Answer from CGC.........

[Tango 'n Cash]

My point was "WHO WILL FUND THE RESEARCH TO INVENT THE MAGIC PRESSING DETECTION MACHINE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRESUME WILL ONE DAY EXIST AND RENDER ALL PRESSED BOOKS VALUELESS?"

 

They won't need to if the "pressed" Census numbers spike up like many think they will.

[esquirecomics]

I don't mean to sound rude or disconcerning-but to be honest, I like most high end high grade collectors-don't care! I can't speak for all my fellow high end collectors-but I and most others barely even knew about these boards and most of us, me being the exception, rarely have time to look at them let alone post.

 

I will say-it doesn't bother me at all-I wish him well in his new venture...

 

I don't see if negatively effecting the market that much-I have heard such and such will cause a "crash", etc. etc. for years now-nothing has happened...

 

yes-some people are still looking for signs of the end of the world too-quoting the bible everywhere they go...good luck to them and God Bless them....

 

Hmm, thats strange, I, like most high end-high grade collectors, care a great deal and don't like this one bit!!!

[esquirecomics]

But-can you tell them apart-thats the real question!

 

All evidence I have points to no!

 

I know some major prime-time dealers who disagree with this statement wholeheartedly. The only evidence is that books in a CGC holder are very, very difficult - except for the obvious pressed pedigrees - to conclusively determine pressing.

 

A raw book is completely different. And it tain't that difficult to crack a slab open.

 

Of course, if we want a hobby that is full of osterichs, that is a different story.

[FFB]

My point was "WHO WILL FUND THE RESEARCH TO INVENT THE MAGIC PRESSING DETECTION MACHINE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRESUME WILL ONE DAY EXIST AND RENDER ALL PRESSED BOOKS VALUELESS?"

 

They won't need to if the "pressed" Census numbers spike up like many think they will.

 

Pressing has been going on for years. Where are all the spikes?

[THE_BEYONDER]

My point was "WHO WILL FUND THE RESEARCH TO INVENT THE MAGIC PRESSING DETECTION MACHINE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRESUME WILL ONE DAY EXIST AND RENDER ALL PRESSED BOOKS VALUELESS?"

 

They won't need to if the "pressed" Census numbers spike up like many think they will.

 

Pressing has been going on for years. Where are all the spikes?

 

Maybe the current numbers are those "spikes"....

[comicworm]

for once I will keep my mouth, err my keyboard quite and let you guys discuss this all you want....

 

sorry if my posts offended any one-just trying to intervene with my thoughts and opinions-I'll now leave it all up to you guys....

 

enjoy....

[drdonaldblake]

IS THIS THE LONGEST EVER THREAD ON THESE BOARDS??!!

[Tango 'n Cash]

My point was "WHO WILL FUND THE RESEARCH TO INVENT THE MAGIC PRESSING DETECTION MACHINE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRESUME WILL ONE DAY EXIST AND RENDER ALL PRESSED BOOKS VALUELESS?"

 

They won't need to if the "pressed" Census numbers spike up like many think they will.

 

Pressing has been going on for years. Where are all the spikes?

 

You already know the answer to that. Pre-CGC, no one was pressing a NM 9.4 copy to 9.6 or 9.8 status, simply because there was no premium that went along with it. With CGC, that .4 difference on a label could potentially be worth hundreds of thousands.

 

But as I said, you already knew that.

[october]

IS THIS THE LONGEST EVER THREAD ON THESE BOARDS??!!

 

1. Infinite Bronze Horror

 

2. Babe Test

 

 

....I think.

[esquirecomics]

Most of you are missing the true potential conflict about the new Friessen endeavor under the Collectibles Group umbrella.

 

CGC claims it cannot detect pressing with any significant accuracy, and it does not wish to engage in the guessing game. I, for one, agree that CGC should not "guess".

 

CGC generally claims, as I understand it, that its graders do not know the owner of any particular book. That is not true in many instances.

