Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[batman_fan]

In other words, we have all been played. The books and the collectors have been both been manipulated. Sad.

Forbes on James Halperin .

 

Of course once the coin-factor influence is learned, that particular puzzle piece falls into place, it makes perfect sense. But at first blush, as a noob reading the Forbes article, you think: 'why in the world would they want a guy like that anywhere near the comics hobby, let alone be invited to invest in and partner with its professional grading company??'

 

Everyone reading this thread should read the article on Halperin. You will see how CGC is the same business model as the coin industry, same bag of tricks. Even the CGC registry is a coin trick to create competition among collectors and ultimately drive up prices. The stuff about intentional soft grading to boost the the crack out game is really annoying. We are being played.

 

The apologists don't care. As long as the money train keeps chugging along....no one cares who the engineer is.

 

Dude, it's not a train, its a goose

[slym2none]

Pooping out Golden Eggs?

 

 

 

-slym

[batman_fan]

Pooping out Golden Eggs?

 

 

 

-slym

 

Definitely pooping something

[drbanner]

Some may find this commentary I wrote on the topic back in 2006 informative:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Home/4/1/73/1023?articleID=52863

 

Thanks Mark, good stuff! (thumbs u

 

Two questions re: CCS:

 

1) Does CCS have "free" access to grader's notes?

 

2) If a customer submits a book to CCS for restoration removal and it "comes back" purple, does the book go directly back to the customer or does CCS get another shot (or more) to remove the resto before it goes back to the customer?

[originalisbest]

Silly posters. Of course original is best. Not one person on the thread has argued the shrunken/twists are an improvement, but rather seem to be deciding just how bad they are. If some, even a few could be improved back to a "normal" appearance with additional pressing, as joey and Matt intimated, that would be interesting to see.

 

Oh, and Im positive Jim halperin is just quivering in his boots at the thought of indignant boardies looking to "shine a light" on him. . Better directed at geppi, most likely. But hey, if getting oneself into a twist over such things is how some enjoy spending valuable time, nobody can stop their noble pursuits.

[Mark Zaid]

Some may find this commentary I wrote on the topic back in 2006 informative:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Home/4/1/73/1023?articleID=52863

 

Thanks Mark, good stuff! (thumbs u

 

Two questions re: CCS:

 

1) Does CCS have "free" access to grader's notes?

 

2) If a customer submits a book to CCS for restoration removal and it "comes back" purple, does the book go directly back to the customer or does CCS get another shot (or more) to remove the resto before it goes back to the customer?

 

1) While I do not know if CCS would have access to or a need for CGC grader's notes, I would not think if it does that there would be a "cost" to it given it is owned by the same entity. Can you clarify as to what you are seeking?

 

2) I will need to check with CCS on this question to determine what is the typical contractual arrangement and guaranties, if any.

 

Assuming for purposes of the question that the answer is the book could undergo further restoration removal efforts by CCS for a subsequent submission to CGC, do you envision an issue with such a scenario?

[mysterio]

Mark, thanks for addressing our questions. I have some too.

 

CGC has been grading books for a while, of course well over two million by now. During that time I would guess they've had an opportunity to see the range of manufacturing defects commonly, and uncommonly, available. So when a group of books showed up with an unprecedented level of cover shrinkage and a distinctive pattern of overhang, why was the response to apparently treat this new, previously unseen in 2 million books (a vast number of which are SA Marvels), phenomenon as a manufacturing defect?

 

If graders are grading the book in front of them, why did this previously unseen and unsightly "manufacturing" defect not only get a pass, but apparently give the books a better appearance resulting in a higher grade?

[drbanner]

Some may find this commentary I wrote on the topic back in 2006 informative:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Home/4/1/73/1023?articleID=52863

 

Thanks Mark, good stuff! (thumbs u

 

Two questions re: CCS:

 

1) Does CCS have "free" access to grader's notes?

 

2) If a customer submits a book to CCS for restoration removal and it "comes back" purple, does the book go directly back to the customer or does CCS get another shot (or more) to remove the resto before it goes back to the customer?

 

1) While I do not know if CCS would have access to or a need for CGC grader's notes, I would not think if it does that there would be a "cost" to it given it is owned by the same entity. Can you clarify as to what you are seeking?

 

2) I will need to check with CCS on this question to determine what is the typical contractual arrangement and guaranties, if any.

 

Assuming for purposes of the question that the answer is the book could undergo further restoration removal efforts by CCS for a subsequent submission to CGC, do you envision an issue with such a scenario?

Both speak to the integration of the process and the conflict of interest that exists between a single company that performs the pressing, dry-cleaning, restoration removal, and who knows what else and then grades the quality of their work and decides blue or purple. Obviously if a restoration removal candidate gets "kicked back" and shows back up a few days later, the graders (and esp Friesen) know where the book came from.

[BEAUMONTS]

I think that ultimately that it will have to be the market dictating the unacceptability of these fugly comics. And this will only happen with more collectors being aware of

these essentially now defective "manipulated" comics and there probable depreciation in both monetary and collect ability standpoint.

