Digital Artist Proof vs. Original Art

[fmaz]

If someone really loves something so much that they can click a button and make another one of it? Then it's not original art.

 

That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it or put it up on your wall or whatever. But like others here have said, just value it like a signed print.

[Rmfn33]

If someone really loves something so much that they can click a button and make another one of it? Then it's not original art.

 

That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it or put it up on your wall or whatever. But like others here have said, just value it like a signed print.

 

Not that I Disagree, but just to play a devils advocate. Couldn't someone do the same thing to hand drawn OA as well? You can go to a site like Comicartfans.com and save an image and print a high quality copy of it no? or as high quality as the original poster decided to post it anyway.

[comix4fun]

If someone really loves something so much that they can click a button and make another one of it? Then it's not original art.

 

That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it or put it up on your wall or whatever. But like others here have said, just value it like a signed print.

 

Not that I Disagree, but just to play a devils advocate. Couldn't someone do the same thing to hand drawn OA as well? You can go to a site like Comicartfans.com and save an image and print a high quality copy of it no? or as high quality as the original poster decided to post it anyway.

 

 

Well if someone were to do that they've have something just as valuable as the paper it's printed on.

 

What the guy you're responding to was saying is that the artist can simply press "print" and make something 100% identical to what you just bought and do so at any time.

 

You can't do that to a piece on CAF. The owner will still have the original pencils and inks and you'd have a photocopy.

[Rmfn33]

If someone really loves something so much that they can click a button and make another one of it? Then it's not original art.

 

That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it or put it up on your wall or whatever. But like others here have said, just value it like a signed print.

 

Not that I Disagree, but just to play a devils advocate. Couldn't someone do the same thing to hand drawn OA as well? You can go to a site like Comicartfans.com and save an image and print a high quality copy of it no? or as high quality as the original poster decided to post it anyway.

 

 

Well if someone were to do that they've have something just as valuable as the paper it's printed on.

 

What the guy you're responding to was saying is that the artist can simply press "print" and make something 100% identical to what you just bought and do so at any time.

 

You can't do that to a piece on CAF. The owner will still have the original pencils and inks and you'd have a photocopy.

 

Of course, I understood what he was saying. I was just pointing out that anyone could press print on something as long as there is no watermark to take away from the art.

[AKA Rick]

If someone really loves something so much that they can click a button and make another one of it? Then it's not original art.

 

That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it or put it up on your wall or whatever. But like others here have said, just value it like a signed print.

 

Not that I Disagree, but just to play a devils advocate. Couldn't someone do the same thing to hand drawn OA as well? You can go to a site like Comicartfans.com and save an image and print a high quality copy of it no? or as high quality as the original poster decided to post it anyway.

 

YES and NO

 

Yes, anyone can copy an image and print it out to enjoy

 

No, it has no value at all 'tho.

 

That's in part why OA collectors spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a few ounces of 11 x 17 paper, it's part prestige, part investment, and part aesthetics.

 

It's the same as if you love Hundred Dollar Bills... you can have the real $100 and bring it to the store and spend it, it has value. It's recognized by all to having value.

 

OR

 

You can make a high res color copy, enjoy it, but once you try to use it, you'll not be able to redeem it and would also likely go to jail.

 

People don't take the IP of original art so seriously and sell of prints or worst sell off forgeries (copies) as something other than what it is, be it a "production" piece or the real deal, but they're committing fraud, so once it becomes economic the seriousness of the crime is taken up a notch.

[Bronty]

Its just not the same as hand rendered work.

 

In a fine art context where one is paying for the concept or what the piece is trying to say I could actually see much LESS resistance to the idea.

 

But in an illustration context? Most pieces were never trying to "say" anything. So if you don't have a hand rendered image WTF are you left with? A glorified poster as Chris said.

[Rmfn33]

Yup totally agree, I was just playing devils advocate like I said earlier haha. I do really love this page. If i can get the artist to go down at all I will probably buy it. I had a thought about it being an investment to sell later. I just love the page and I think its a great piece of history for the character.

[fmaz]

And I hope you understand that I, and I think most people here, weren't trying to say that you shouldn't like the page or think it's cool to own it... we're just saying it's not in the same ballpark as owning a one-of-a-kind piece of hand-drawn and inked original art. That's all.

 

The advice all the smart people here have always told me, and I believe, is buy what you love. So just get the best price you can and don't worry about anything else.

[Pete Marino]

And I hope you understand that I, and I think most people here, weren't trying to say that you shouldn't like the page or think it's cool to own it... we're just saying it's not in the same ballpark as owning a one-of-a-kind piece of hand-drawn and inked original art. That's all.

 

The advice all the smart people here have always told me, and I believe, is buy what you love. So just get the best price you can and don't worry about anything else.

 

BTW, a good test would be find out which pages are not available... has he sold anything at the prices he's asking for? I guess he could lie.... But still...

 

I have no idea the page, but still if the choice is between an original finch splash or a photocopy, it's a pretty easy choice.

[Rmfn33]

No of course, I was merely asking because of the times we were in. I too think that it does not hold the same value. But with digital becoming more and more prominent. Maybe these one off sheets are i don't know "the way of the future" for OA. I was not offended at all by anyone's comments.

 

Just wanted to make sure I knew what the market was like before buying anything haha

[ShaneTurgeon]

So i am curious to see what types of prices he may charge for this particular splash page. The price to my surprise is about the same as I paid for a David Finch Splash page on The Dark Knight Issue 2 for the New 52. I thought this was odd.

 

I would never, in a million years, spend anything more than $50 on a print - "one-of-a-kind" or otherwise. I certainly wouldn't drop the amount of money a Finch Batman splash would cost on one. Not to be rude, but anyone who would should have their head examined.

