar and puts a bar code on it (the Mylar, not the book ) . All the graders see is a book in a Mylar with a bar code on it.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Because CGC would then look at the label and grade them the same.

 

Which is not what happens but hey that is what the rumor is.

 

What if you walk them through, let them crack them out in the front lobby, as another poster has said they do, and then take the labels with you for "your records"? It is your slab after all, if you want to take the labels with you, you can, there would be no reason for CGC to keep them. And if they say, "We want them so we can adjust the census", you can just say you'll give them to them when you come back for your books. But at least then there is a "chain of custody" within CGC.

 

-J.

 

I think you are missing Bob's humour in his post. The graders don't know how the book came in...whether it was CGC graded, PGX graded or delivered by Pegasus.

 

If you ship it to CGC in a CGC holder, the admin/shipping- receiving/front end staff removes the book from the holder, places it in a mylar and puts a bar code on it (the Mylar, not the book ) . All the graders see is a book in a Mylar with a bar code on it.

 

 

Apologies, I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist so I actually didn't doubt the possibility that Bob was completely serious.

 

So it sounds like unless Dan wants to preview the books himself outside of the slab, as he has indicated he does, there is no reason for him to crack them out before sending them in....unless he gets them professionally pressed beforehand of course.

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

I don't think anybody is making excuses for CGC.

 

We all feel bad for Dan (and some of us have even experienced the same thing) but the reality is that nobody is 100% perfect, so nobody's service will ever be 100% perfect.

 

If the books were handed to CGC in holders and they found the resto sitting in blue labels then you could hold them to the mistake. Because the books were sent in already free of their holders, there isn't much obligation on their part from a legal standpoint to make any corrections.

 

And not all colour touch is found with a black light.

 

 

CGC not being perfect isn't the issue.

 

They put their reputation behind every blue label slab that says "You can buy this, and be sure that you're getting a book that hasn't been restored. We have the best restoration detectors in the business {and they do}, so when you buy a blue label, you know exactly what you're getting."

 

This has translated into a substantial premium for these books over their raw counterparts. That reputation = premium.

 

Understand the implication: every single blue label is suspect. And people are trying to say "well, that doesn't matter, nobody's perfect"...except that they are paid to BE perfect.

 

Because even if they were 99.999% perfect, it would still force everyone to go back to the bad old days of painstakingly examining every single book...which CGC is paid to do already...to see if there is restoration...only now, behind two layers of plastic, with a book that can no longer be examined from the inside. And, it forces everyone to become an expert in restoration detection on their own (not necessarily a bad thing, but neither a good one.)

 

Is Spider-Dan going to buy slabbed books anymore for a premium over raw? Highly doubtful.

 

And if you can only be "mostly sure" that the book is restoration free, and you can't even examine the book for yourself...well, then, why would anyone pay a premium for that?

 

It damages the entire market.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I just didn't take as much time to make a well rounded post like you did.

 

I'd disagree with some of your analogies in your other post though.

 

For example, to me it's not like getting 500 Hilton suits with the left arm missing or a truck with a wheel missing (or whatever analogy you want to use). It's more like getting 500 Hilton suits and the stitching on the lining is done poorly or a button is off center, or the truck has a crooked pinstripe. In reality it's a very subtle and small difference to what the product should be like but the value is affected greatly because of perception. This relationship of large value vs. small detail is where the conflict comes from.

 

I have to agree with Resurrection's frank, uncensored post - if you're going to play the game, taking a loss is a part of the game. Sometimes you learn the hard way, but you learn it nonetheless. There are many times in life when we jump without checking how deep the water is first because the allure of jumping is so great. I'll be the first to admit I'm guilty of doing that.

 

That's not saying that I don't feel for Dan or that CGC doesn't need to do a better job - I do feel for Dan. I've known him for years through this forum and have met him in person and CGC does need to do a better job, but the reality stands that if they receive a book in a Mylar they grade the book in front of them.

 

It's what everyone pays them to do.

 

 

[Boba]

Also if it is just a crack and resub, send the book in the slab. This way they have to cover if the book goes from blue to purple.

This seems like the crux of the issue - if they were submitted inside the slabs, I think CGC would be obligated to address the screw-up. If you crack the books out, I would assume you lose the coverage.

[comicwiz]

Because CGC would then look at the label and grade them the same.

 

Which is not what happens but hey that is what the rumor is.

 

What if you walk them through, let them crack them out in the front lobby, as another poster has said they do, and then take the labels with you for "your records"? It is your slab after all, if you want to take the labels with you, you can, there would be no reason for CGC to keep them. And if they say, "We want them so we can adjust the census", you can just say you'll give them to them when you come back for your books. But at least then there is a "chain of custody" within CGC.

