Old Comic Shows - Before the Days of the Mega Conventions

[jpepx78]

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo

 

[The-Collector]

I am in Australia. We have very little of anything. A few conventions is about it.

[songsaboutclouds]

I set up at Thought Bubble in the UK last year in Leeds

then watched as hundreds of people in costume wandered around chatting with their friends.

Set up not including stock or food cost me around £250 ($415),

takings reached the giddy heights of £300 ($500) for the 2 days.

Minimum of 5000 people each day through the doors.

 

Luckily we have a small comic mart in the same town which I was at 2 weeks later.

 

Set up not including stock or food cost me around £30 ($50),

takings reached the giddy heights of £550 ($915) for the 4 hours.

Maybe 100 people through the doors

[Goldeneye]

I am sorry, but you guys are living in the past here. A convention needs to evolve over the years or it will die. I have been apart of many committees for cons the biggest reason a con succeeds or fails is how well does the organization accept newcomers and is willing to change with the times. I am currently watching one con fail right now because they don't want to change and they only want to throw a con for adults aka their friends 50 and older. I am sorry this is what the thread sounds like. Yes times has changed in the dealers room we are starting to learn who the guests are way in advance and buy the material we want to get signed in advance, order commissions from artists, and pay for an autograph. I am known for spending 3 to 5 grand at a con in the dealers room, but with exception of CGC fees, purchase of a blank comic for a talent I missed or a new local artist, and paying for onsite commissions/autograph fees the regular dealer will not see a dime of it. The only two problems I see at the big cons is a they double in size each year they are not ready for the increase and I have no problem with Cosplayers in costume, but man a convention needs to decide what is the biggest prop a cosplayer can carry for safety issues. Last year at an artists booth I sponsored I watch a cosplayer in a Halo uniform turn around with his large gun prop that must of had a ten foot barrel hit a 5 year old in the head accidentally knocked the kid out and as well as caused him to bleed profusely.

[g-man]

I attended and set up a few times at the shows at the old 57 Park Plaza in Boston...mid to late 80s into the 90s. Early on it was pretty good. My 1st show attending was Teddy Van Liew's 1st show setting up. I made a few deals w him that day and still have one of the books. Went down hill a bit when Monkey Business or some such name took over. Guy who ran it was a bit out there.

 

I went to that show often in the 80s/90s but remember it being in the Raddison in later years? That's where I first met Ted, Harley, Jim Payette, Steve Borock and many others.

 

My last one was 1999 before I moved here to CA. Then it was Primate Productions run by Dave Cummings (?).

 

Overall it was a good show. Lots of SA and GA books and more comic books than anything else.. Still have good memories of it, although Dave could be a little frenetic.

 

Yes it did turn into the Radisson at some point there in the early 90s I think. There were some new guys at almost every show and it was both affordable and somewhat organized. Plus they let u in early for a few $ extra. I remember set up fees were in the range of $75 for a 6 foot table.

[Dale Roberts]

I know I'm personally hedging my bets on going to the Wizard World St. Louis con next month. I went last year and had trouble navigating the place due to the amount of people attending, only a small percentage of which were there for comic books-smaller even for those buying vintage.

 

On top of that, the Wizard website has a list of dealers who will be there, and I notice many big dealers who were there last year aren't on the list.

 

So, for now, it's a "no" for me. Just too many headaches for what could be very little payoff.

 

Kind of a rub there.

 

If the show was good for all those dealers last year, then they would be back. If people like you quit going, then soon, there won't be a show there.

 

If you as a comic buyer want an opportunity to purchase good books, then you need to do your part. Dealers don't do this because we love to spend time on the road. Its about selling books. It costs a lot of money to set up at these shows and multiply your small headache by about a thousand. If you don't want to fight the crowd, then don't complain because no dealers want to show up.

[chrisco37]

In the early 80s the Jubilee (Diamond?) shows in the DC area were great. Usually in a HoJos or some hotel like that it was just massive amounts of comics. Period. Later (still in the 80s) the shows started to blend. Trekkers and comic geeks cohabitated. Looking up from your spot on the floor, digging through a box of X-Men, you could see Scottie or Checkov walk by. Then you'd bury yourself back in the comic box. Fond memories.