 

Again, I raise the notion that CGC undoubtedly knows when certain books have been either pressed or resubmitted for nothing other than a higher grade or had some modification most likely solely to enhance its value. Does anyone really truly believe that CGC did not know that the unrestored More Fun #52 CGC 5.5 (Rockford, Cage Collection) copy I own was not originally the CGC 6.5 restored copy (and I still ask why both copies are listed in the census, at least last I checked)? Yet when the restoration was removed the Rockford and Cage designations were deliberately left off. Why? I cannot fathom any other reasonable answer other than to hide the book's true origin. BTW, I have had both designations placed back on the label.

 

Now, CGC and Friessen's enterprise will be legally distinct. Fine. But Friessen will be working right down the hall from CGC. They will interact.

 

Will CGC and its parent copy provide absolute assurances in writing as a matter of policy that Friessen will never walk down the hallway and hand over books he just pressed for grading by CGC?

 

Are we really to believe that some of the collectors/dealers who have relationships with both entities will not tell Friessen to not waste time and money to reship the book but simply give it to CGC?

 

And, regardless of the answers to the above, if Friessen does hand over books to CGC should not CGC then denote "Pressing" on the label? After all, the guesswork is gone.

 

At a minimum, and I don't particularly care how one feels about the notion of pressing itself, this is a MAJOR appearance of a conflict of interest for CGC's parent company.

 

CGC knows full well that the higher the grade it gives a book the more money that book will command. They know that pressing results in books receiving a higher grade. CGC's parent company has a PURE financial incentive to have Friessen press books so that the book's owners will then submit them to CGC for grading. The parent company makes money on both ends of the deal.

 

As one whose day job is ethically and legally controlled by all sorts of conflict of interest regulations, particularly ones of appearance, these circumstances smell like limberger cheese.

[FFB]

My point was "WHO WILL FUND THE RESEARCH TO INVENT THE MAGIC PRESSING DETECTION MACHINE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE PRESUME WILL ONE DAY EXIST AND RENDER ALL PRESSED BOOKS VALUELESS?"

 

They won't need to if the "pressed" Census numbers spike up like many think they will.

 

Pressing has been going on for years. Where are all the spikes?

 

You already know the answer to that. Pre-CGC, no one was pressing a NM 9.4 copy to 9.6 or 9.8 status, simply because there was no premium that went along with it. With CGC, that .4 difference on a label could potentially be worth hundreds of thousands.

 

But as I said, you already knew that.

 

Answer the question. Where are the spikes? I am not talking pre-CGC. I am talking about during the five years in which CGC has been in business now.

[esquirecomics]

If you want to check up on what I'm buying-I bought these recent comics from Comic Link:

 

Night Nurse #1 CGC 9.2 $250

 

Hero for Hire #1 CGC 9.4 #500

 

and from PedigreeComics:

 

The Cat #1 CGC 9.4 $175

 

Son of Satan #1 CGC 9.4

 

I like Bronze and Silver age-I don't buy moderns at all

 

but I do read modern Batmans

 

CW, these are great books. But multiply these prices by 10x - 100x and those are the prices I am paying for books. Not all high end - high grade collectors are in the same camp. If you find out your Cat #1 was pressed from a 9.0 that had sold for $75, you're out $100.

 

If I find out my Golden Age Green Lantern #1 CGC 9.0, which is currently listed on my site for $45,000 (though now on sale for $43,000 ), had been an 8.0, I could be out upwards to $20,000.

 

I care whether a book has been pressed. Again, I reiterate, I refer primarily to undisclosed pressing.

[esquirecomics]

Answer the question. Where are the spikes? I am not talking pre-CGC. I am talking about during the five years in which CGC has been in business now.

 

Scott, we all know that there are numerous pressed books reflected in the census. Is the # 10 or 100 or 1000? I don't know. I don't know the definition of "spikes". One is enough for me.