 

So, tell your fellow comic friends and educate them on this subject, I think that CGC with there "light Press" fix really show's that this is all about the money and being that they are a company that's understandable. That being said you would hope there is some "true believer's" at the helm who actually have a love for comics and would not stand idly by while these rare specimens are manipulated into permanent fugliness, but that doesn't seem to be the case. This is not a yay or nay to pressing it's a strong "please stop" to this "overkill" pressing system.

 

I think CGC should have handled this straight on and this will ultimately effect there credibility, and being that it's a "grading" company, I would think credibility is paramount to sustainability and longevity. It is actually really a sad situation.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think that ultimately that it will have to be the market dictating the unacceptability of these fugly comics. And this will only happen with more collectors being aware of

these essentially now defective "manipulated" comics and there probable depreciation in both monetary and collect ability standpoint.

 

So, tell your fellow comic friends and educate them on this subject, I think that CGC with there "light Press" fix really show's that this is all about the money and being that they are a company that's understandable. That being said you would hope there is some "true believer's" at the helm who actually have a love for comics and would not stand idly by while these rare specimens are manipulated into permanent fugliness, but that doesn't seem to be the case. This is not a yay or nay to pressing it's a strong "please stop" to this "overkill" pressing system.

 

I think CGC should have handled this straight on and this will ultimately effect there credibility, and being that it's a "grading" company, I would think credibility is paramount to sustainability and longevity. It is actually really a sad situation.

 

 

Well said.

 

 

[Straw-Man]

I think that ultimately that it will have to be the market dictating the unacceptability of these fugly comics. And this will only happen with more collectors being aware of

these essentially now defective "manipulated" comics and there probable depreciation in both monetary and collect ability standpoint.

 

So, tell your fellow comic friends and educate them on this subject, I think that CGC with there "light Press" fix really show's that this is all about the money and being that they are a company that's understandable. That being said you would hope there is some "true believer's" at the helm who actually have a love for comics and would not stand idly by while these rare specimens are manipulated into permanent fugliness, but that doesn't seem to be the case. This is not a yay or nay to pressing it's a strong "please stop" to this "overkill" pressing system.

 

I think CGC should have handled this straight on and this will ultimately effect there credibility, and being that it's a "grading" company, I would think credibility is paramount to sustainability and longevity. It is actually really a sad situation.

 

 

but this should happen without the need to "educate" anyone. i don't tend to buy books i think are "fugly," for many reasons/defects. i assume that potential buyers out there NOT "educated" by the guys most butthurt over this will also not bid on the books if they think thery're "fugly." as a commodity, they are either ugly or not; what made them have the peek-thru shouldn't factor in that bottom-line conclusion.

 

p.s. i think the schave books are kinda ugly, and wouldn't buy one. cuz of how they look---not cuz of what made them look that way.

[drbanner]

I think that CGC with there "light Press" fix really show's that this is all about the money...

I'd love to see these books returned to their fully-hydrated state, although no doubt when/if these books pop up again they will be identified...especially the Hulk 1.

[Mark Zaid]

Some may find this commentary I wrote on the topic back in 2006 informative:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Home/4/1/73/1023?articleID=52863

 

Thanks Mark, good stuff! (thumbs u

 

Two questions re: CCS:

 

1) Does CCS have "free" access to grader's notes?

 

2) If a customer submits a book to CCS for restoration removal and it "comes back" purple, does the book go directly back to the customer or does CCS get another shot (or more) to remove the resto before it goes back to the customer?

 

1) While I do not know if CCS would have access to or a need for CGC grader's notes, I would not think if it does that there would be a "cost" to it given it is owned by the same entity. Can you clarify as to what you are seeking?

 

2) I will need to check with CCS on this question to determine what is the typical contractual arrangement and guaranties, if any.

 

Assuming for purposes of the question that the answer is the book could undergo further restoration removal efforts by CCS for a subsequent submission to CGC, do you envision an issue with such a scenario?

Both speak to the integration of the process and the conflict of interest that exists between a single company that performs the pressing, dry-cleaning, restoration removal, and who knows what else and then grades the quality of their work and decides blue or purple. Obviously if a restoration removal candidate gets "kicked back" and shows back up a few days later, the graders (and esp Friesen) know where the book came from.

 

Doc, I don't necessarily see the conflict and as I want to try and address every legitimate issue that is raised can you elaborate on your concern.

 

Let's say the book is submitted to CCS for restoration removal, whatever that might be. The submitter requests that the book then be sent to CGC for grading and it is sent back to the submitter as a restored book. Obviously the submitter would be unsatisfied which is why CCS would attempt again to safely remove whatever restoration remains - at no additional charge. The book would then go back to CGC for regrading - at no additional charge.

 

I suppose under certain circumstances that would be influenced by the amount of time involved in the process as well as the specific book in question it is possible that CGC might know that the book came from CCS.

 

But what would that mean in terms of a potential conflict in your eyes (or anyone else who wishes to weigh in)?