 

The Jubilee shows were great back then (I was going in late 80's, early 90's). And the local shows here in the DC area (although I haven't been to one in awhile) were always a good time. Rick F (Capt Comics) has a really nice quarterly show in the Charlotte NC area.

 

As good as those shows are, I prefer the larger shows. I hate the crowds (and they have gotten a lot bigger over the years), but that's where you find the best selection of books. Where else am I going to be able to see Bob Storms, Dale Roberts, A1, JV, Superworld, etc...? Al doesn't even set up at every one. Not at one of the local shows, that's for sure. I think Harley once came to one of the DC/VA shows.

 

The problem with the local shows (when I was going regularly) is you see the same old books every time.

 

That said, it's been awhile since I've been and I actually contacted Donut just last week to find out when the next one is.

[gregreece]

I was just about to start a thread asking if we, comic fans, are victims of our own success.

 

I just got in from Planet Comicon last night and having rested a bit, was mulling the whole experience over. I have to say, it was not a good one.

 

For the show itself, I am not impressed. I had to pay $45 to get $10 worth of comic show. I heard this show being compared to Wizard shows and if that is truly the case, then the whole convention scene is doomed. However, if you like steampunk, toys, costuming supplies, fantasy artists, t-shirts, or artists who are really good at pinups but can't tell a story then this show is for you.

 

NONE of the typical good dealers in older books were there. Dale Roberts, Harley Yee, Motor CIty Comics, and Graham Crackers were AWOL. For the first time I can remember, I never once saw Chuck roaming around. I guess the word is out that this isn't a comic show anymore. Warp 9 was there but for the first time I can remember, I didn't get anything from them. I don't know if that is an indictment of their selection or my lack of knowledge on what new booksto look for.

 

I acted as a CAW too, and that took so much time that I think I missed pretty much everything I had any interest in. I tried to remember who I wanted to go back and see, but my damaged brain didn't remember any of them until about 0700 this morning. That would be fine but I am home now, 4 hours away from the show.

 

On a lighter note, I did get to spend some time with Neal Adams without a gaggle of fans or his wife around. I got a sweet companion piece to my Green Arrow sketch from last year as well as a really nice Deadman sketch. I also enjoyed spending time with Tony Moore and Skottie Young, but those were cut short before I could make any purchases. I sincerely hope to catch them at another show someday. JJ had a nice booth and I'll have to hit him up to see if any of the interesting pieces are still available once he gets home, I just wanted out of the show too bad to think straight. Matt Kindt, Brian Hurtt, and Cullen Bunn were fun to talk to, as always, but I forgot to go back and get a page from Mr. Kindt. I hate to say it, but when we left Saturday at 3-ish, I didn't want anything but that convention center shrinking in my rearview mirror.

 

It was cool that I had a friend of mine come with me that has not been to a show in 20+ years. He has a passing interest in comics at best, but enjoys the spectacle of it all. He commented on how different it was from what he remembered. He said that he didn't remember so many elaborate costumes. He thought that in the past, it seemed more like people wanted to dress like their heroes than to get any real attention. He also thought it was weird that a "comicon" had so few comics available in it and that so much of the stuff for sale was less comic than geek culture. I mention his opinions both because he is out of the loop and his opinions are mine as well. I was just concerned because I am on the inside of comics all the time and maybe I remember the "good ole days" as being brighter than they really were.

 

To those of you from the boards, it was nice to meet you! Don't take any of this as a reflection of you, it is the show itself that I am critical of as well as the type of fans that type of show is bringing in. It feels like comic fans wanted a wider acceptance and now that others are seeking the same, we want to retract back into out holes and revel in our outsider status. I don't think that we are more widely accepted now so much as it is that others are just glomming on and making us feel alienated in what was our own world for so many years.

 

Sounds a lot like the Indiana Comic Con that I just left.

 

There was a tremendous crowd. If I had to guess, over 3000 on Friday, well over 10,000 on Saturday, and probably 5 or 6000.00 today. Hundreds and hundreds of kids in costume. Thousands of people with absolutely no interest in buying anything.

 

The comic con of today is what the mall was to kids in the 1980s. They just go there to hang out all day. They want to see their friends, want to see all the stuff, but are not there to contribute to the hobby in any way. They make the show promoters money, and no one else.