 

I can tell you that most dealers don't have the time or money to press all their books and wait months for CGC to send them back. Many of you would be surprised how cash poor a lot of the dealers are. That is one reason why many of the dealers do not have CGC books at shows. They need quicker turnover.

[tth2]

WHY IS EVERYONE JUST TALKING ABOUT PRESSING?! I could care less about pressing in this particular issue. CGC have already said they won't PLOD non-disassembled pressed books. Therefore, when it comes to pressing, Chris brings no advantage over Matt Nelson, or Susan Ciccone, or other practicioners out there who have been successfully pressing books all along and getting blue labels.

 

Am I just being overly paranoid by focusing more on the one area where Chris has a clear advantage over everyone else: knowing CGC's methods for detecting PLOD-type restoration and knowing how to circumvent those detection methods, or coming up with new undetectable methods? People can worry all they want about pressing, but the number of books that can be significantly improved by pressing is probably relatively small, particularly when you talk about ultra-HG books.

 

However, if you could do "real" restoration on books that would still get a blue label, THAT, ladies and gentlemen, would be the Mother Lode!

[FFB]

Answer the question. Where are the spikes? I am not talking pre-CGC. I am talking about during the five years in which CGC has been in business now.

 

Scott, we all know that there are numerous pressed books reflected in the census. Is the # 10 or 100 or 1000? I don't know. I don't know the definition of "spikes". One is enough for me.

 

One may be enough to annoy you, but it's hardly enough to start an industry-wide swelling of high-grade books and resultant crash. If pressing is going to make high grade books so common, where are all the high grade early FFs, 50s DCs, and other books that have been tough to find historically? High grade Spider-Man is easy to find, but that's nothing new. It's always been easy to find as long as you have a big checkbook.

 

I can tell you that most dealers don't have the time or money to press all their books and wait months for CGC to send them back. Many of you would be surprised how cash poor a lot of the dealers are. That is one reason why many of the dealers do not have CGC books at shows. They need quicker turnover.

 

Pressing ain't cheap either, you know. And I'm not sure how or if you intended this last paragraph to support the notion that pressing will swell the high end of the census, but I see it as supporting the opposite argument.

[esquirecomics]

Pressing ain't cheap either, you know. And I'm not sure how or if you intended this last paragraph to support the notion that pressing will swell the high end of the census, but I see it as supporting the opposite argument.

 

Scott, you're telling me for a high-touting lawyer at a major firm like yourself that Tracey Heft's $20 fee is not cheap? Even the newbies can afford it!

[esquirecomics]

WHY IS EVERYONE JUST TALKING ABOUT PRESSING?! I could care less about pressing in this particular issue. CGC have already said they won't PLOD non-disassembled pressed books. Therefore, when it comes to pressing, Chris brings no advantage over Matt Nelson, or Susan Ciccone, or other practicioners out there who have been successfully pressing books all along and getting blue labels.

 

Am I just being overly paranoid by focusing more on the one area where Chris has a clear advantage over everyone else: knowing CGC's methods for detecting PLOD-type restoration and knowing how to circumvent those detection methods, or coming up with new undetectable methods?

 

[jokersrevenge]

I have a number of 9.6 books, and my thought was this...would I risk sending the books in to try to get a 9.8 vs having it downgraded to a 9.4....probably not.

[Silver Surfer]

I have a number of 9.6 books, and my thought was this...would I risk sending the books in to try to get a 9.8 vs having it downgraded to a 9.4....probably not.

 

But generally speaking for your bigger $ value books it would be worth the risk. You just need one book to move a grade up and you could have a book that is worth thousands more.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have a number of 9.6 books, and my thought was this...would I risk sending the books in to try to get a 9.8 vs having it downgraded to a 9.4....probably not.

 

Usually not a good move for a straight re-sub....but in this case I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed your book won't drop in grade.

 

 

 

 

( SCS aside )