[mysterio]

Some may find this commentary I wrote on the topic back in 2006 informative:

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Home/4/1/73/1023?articleID=52863

 

Thanks Mark, good stuff! (thumbs u

 

Two questions re: CCS:

 

1) Does CCS have "free" access to grader's notes?

 

2) If a customer submits a book to CCS for restoration removal and it "comes back" purple, does the book go directly back to the customer or does CCS get another shot (or more) to remove the resto before it goes back to the customer?

 

1) While I do not know if CCS would have access to or a need for CGC grader's notes, I would not think if it does that there would be a "cost" to it given it is owned by the same entity. Can you clarify as to what you are seeking?

 

2) I will need to check with CCS on this question to determine what is the typical contractual arrangement and guaranties, if any.

 

Assuming for purposes of the question that the answer is the book could undergo further restoration removal efforts by CCS for a subsequent submission to CGC, do you envision an issue with such a scenario?

Both speak to the integration of the process and the conflict of interest that exists between a single company that performs the pressing, dry-cleaning, restoration removal, and who knows what else and then grades the quality of their work and decides blue or purple. Obviously if a restoration removal candidate gets "kicked back" and shows back up a few days later, the graders (and esp Friesen) know where the book came from.

 

Doc, I don't necessarily see the conflict and as I want to try and address every legitimate issue that is raised can you elaborate on your concern.

 

Let's say the book is submitted to CCS for restoration removal, whatever that might be. The submitter requests that the book then be sent to CGC for grading and it is sent back to the submitter as a restored book. Obviously the submitter would be unsatisfied which is why CCS would attempt again to safely remove whatever restoration remains - at no additional charge. The book would then go back to CGC for regrading - at no additional charge.

 

I suppose under certain circumstances that would be influenced by the amount of time involved in the process as well as the specific book in question it is possible that CGC might know that the book came from CCS.

 

But what would that mean in terms of a potential conflict in your eyes (or anyone else who wishes to weigh in)?

 

It would seem to be, at the very least, special treatment for CGC to regrade a book for free that CCS failed to remove all resto from. I get why CCS would be on the hook there, but please explain why CGC would be. CGC is paid to render a decision on grade, which they would have done. Can I get a regrade if I think they miss something, or only if it goes through CCS?

[Comicopolis]

Fully hydrated comics - so you can read them underwater.

[Bomber-Bob]

Silly posters.

Oh, and Im positive Jim halperin is just quivering in his boots at the thought of indignant boardies looking to "shine a light" on him. . Better directed at geppi, most likely. But hey, if getting oneself into a twist over such things is how some enjoy spending valuable time, nobody can stop their noble pursuits.

 

First off, I think the article on Halperin is interesting because of the analogy to the coin market. Nothing I read bothered me about Halperin himself. He is an aggressive businessman, no biggie.

Second, you call us silly posters. I don't know you but I have not enjoyed your posts. You contribute nothing. Most of your posts are ridiculing the posters, the thread. If you think we are silly then go off to another thread. Leave us silly posters alone.

[originalisbest]

I think "silly posters" is pretty mild compared to what I've been called, and of course it doesn't include all -- just whomever the label happens to fit. But whatever. Silly is as silly does, and without a doubt many (not all) of the posts within this thread are sublimely silly. Or is actually considering suicide (to pick perhaps the finest example of silliness) over this issue to be taken... seriously?

 

Happy to leave you to "Stu" in your own juices. By all means, carry on.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I think that CGC with there "light Press" fix really show's that this is all about the money...

I'd love to see these books returned to their fully-hydrated state, although no doubt when/if these books pop up again they will be identified...especially the Hulk 1.

 

They are already at their "fully hydrated" state. That is the problem. They likely reach equilibrium with ambient humidity within 24 hours of pressing. Once they reach equilibrium, that is it, over, done, they aren't going to shrink/expand anymore until someone wets them down again. Just like every other comic produced has not shrunk or expanded since it reached equilibrium humidity.

 

[Icculus308win]

Forgive me for not reading through the 230 some pages now -

 

But has Cole Schave been quoted on what he thinks of his books now?

Were they all manipulated when he owned them or after consigning? (Again forgive me if this is common knowledge now)

 

I just thought since the gent obviously had an eye for nice copies, what he thinks of the fugliness about them now, if this was done post his ownership.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

Forgive me for not reading through the 230 some pages now -

 

But has Cole Schave been quoted on what he thinks of his books now?

Were they all manipulated when he owned them or after consigning? (Again forgive me if this is common knowledge now)

 

I just thought since the gent obviously had an eye for nice copies, what he thinks of the fugliness about them now, if this was done post his ownership.

 

Cole Shave is like Steve Bartman (Cubs reference as I see you are from there), he hasn't been seen since. Doug Schmell bought a large chunk of his collection and resubbed them to CCS/CGC. The feeling is he would not be happy with these books. To take it even a step further I doubt that the collocter Doug Schmell of years past would not have wanted these books for his collection.