Raffle vs Mystery Box - why is one ok and not the other?

[1Cool]

For those not involved - I had a fun idea to sell 100 spots for $5 a piece with each spot receiving a comic book. A book would have been drawn randomly for each spot with the "prize" being a nice Fantastic Four 52 and a mid grade Conan 1. A couple other nice books were included but 90 out of the 100 books were $1/$2 books. I wasn't really making much money on the deal but at least I was selling off 90 harder to sell books and having some fun in the process. Needless to say the thread was pulled after a day due to raffles being not allowed because of legal concerns. Is this a new rule?

 

I've cancelled the raffle but I do have a question what the difference is between a raffle and a mystery box? I guess the only difference I can see is each of the mystery boxes are suppose to be basically equal in value but I think this is difficult to do and even more of a turn-off for a customer. Why buy something you can't see unless there is a chance to win a "prize" book in the end. Any thoughts on why my concept was pulled and mystery boxes are allowed?

 

I will say the Mods probably made the right choice in the long run because I had 5 or 6 people contact me saying they planned on running a raffle similar to mine and we would have been flooded with raffles if mine would have gone through. Was that the reason for this possibly new rule?

[Boboset]

Just sell mystery boxes and preview the big books. It's really the same thing, but it doesn't put the forum in a potentially precarious legal situation.

[Boboset]

 

I will say the Mods probably made the right choice in the long run because I had 5 or 6 people contact me saying they planned on running a raffle similar to mine and we would have been flooded with raffles if mine would have gone through. Was that the reason for this possibly new rule?

It might be kind of fun marketing, and people may even like it - but it can also be for-profit gambling, which is regulated and has legal restrictions. I don't think we can be involved in sorting that out, so they have to go.

[1Cool]

Just sell mystery boxes and preview the big books. It's really the same thing, but it doesn't put the forum in a potentially precarious legal situation.

 

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool? I don't see the distinction and I'm worried I would have been accused of trying to get around the rules.

 

I did a similar raffle earlier in the year except people had to buy $20 worth of books to get a raffle ticket and that went over without a hitch. I know a couple people bought books in order to get in the raffle so did I break the new rule by going to this format?

[Boboset]

Just sell mystery boxes and preview the big books. It's really the same thing, but it doesn't put the forum in a potentially precarious legal situation.

 

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool? I don't see the distinction and I'm worried I would have been accused of trying to get around the rules.

 

I did a similar raffle earlier in the year except people had to buy $20 worth of books to get a raffle ticket and that went over without a hitch. I know a couple people bought books in order to get in the raffle so did I break the new rule by going to this format?

Well, now you'd be accused of trying to get around the rules.

 

The distinction is subtle but clear. A raffle is legally recognized gambling terminology. Mystery boxes are... mysterious?

 

This discussion could very well kill mystery boxes on this forum.

[1Cool]

Just sell mystery boxes and preview the big books. It's really the same thing, but it doesn't put the forum in a potentially precarious legal situation.

 

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool? I don't see the distinction and I'm worried I would have been accused of trying to get around the rules.

 

I did a similar raffle earlier in the year except people had to buy $20 worth of books to get a raffle ticket and that went over without a hitch. I know a couple people bought books in order to get in the raffle so did I break the new rule by going to this format?

Well, now you'd be accused of trying to get around the rules.

 

The distinction is subtle but clear. A raffle is legally recognized gambling terminology. Mystery boxes are... mysterious?

 

This discussion could very well kill mystery boxes on this forum.

 

Not my intent but I do not see a clear distinction between the two sales tactics. I like to push the boundaries of sales tactics but I do want to follow the rules of the boards but I have a hard time doing that if the rules are unclear.

[joe_collector]

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool?

 

No, he means a Mystery BOX (as in singular) - selling a single verifiable product to a customer.

 

Personally, I don't think Mystery Box auctions are that above-board either, but I think Arch consulted CGC legal and that's what they advised.

[Balham's Finest]

So what if each of the 100 comics that was being raffled was put into a box then, and $5 bought you one box - that's OK?

 

I agree it's not easy to see where the line is.

[Jeffro.]

Seems very clear to me. No raffles allowed.

 

You want to sell mystery boxes? Go for it

[joe_collector]

This discussion could very well kill mystery boxes on this forum.

 

Not really, as if someone puts up 100 mystery boxes containing different items, then it's a raffle. Box, paper bag, whatever, it's doesn't matter the packaging, it's the format that counts.

[1Cool]

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool?

 

No, he means a Mystery BOX (as in singular) - selling a single verifiable product to a customer.

 

Personally, I don't think Mystery Box auctions are that above-board either, but I think Arch consulted CGC legal and that's what they advised.