 

I would much rather go to a show with 2000 comic collectors than 20,000 people with no money and no interest in comics of any kind.

 

 

+1

 

[lambfan68]

I've been to this one a few times and I agree with your description. I like the focus on shopping.

 

I'll have to remember to put the June show on the calendar.

 

 

There are still little local conventions. Here is a link to a bunch in the Midwest--

 

http://www.epguides.com/comics/schedule.shtml

 

I go to the one in Moundsview MN whenever I am able to. It's free to get in and is held in a hotel conference room. The last time I asked one of the dealers, I think the tables were $20-$30 each.

 

I take my nephew and he buys all the books he can carry out of the bargain boxes.

 

The main problem with the convention is that you see mostly the same comics as the last time you were there. The local dealers don't bring enough fresh inventory to really make going every time worthwhile to me.

 

It is still a fun little convention though.

 

[Transplant]

I know I'm personally hedging my bets on going to the Wizard World St. Louis con next month. I went last year and had trouble navigating the place due to the amount of people attending, only a small percentage of which were there for comic books-smaller even for those buying vintage.

 

On top of that, the Wizard website has a list of dealers who will be there, and I notice many big dealers who were there last year aren't on the list.

 

So, for now, it's a "no" for me. Just too many headaches for what could be very little payoff.

 

Kind of a rub there.

 

If the show was good for all those dealers last year, then they would be back. If people like you quit going, then soon, there won't be a show there.

 

If you as a comic buyer want an opportunity to purchase good books, then you need to do your part. Dealers don't do this because we love to spend time on the road. Its about selling books. It costs a lot of money to set up at these shows and multiply your small headache by about a thousand. If you don't want to fight the crowd, then don't complain because no dealers want to show up.

Last year was WW STL's first year, so expect some hiccups. I believe Peter from Wizard told me they were getting more space for the 2014 show. But don't hold me to that.

[MedicAR]

I know I'm personally hedging my bets on going to the Wizard World St. Louis con next month. I went last year and had trouble navigating the place due to the amount of people attending, only a small percentage of which were there for comic books-smaller even for those buying vintage.

 

On top of that, the Wizard website has a list of dealers who will be there, and I notice many big dealers who were there last year aren't on the list.

 

So, for now, it's a "no" for me. Just too many headaches for what could be very little payoff.

 

Kind of a rub there.

 

If the show was good for all those dealers last year, then they would be back. If people like you quit going, then soon, there won't be a show there.

 

If you as a comic buyer want an opportunity to purchase good books, then you need to do your part. Dealers don't do this because we love to spend time on the road. Its about selling books. It costs a lot of money to set up at these shows and multiply your small headache by about a thousand. If you don't want to fight the crowd, then don't complain because no dealers want to show up.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the two of you are actually in agreement. I think Mego is saying the dealers aren't coming back despite the crowds. I read it as he agrees that it is something of a mall for the kids and they just wander around, not buying anything which means the good dealers leave the show behind.

[MedicAR]

I was just about to start a thread asking if we, comic fans, are victims of our own success.

 

I just got in from Planet Comicon last night and having rested a bit, was mulling the whole experience over. I have to say, it was not a good one.

 

For the show itself, I am not impressed. I had to pay $45 to get $10 worth of comic show. I heard this show being compared to Wizard shows and if that is truly the case, then the whole convention scene is doomed. However, if you like steampunk, toys, costuming supplies, fantasy artists, t-shirts, or artists who are really good at pinups but can't tell a story then this show is for you.

 

NONE of the typical good dealers in older books were there. Dale Roberts, Harley Yee, Motor CIty Comics, and Graham Crackers were AWOL. For the first time I can remember, I never once saw Chuck roaming around. I guess the word is out that this isn't a comic show anymore. Warp 9 was there but for the first time I can remember, I didn't get anything from them. I don't know if that is an indictment of their selection or my lack of knowledge on what new booksto look for.

 

I acted as a CAW too, and that took so much time that I think I missed pretty much everything I had any interest in. I tried to remember who I wanted to go back and see, but my damaged brain didn't remember any of them until about 0700 this morning. That would be fine but I am home now, 4 hours away from the show.

