Answer from CGC.........

[kc120us]

The issue I was hoping people would focus on was the ethical boundaries of grading companies also being involved with providing restoration services.

 

How can a grading company that passes judgement on the restorational condition of a book be considered impartial when it is involved with providing restoration services?

 

I guess that would depend on whether you trust them or not. Let's take a hypothetical. Let's say the said company is run by people you implicitly trust (say your family for example). Your mother does the restoration and your father does the grading. You trust them. Can they be impartial?

 

It all comes down to trust.

 

Well, I don't trust a profit making business to be impartial and that's the problem, third party grading should be impartial..

 

So then you don't think your parents (or somene else you trust), if they were running a for-profit business based on impartiallity, could be impartial?

 

KC, with all due respect, this hypothetical is too simplistic to be meaningful in this discussion. It is not about "trust" in the nature you are describing with a loved one. Even then I'm sure we each know people, including in our family, who are "trustworthy" yet have done something that betrayed someone's trust.

 

Additionally, and probably more importantly, there are numerous examples of rules/guidelines and even criminal laws that specifically address the ethics of a situation. You do not have to be untrustworthy, in fact, to violate those rules/guidelines or, yes, even criminal ethics laws.

 

And to play devil's advocate, what is it about CGC that garners "trust"? And what level of "trust" are we speaking about? Trust to be honest? Trust to have a worthwhile product? Trust not to take advantage of their customers? Trust not to cheat on their taxes or hire illegal workers? People speak of corporations having their trust but the fact is that is a perception of image that typically exists. There are so many different levels and factors of trust that one cannot make a blanket statement with any legitimacy. I used to have a much higher degree of trust in my bank. I don't anymore. I have a lot of trust in some close friends yet I know they have cheated on their spouses. Should that impact how I trust them?

 

I have no reason not to trust those who work at CGC, or own CCG. I know several of the top CGC and CCG officials. I count them as friends. Do I trust them? I suppose it depends for what?

 

I think the only thing I can say is I trust CGC/CCG will do what is in ITS best interests as a for-profit corporation and I HOPE that those interests overlap with the community in general.

 

Fair enough.

[kc120us]

 

First, the issue is not necessarily pressing. I don't know why everyone keeps turning to that issue. The methods PCS would utilize are irrelevant to the purpose and the conflict that would exist.

 

 

Mark, pressing is the reason this arguement is even being had. It is pressing that sticks in a lot of people's craw. Because it is pressing (and dry cleaning) that garners the blue label grade improvement you describe in your post. All the other "improvements" would garner a purple label. And if a blue labeled mid-grade book was worked on and subsequently given a high-grade purple label no one would care. So, yes, it all comes down to pressing unfortunately. Unless, you are suggesting that CGC would ignore the restoration (ie CT, tear seal, etc) performed by a sister company and garner every book with a blue label.

[conditionfreak]

My personal stance is that I do appreciate those who sell (like Borock) who unashamedly state that this book or that book they are selling, was or may have been pressed.

 

CF;

 

Which Borock are you talking about!

 

The only Borock that I know of has clearly stated on many occasions that he does not bother to keep track of which book has been pressed and which book has not been pressed. This is because he couldn't care less if a book has been pressed or not and does not understand why anybody else would care. An impossible and absolutely meaningless task to keep track of thousands of books.

 

As a result, any potential purchaser thinking of buying a book from one of his listings was to simply assume that any or all of his books may have been pressed. Don't even think of wasting his time by asking him about a particular book because his statement was a blanket qualifier for all of his books.

 

I am sure you must have been thinking about a different Borock than the one that everybody else knows of here.

 

 

We said the same thing ("was or may have been pressed"). It just took me one sentence and you several (thumbs u

[gaz973]

 

First, the issue is not necessarily pressing. I don't know why everyone keeps turning to that issue. The methods PCS would utilize are irrelevant to the purpose and the conflict that would exist.

 

 

Mark, pressing is the reason this arguement is even being had. It is pressing that sticks in a lot of people's craw. Because it is pressing (and dry cleaning) that garners the blue label grade improvement you describe in your post. All the other "improvements" would garner a purple label. And if a blue labeled mid-grade book was worked on and subsequently given a high-grade purple label no one would care. So, yes, it all comes down to pressing unfortunately. Unless, you are suggesting that CGC would ignore the restoration (ie CT, tear seal, etc) performed by a sister company and garner every book with a blue label.

 

I agree with Casey that the bulk of the issue does come back to pressing which is why the thread turned into a pressing thread, way back when. Reading through the thread, it's easy to see where the notion of CGC having ulterior motives for not labeling pressing as restoration comes from.

[esquirecomics]

The ethical question that I have been trying to get people to discuss sadly without much success is ignorant of the method used to restore/enhance/whatever the book. It is the issue of the same company, at least at the parent level, performing both restorative/enhancement work while also grading the final product, and whether if that is pursued adequate chinese walls can be erected.

 

The latter question very much requires a factual determination. I, and several others, have posted some of the questions that would need to be answered but have never been. Hopefully Steve B. is open to further discussion on these points.

[gaz973]

The ethical question that I have been trying to get people to discuss sadly without much success is ignorant of the method used to restore/enhance/whatever the book. It is the issue of the same company, at least at the parent level, performing both restorative/enhancement work while also grading the final product, and whether if that is pursued adequate chinese walls can be erected.

 

The latter question very much requires a factual determination. I, and several others, have posted some of the questions that would need to be answered but have never been. Hopefully Steve B. is open to further discussion on these points.

 

Well I gave my opinion on that part of the question already. I would say that impartiality would unquestionably be compromised which would be wrong for an impartial third party grading company. I find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with that.