 

Oh well - fun idea that got shot down.

[joe_collector]

So what if each of the 100 comics that was being raffled was put into a box then, and $5 bought you one box - that's OK?

 

Nope, that's a raffle. Think about it people, it's the FORMAT that counts, not the packaging, and I never saw Arch say it's okay to raffle off 100 Mystery Boxes, and it's always been a BOX in the singular, like any other verifiable product.

 

Whatever it is, is whatever it is, but there's no multi-participant format with winners and losers.

[1Cool]

Seems very clear to me. No raffles allowed.

 

You want to sell mystery boxes? Go for it

 

If you say that one of the boxes contain a key book then its considered a raffle because its not a mystery anymore?

[joe_collector]

So if I would have called it 100 mystery boxes instead of just selling spots in a comic raffle then it would have been cool?

 

No, he means a Mystery BOX (as in singular) - selling a single verifiable product to a customer.

 

Personally, I don't think Mystery Box auctions are that above-board either, but I think Arch consulted CGC legal and that's what they advised.

 

Oh well - fun idea that got shot down.

 

Just remember the problem wasn't your auction on a personal level, but that if the raffle format was condoned, *anyone* could use the same format, potentially to rip people off and get CGC into legal hot water.

[1Cool]

So what if each of the 100 comics that was being raffled was put into a box then, and $5 bought you one box - that's OK?

 

Nope, that's a raffle. Think about it people, it's the FORMAT that counts, not the packaging, and I never saw Arch say it's okay to raffle off 100 Mystery Boxes, and it's always been a BOX in the singular, like any other verifiable product.

 

Whatever it is, is whatever it is, but there's no multi-participant format with winners and losers.

 

I think you have missed several mystery box sales that had multiple mystery boxes available. There was one set up in the recent VCC. I do think the past mystery box sales have not had one or two "chase" books and a bunch of filler which may be the reason the mystery box format is ok.

[Jeffro.]

Seems very clear to me. No raffles allowed.

 

You want to sell mystery boxes? Go for it

 

If you say that one of the boxes contain a key book then its considered a raffle because its not a mystery anymore?

 

Are you raffling off that mystery box or just selling it at a set price?

 

It's all about how it's being done, not what's in the box

Raffle format = not allowed

Set Price format = allowed

[Boboset]

So what if each of the 100 comics that was being raffled was put into a box then, and $5 bought you one box - that's OK?

 

Nope, that's a raffle. Think about it people, it's the FORMAT that counts, not the packaging, and I never saw Arch say it's okay to raffle off 100 Mystery Boxes, and it's always been a BOX in the singular, like any other verifiable product.

 

Whatever it is, is whatever it is, but there's no multi-participant format with winners and losers.

I thought it was the wording that counts. There's been tons of mystery box sales that are run exactly like the raffle example above, maybe not at a quantity of 100 but commonly around 20 or so. It's the recent few being offered as "raffles" that forced the new rule.

[Boboset]

Andrew, a $5 raffle entry always got you a single book, right?

[Balham's Finest]

So what if each of the 100 comics that was being raffled was put into a box then, and $5 bought you one box - that's OK?

 

Nope, that's a raffle. Think about it people, it's the FORMAT that counts, not the packaging, and I never saw Arch say it's okay to raffle off 100 Mystery Boxes, and it's always been a BOX in the singular, like any other verifiable product.

 

Whatever it is, is whatever it is, but there's no multi-participant format with winners and losers.

I thought it was the wording that counts. There's been tons of mystery box sales that are run exactly like the raffle example above, maybe not at a quantity of 100 but commonly around 20 or so. It's the recent few being offered as "raffles" that forced the new rule.

 

Yes, exactly. Lots of mystery box sales where there are say 20 boxes available at a fixed price. Each of the boxes is of roughly equivalent value except that one or two will have a "chase" book or slab.

 

This format has been used plenty of times over the last few months with no problems.

[1Cool]

Seems very clear to me. No raffles allowed.

 

You want to sell mystery boxes? Go for it

 

If you say that one of the boxes contain a key book then its considered a raffle because its not a mystery anymore?

 

Are you raffling off that mystery box or just selling it at a set price?

 

It's all about how it's being done, not what's in the box

Raffle format = not allowed

Set Price format = allowed

 

I sold a spot which could have been called a box but I wanted to call it what it was. Each spot bought a random or mystery book. I planned to pull random spots from a hat rather than putting books into boxes and selling the boxes. The scope of my sales thread was bigger than most so I'm assuming that is what got it pulled. Glad I tested the water first - my first thought was to do a $10 per spot one with a Stg Fury 5 CGC 9.0 as the prize book.