 

On a lighter note, I did get to spend some time with Neal Adams without a gaggle of fans or his wife around. I got a sweet companion piece to my Green Arrow sketch from last year as well as a really nice Deadman sketch. I also enjoyed spending time with Tony Moore and Skottie Young, but those were cut short before I could make any purchases. I sincerely hope to catch them at another show someday. JJ had a nice booth and I'll have to hit him up to see if any of the interesting pieces are still available once he gets home, I just wanted out of the show too bad to think straight. Matt Kindt, Brian Hurtt, and Cullen Bunn were fun to talk to, as always, but I forgot to go back and get a page from Mr. Kindt. I hate to say it, but when we left Saturday at 3-ish, I didn't want anything but that convention center shrinking in my rearview mirror.

 

It was cool that I had a friend of mine come with me that has not been to a show in 20+ years. He has a passing interest in comics at best, but enjoys the spectacle of it all. He commented on how different it was from what he remembered. He said that he didn't remember so many elaborate costumes. He thought that in the past, it seemed more like people wanted to dress like their heroes than to get any real attention. He also thought it was weird that a "comicon" had so few comics available in it and that so much of the stuff for sale was less comic than geek culture. I mention his opinions both because he is out of the loop and his opinions are mine as well. I was just concerned because I am on the inside of comics all the time and maybe I remember the "good ole days" as being brighter than they really were.

 

To those of you from the boards, it was nice to meet you! Don't take any of this as a reflection of you, it is the show itself that I am critical of as well as the type of fans that type of show is bringing in. It feels like comic fans wanted a wider acceptance and now that others are seeking the same, we want to retract back into out holes and revel in our outsider status. I don't think that we are more widely accepted now so much as it is that others are just glomming on and making us feel alienated in what was our own world for so many years.

 

Sounds a lot like the Indiana Comic Con that I just left.

 

There was a tremendous crowd. If I had to guess, over 3000 on Friday, well over 10,000 on Saturday, and probably 5 or 6000.00 today. Hundreds and hundreds of kids in costume. Thousands of people with absolutely no interest in buying anything.

 

The comic con of today is what the mall was to kids in the 1980s. They just go there to hang out all day. They want to see their friends, want to see all the stuff, but are not there to contribute to the hobby in any way. They make the show promoters money, and no one else.

 

I would much rather go to a show with 2000 comic collectors than 20,000 people with no money and no interest in comics of any kind.

 

 

I really hate to read that, especially for your sake. I remember thinking at one point that it was probably good that you didn't come to KC and that you were likely making some good money at a more comic oriented show.

 

Personally, I think the solution may be to ban the costumes. Take away the "look at me" aspect that seems to pull in so many of the less desirables and the comics people might return - both buyers and sellers.

[RCheli]

I went to a few Jubilee shows in the mid-to-late 80s when they would come up into Allentown. The older woman who ran the shows (I cannot remember her name for the life of me) was interesting and a bit of a curmudgeon. She always had one or two decent artists, though. Ron Frenz or Marshall Rogers or someone.

 

I went to many more Great Eastern shows in New Jersey and New York, mostly because I would tag along and work for a guy (when he regular helper couldn't). Fred's shows (and Fred himself and his wife, Nancy) were always interesting. He just got bigger and bigger and bigger until -- poof -- he crashed like the rest of the industry. That Javitz debacle was something to behold.

[MedicAR]

I am sorry, but you guys are living in the past here. A convention needs to evolve over the years or it will die. I have been apart of many committees for cons the biggest reason a con succeeds or fails is how well does the organization accept newcomers and is willing to change with the times. I am currently watching one con fail right now because they don't want to change and they only want to throw a con for adults aka their friends 50 and older. I am sorry this is what the thread sounds like. Yes times has changed in the dealers room we are starting to learn who the guests are way in advance and buy the material we want to get signed in advance, order commissions from artists, and pay for an autograph. I am known for spending 3 to 5 grand at a con in the dealers room, but with exception of CGC fees, purchase of a blank comic for a talent I missed or a new local artist, and paying for onsite commissions/autograph fees the regular dealer will not see a dime of it. The only two problems I see at the big cons is a they double in size each year they are not ready for the increase and I have no problem with Cosplayers in costume, but man a convention needs to decide what is the biggest prop a cosplayer can carry for safety issues. Last year at an artists booth I sponsored I watch a cosplayer in a Halo uniform turn around with his large gun prop that must of had a ten foot barrel hit a 5 year old in the head accidentally knocked the kid out and as well as caused him to bleed profusely.