 

-J.

 

I think you are missing Bob's humour in his post. The graders don't know how the book came in...whether it was CGC graded, PGX graded or delivered by Pegasus.

 

As much as it may be an attempt at humour, it appears from the language used in Mark's response to my past question on the subject that the condition to be made financially whole in such situations is for the book to be submitted in a slab. In fairness, Mark was originally responding to the question based on a scenario where the book passed through CCS.

 

That said, I think it's a fair a point to bring this up in the current discussion about the blue to purple resub, being the OP is caught up in the situation, and it's remotely worth noting that a lot of people (myself included) are interested to see how CGC handles this "out of slab" resubmission situation.

[VintageComics]

So it sounds like unless Dan wants to preview the books himself outside of the slab, as he has indicated he does, there is no reason for him to crack them out before sending them in....unless he gets them professionally pressed beforehand of course.

 

-J.

 

Could be. Risk / reward. Everyone has a difference tolerance.

 

 

[VintageComics]

As much as it may be an attempt at humour, it appears from the language used in Mark's response to my past question on the subject that the condition to be made financially whole in such situations is for the book to be submitted in a slab. In fairness, Mark was originally responding to the question based on a scenario where the book passed through CCS.

 

That said, I think it's a fair a point to bring this up in the current discussion about the blue to purple resub, being the OP is caught up in the situation, and it's remotely worth noting that a lot of people (myself included) are interested to see how CGC handles this "out of slab" resubmission situation.

 

Yup, it's a fair discussion to have.

 

Reputation is everything.

[Jaydogrules]

As much as it may be an attempt at humour, it appears from the language used in Mark's response to my past question on the subject that the condition to be made financially whole in such situations is for the book to be submitted in a slab. In fairness, Mark was originally responding to the question based on a scenario where the book passed through CCS.

 

That said, I think it's a fair a point to bring this up in the current discussion about the blue to purple resub, being the OP is caught up in the situation, and it's remotely worth noting that a lot of people (myself included) are interested to see how CGC handles this "out of slab" resubmission situation.

 

Yup, it's a fair discussion to have.

 

Reputation is everything.

 

I would imagine that Dan saved the original blue labels. Seems to me he could send the books back in, with the labels for a re-holder and see what happens. Of course CGC will check for "integrity of grade" again since the books are not in the slab, but it would seem to make it a bit more unreasonable for them to then say "Hey wait, these have restoration on them", with the original blue labels, and books that look very consistent with those grades, in hand. Although not impossible, it is highly unlikely someone would crack out a legitimate 6.0 JIM83, to try to get a crappier copy into that 6.0 holder through CGC.

 

And of course, Dan should make full colour copies of the labels before he sends them in.

 

Just brainstorming a little. I think Dan's issue can be rectified here.

 

-J.

[comeaux]

Also if it is just a crack and resub, send the book in the slab. This way they have to cover if the book goes from blue to purple.

This seems like the crux of the issue - if they were submitted inside the slabs, I think CGC would be obligated to address the screw-up. If you crack the books out, I would assume you lose the coverage.

 

 

 

[blazingbob]

I would be more interested in knowing who did the restoration check the first time and who did it now.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I would be more interested in knowing who did the restoration check the first time and who did it now.

 

 

Noone

 

Someone

[telerites]

As much as it may be an attempt at humour, it appears from the language used in Mark's response to my past question on the subject that the condition to be made financially whole in such situations is for the book to be submitted in a slab. In fairness, Mark was originally responding to the question based on a scenario where the book passed through CCS.

 

That said, I think it's a fair a point to bring this up in the current discussion about the blue to purple resub, being the OP is caught up in the situation, and it's remotely worth noting that a lot of people (myself included) are interested to see how CGC handles this "out of slab" resubmission situation.

 

Yup, it's a fair discussion to have.

 

Reputation is everything.

 

I would imagine that Dan saved the original blue labels. Seems to me he could send the books back in, with the labels for a re-holder and see what happens. Of course CGC will check for "integrity of grade" again since the books are not in the slab, but it would seem to make it a bit more unreasonable for them to then say "Hey wait, these have restoration on them", with the original blue labels, and books that look very consistent with those grades, in hand. Although not impossible, it is highly unlikely someone would crack out a legitimate 6.0 JIM83, to try to get a crappier copy into that 6.0 holder through CGC.

 

And of course, Dan should make full colour copies of the labels before he sends them in.

 

Just brainstorming a little. I think Dan's issue can be rectified here.

 

-J.

 

They's have to be in their slabs (without any signs of tampering) in order to do a reholder.

[jimbo_707]

Im not sure how confident I can be in CGC graded books anymore. I resubbed 2 books for walkthrough grading, and got results today.