 

I'm really kind of surprised no one has commented further on the price he gave you...

 

As is it's been stated, there are no assurances he won't make another print down the road and all it is is a print. Or a poster. Heck, you might as well scan the comic page in and make your own print if you're just in love with the image and can't get an original.

 

As far as artist proofs, i know a few artists who under contractual obligations are only allowed to make a limited number of prints in a run. The use the "artist proof" to get around that limited run but making more and more proofs in various sizes and selling them making the limited print run and the artist proof nothing but a joke.

 

Bah, digital.

[Rmfn33]

Isn't this issue common in the fine art world as well? Signed and numbered, limited edition, prints of fine art are sold and are not cheap. My wife owns a few and has them framed around the house.

 

However, you never know if it will be reprinted at some point.

 

Closer to home, I used to own the BWS Conan prints that they swore would never be reprinted. Not long after the appeared in the comics.

 

Speaking of Fine Art Prints, Just wanted to share one of my Artist proof prints from CRASH, He is a graffiti artist from the NYC area.

 

Anyway This was an artist proof I loved! but like you said Fine Art prints have a different level to them to me for some reason.

 

[Bronty]

And I hope you understand that I, and I think most people here, weren't trying to say that you shouldn't like the page or think it's cool to own it... we're just saying it's not in the same ballpark as owning a one-of-a-kind piece of hand-drawn and inked original art. That's all.

 

+!

[Garf]

Buy what makes you happy. If you haven't been collecting art for a long time then you may not truly understand which kinds of pieces you are going to be happy with long term so take your time. Somehow I think that a proof / print won't be going anywhere for a while. If the artist in question is digital only then have you inquired about a sketch or commission or concept pieces?

 

I don't know about anyone else but if someone was reselling a printout of any kind then I would automatically assume that there is a good chance it is a knock off and simply ignore the listing altogether regardless of sig or CoA. In my mind once you have bought it then that's it, it's yours and the money is gone. Who knows if your tastes will change or not over time. You also won't have funds for the next nice piece that pops up maybe next week, maybe next month. There is always the next piece around the corner... Always.

 

Time is on your side with this one. You should not be in a rush to get a printout. Wait it out and see what the next few months will bring. I bet my hat that something will catch your eye if you are looking.

[Ironmandrd]

Echoing what everyone is saying. It's not the same and a buyer should view them as a limited edition print/poster/lithograph--no way should it sell the same or even close as if it were original art.

 

As an aside--Adi Granov went the other way--his early Iron Man cover art was mostly (or all) computer generated. For example, he would do some basic pencils (and I think sometimes inks) and then fill in on his computer all the detail, background, shading, ande then add colors, etc. (his few interiors were tight pencils).

 

He found that such art was not nearly as sought after or commanded nearly as high a price --so as his popularity grew he started doing covers and pin-ups with tight pencils and lots of detail and shading and then started doing color and now most of his cover or speciality pieces are colored/painted in mixed media (and the remaining are tight pencils). He also would print up high quality prints (say 10 or 20) on heavy stock textured paper and after those were sold (or given away), he would not make any more. I never bought his prints but I think they were like $20-$40 signed, depending on size and the piece.

[blueorangeny31]

Hi Rmfn33

 

Funny I wanted to ask opinion's on the same matter. I believe we might be talking about the same artist for DC because he just told me the same, artist proof on that high end paper. After looking at his prices I am definitely skeptical.

[blueorangeny31]

It's funny I think we're talking about the same artist because I just asked an artist on a recent DC title and he gave me that reply. The price, not good, from reading everyone's opinion I'm kind of bum because I was really loving a page.

[AKA Rick]

Keep in mind Original Art exists mainly because it's part of a production process, so in a publisher's work for hire of an artist, it's what they get paid to do.

 

So, some artists are just doing their job the best way they can, be it pencil on paper or digital.

 

The residual benefits of rendering art the traditional manner, pencil on paper garners aftermarket sales with marketplace prices that far exceeds the publisher's for hire rate for covers and pages, so it's a substantial bump in an artists income.

 

It's for that reason, 'tho it may be easier and faster to render digitally that some artists still maintain work with traditional pencil and paper.

 

Those artists who move towards digital need to realize their art sales, if they have any, will suffer as a result. Granted, some artists of lesser known name and popularity won't care much and rely on their ability to hit publication deadlines to continue getting work that pays the bills. Those other artists who are able to sell original art covers for $5,000+ and pages for $300+ will still continue to render in pencil on paper, since they certainly couldn't command even 10% of those prices if they went digital and sold these so called one of a kind digital artists proof reproduction prints.

 

One option you should consider is asking the artist if they are still comfortable using pencil and ink and requesting an original recreation commission of the piece you like, so although it's not the published piece it's a lot closer to original art than a print of a digital file.

[jick]

Let me contribute my two cents since I digitally color scans on comic art I own occasionally just for recreational purposes and uploading to my deviantart page.

 

I would not pay a premium if it were just a 1 of 1 artist print. That artist should give me the print, plus the original TIFF file he sent to the publishers, plus the unflattened PSD (or whatever layered format it is) file where he digitally inked or colored it. All should be in his original working size (probably 600 dpi). That would also be the original.

 

It means I get to see his working process: how many layers he used, the gradients and filters he used, and all of this I can edit if I like.

 

It's like buying the original master tape in music, or even owning original comic art drawn by hand -- because in theory I could erase the pencil marks and whiteout the ink marks if I like.

 

So maybe if ever I get those files, plus a signed 1 of 1 print, I might consider an inflated price. And if the artist turns his back and sells more prints, well I have access to the original files in soft copy and can also do my own prints if I were scheming, reckless, and vindictive.