 

I don't think we are living in the past. We want the "comic convention" that was advertised, not a bunch of people in costumes clogging the aisles while not buying anything. If they want to dress up and play, let them have cosplay cons. I freely admit that part of the fun is getting autographs and meeting entertainers and such, but if I had to give that up to return to a pure comic convention, then that is fine by me. There were a few that had props that were way too big, too. I saw a giant gun like you mentioned as well as two different Harley Quinns with absurdly huge mallets that they had difficulty navigating with.

 

One of my problems this weekend was that the dealers that created problems (traffic wise) were not selling much, if anything, related to comics. They were selling jewelry and t-shirts. I guess it is good that somebody made some money, but unfortunately, those dealers will likely tell other similar dealers about their success while the comics dealers will tell their friends how poorly they did and the comic related business will continue to decline.

 

If I'm paying to attend a comic con, then I want the focus to be on comics. If I am attending an autograph or pop culture con, then all bets are off. I guess what I really want is a little truth in labeling.

[chrisco37]

I went to a few Jubilee shows in the mid-to-late 80s when they would come up into Allentown. The older woman who ran the shows (I cannot remember her name for the life of me) was interesting and a bit of a curmudgeon. She always had one or two decent artists, though. Ron Frenz or Marshall Rogers or someone.

 

I went to many more Great Eastern shows in New Jersey and New York, mostly because I would tag along and work for a guy (when he regular helper couldn't). Fred's shows (and Fred himself and his wife, Nancy) were always interesting. He just got bigger and bigger and bigger until -- poof -- he crashed like the rest of the industry. That Javitz debacle was something to behold.

 

Those were exactly the two artists I met at one of the Jubilee shows.

[RCheli]

Ron Frenz or Marshall Rogers or someone.

 

 

Those were exactly the two artists I met at one of the Jubilee shows.

 

I got a sketch of Daredevil from Frenz -- penciled and inked -- for $5, I think. This was in 1988 or so. He was a nice guy.

[joe_collector]

I was just about to start a thread asking if we, comic fans, are victims of our own success.

 

Hardly, and these new mega-shows have virtually nothing to do with comic books, and everything to do with corporate America trying to squeeze brainless nerds for every penny they own through the 'ho'ing and pimping of licensed superhero movies, TV and other media.

[joe_collector]

Personally, I think the solution may be to ban the costumes. Take away the "look at me" aspect that seems to pull in so many of the less desirables and the comics people might return - both buyers and sellers.

 

But there are two sides - the promoters loves those cosplay idjits because they buy tickets, and since the promoters are not making a penny off vintage comic sales, they will continue to try and attract the cos-nerds until the comic dealers refuse to buy tables.

[MedicAR]

I was just about to start a thread asking if we, comic fans, are victims of our own success.

 

Hardly, and these new mega-shows have virtually nothing to do with comic books, and everything to do with corporate America trying to squeeze brainless nerds for every penny they own through the 'ho'ing and pimping of licensed superhero movies, TV and other media.

 

Personally, I think the solution may be to ban the costumes. Take away the "look at me" aspect that seems to pull in so many of the less desirables and the comics people might return - both buyers and sellers.

 

But there are two sides - the promoters loves those cosplay idjits because they buy tickets, and since the promoters are not making a penny off vintage comic sales, they will continue to try and attract the cos-nerds until the comic dealers refuse to buy tables.

 

Sad but true on both counts.

[Moondog]

I just read somewhere that ReedPop, the promoter of the NYCC, is going to do a comics only event in NYC - no cosplayers, TV, Movie, etc. I wish I could find a link to that story...

 

It's interesting that a big company would try this as it definitely limits the crowd. They've got the promotional budget and promo machine to make this work so it's a real test of the concept.

 

And didn't San Diego try this a few years ago?