 

Both books were Universal Blue labels

 

Journey into Mystery CGC 6.0 - book was killer, and I thought it was much better. Came back a 7.0

 

Avengers 1 CGC 7.0 - book looked nice, but once it was cracked, regret set in as it was not as nice as the assigned grade. Came back a 6.0

 

Both books came back RESTORED.

 

How does that happen?? The Avengers has CT, and the JIM is top cover trimmed!!

 

That is unacceptable. If its in a slab as unrestored, regardless of when its graded, we as buyers, or collectors should feel confident that the book is unrestored.

 

I called and asked them to please look them over again. They said they would, but they obviously didn't because they were marked "shipped" within 1/2 hr or so

 

Wow, ouch. Were they both in old labels? Before they had restoration detection down? In any case that really hurts.

Nobody has ever suggested that CGC catches all, or even most, restoration. Cleaning and trimming in particular are hard to detect. It's disappointing that they missed the CT, though; even I could detect most CT (at least I think I could).

[Jaydogrules]

As much as it may be an attempt at humour, it appears from the language used in Mark's response to my past question on the subject that the condition to be made financially whole in such situations is for the book to be submitted in a slab. In fairness, Mark was originally responding to the question based on a scenario where the book passed through CCS.

 

That said, I think it's a fair a point to bring this up in the current discussion about the blue to purple resub, being the OP is caught up in the situation, and it's remotely worth noting that a lot of people (myself included) are interested to see how CGC handles this "out of slab" resubmission situation.

 

Yup, it's a fair discussion to have.

 

Reputation is everything.

 

I would imagine that Dan saved the original blue labels. Seems to me he could send the books back in, with the labels for a re-holder and see what happens. Of course CGC will check for "integrity of grade" again since the books are not in the slab, but it would seem to make it a bit more unreasonable for them to then say "Hey wait, these have restoration on them", with the original blue labels, and books that look very consistent with those grades, in hand. Although not impossible, it is highly unlikely someone would crack out a legitimate 6.0 JIM83, to try to get a crappier copy into that 6.0 holder through CGC.

 

And of course, Dan should make full colour copies of the labels before he sends them in.

 

Just brainstorming a little. I think Dan's issue can be rectified here.

 

-J.

 

They's have to be in their slabs (without any signs of tampering) in order to do a reholder.

 

Yes I know CGC will not technically do a straight "re-holder" if they are out of the slabs. But CGC invites you to send your books in with the original labels and have them "re-certified" for integrity of grade if you have cracked them out for whatever reason. Why can't Dan simply do this? As I said, it is highly unlikely someone would crack out a legitimate 6.0 JIM83 to try to run a scam and get CGC to re-certify another obviously lower grade copy into a 6.0 holder.

There would literally be no point in doing something like that.

 

 

-J.

[slym2none]

If Stan Lee does the CT, can it be considered a type of signature?

 

Have you seen the ASM with the spider he drew on it?

 

 

 

 

-slym

[blazingbob]

It is called a "review" and you can send a book in to see if it would grade higher. If it has a shot they will crack it out, if not they will send the book back in the original holder.

 

But again, that would be one way. The other is to crack and resubmit it and try to get a new set of eyes to grade it higher.

 

And frankly with CGC grading tight right now I'm not understanding that logic.

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

 

But CGC invites you to send your books in with the original labels and have them "re-certified" for integrity of grade if you have cracked them out for whatever reason.

-J.

 

I don't think this statement is true. To have a book re-certified the book has to be in the slab. Out of the slab, even with label, this is a regrading. The difference is both financial and procedural.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Regarding the Ewert list, this book was not on the list. Years ago I sent in a book that was on the Ewert list and they issued me a new cert number. I think the reasoning was the old cert number was a scarlet letter.

[Boba]

 

But CGC invites you to send your books in with the original labels and have them "re-certified" for integrity of grade if you have cracked them out for whatever reason.

-J.

 

I don't think this statement is true. To have a book re-certified the book has to be in the slab. Out of the slab, even with label, this is a regrading. The difference is both financial and procedural.

 

But it eliminates the "no question of doubt" the book has been adulterated, when the book is removed prior to them getting it. No matter how honest anyone is, unless they receive it still inside the slab, there is a question.

[miraclemet]

I still think trying to compare a straight manufacturing model (like the truck and uniform and roofing) examples to the "informed opinion grading/ restoration assessment" part of the CGC package is fallacious logic.

 

A more appropriate parallel would be to another opinion based service like stock advisors. They sell their informed opinions. The good ones with good history succeed, the bad ones do not. CGC is currently one of the "good ones" but these examples of "bad opinions" are creating an erosion of customer confidence.