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Printer creases. Yuck.

Started by B-Smooth,

38 posts in this topic

RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

I'd like to see graded examples of 9.8's with printers creases. Haven't seen any yet.

 

I've got a few. Batman #427 and #426 are notorious examples. Cap #241 is, too.

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

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BlowUpTheMoon

BlowUpTheMoon

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

I'd like to see graded examples of 9.8's with printers creases. Haven't seen any yet.

 

I've got a few. Batman #427 and #426 are notorious examples. Cap #241 is, too.

 

Cap #241 is a great example.

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Conan_Aficionado

Conan_Aficionado

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

 

no no, I'm going to play nice.

 

You are entitled to your own collecting peculiarities. CGC has their opinion and you have yours.

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

I'd like to see graded examples of 9.8's with printers creases. Haven't seen any yet.

 

I've got a few. Batman #427 and #426 are notorious examples. Cap #241 is, too.

:wishluck: So there's a chance....

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

Posted
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I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

On a book like I posted that's pretty much ALL you'll get, though. I have yet to see a single copy without at least one crease.

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Iceman399

Iceman399

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

 

When it showed up on my wish list I just about dropped my jaw that it got a 9.6 till I found out it wasn't downgraded for a printer crease...that is one ugly 9.6

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

Posted
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Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

 

When it showed up on my wish list I just about dropped my jaw that it got a 9.6 till I found out it wasn't downgraded for a printer crease...that is one ugly 9.6

You got the grader notes?

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Conan_Aficionado

Conan_Aficionado

Posted
Posted

Here are DiceX's thoughts on printer's creases, I believe he mentioned he worked for a printing company, I don't remember if he said comic printers or not.

 

Next up...Print Creases

Here's what they look like.

 

508031-printcrease.jpg

 

Here's the answer...

The Printer crease is caused by the paper getting a wrinkle in it as it passes through the press units.

The units smash the wrinkle flat while printing the images onto the paper.

There is no ink on the inside of the wrinkle as this area was "hidden" during the print process.

If you have a cheap book with this type of wrinkle, you can try to unfold this wrinkle area and reveal the white paper area.

Do this only if you want to see what I'm trying to describe.

I wouldn't do this to a high grade or valuable book because you will end up with a white streak running through the cover.

 

Something I'd like to add to my response...

This is more common with thinner, cheaper paper.

It can also be caused after the ink is printed on the paper as it goes through the rollers at the end of the press.

If there is ink inside of the crease, it was caused after it was inked.

If there is no ink inside of the crease, it was caused before ink hit the page.

More often than not, it will be before inked.

 

This is very typical on specific books because the cover paper was cheap or very thin (Low basis weight).

Weird War #1 and Defenders #1 come to mind as books with a high percentage of this flaw.

Actually, Greggy pointed out to me that it is very hard to find a Weird War #1 without a Print Crease.

I have looked at many copies since he told me this to find that he is correct.

thumbsup2.gif

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Artboy99

Artboy99

Posted
Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

 

When it showed up on my wish list I just about dropped my jaw that it got a 9.6 till I found out it wasn't downgraded for a printer crease...that is one ugly 9.6

You got the grader notes?

 

I agree, I wouldn't pay 9.6 prices for any book with printer creases.

I think CGC should take manufacturing defects into consideration when grading.

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B-Smooth

B-Smooth

Posted
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Posted
I believe printing creases are allowed in grades 9.8 and lower. It's been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads. But my understanding is that many production defects are allowed in high grades, bindery tears being a perfect example and very commonly seen in 9.8.

 

CGC may allow for them in 9.6 or 9.8 books, but one be a fool to pay 9.6 prices for a book like that B&B. I wouldn't pay 8.0 FMV for a book with creases that large.

 

When it showed up on my wish list I just about dropped my jaw that it got a 9.6 till I found out it wasn't downgraded for a printer crease...that is one ugly 9.6

You got the grader notes?

 

I agree, I wouldn't pay 9.6 prices for any book with printer creases.

I think CGC should take manufacturing defects into consideration when grading.

I see that point of view. I must respectfully disagree. Only because it is what it is. 9.8's with some of these defects are probably the best you're going to get with these poorly made older books. Like ugly children, they were born that way. It's my guess that you'll never find a silver, or even bronze 9.8 book that looks as good as a modern 9.8. Not all 9.8's are created equal. Just my 2 pennies.

 

The above book I used as an example has no chance at a 9.8, so I'm not trying to swing the argument my way to justify a 9.8 with defects like that.

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Kevin76

Kevin76

Posted
Posted
Here are DiceX's thoughts on printer's creases, I believe he mentioned he worked for a printing company, I don't remember if he said comic printers or not.

 

Next up...Print Creases

Here's what they look like.

 

508031-printcrease.jpg

 

Here's the answer...

The Printer crease is caused by the paper web getting a wrinkle in it as it passes through the press units.

The units blanket cylinders smash the wrinkle flat while printing the images onto the paper.

There is no ink on the inside of the wrinkle as this area was "hidden" during the print process.

If you have a cheap book with this type of wrinkle, you can try to unfold this wrinkle area and reveal the white paper area.

Do this only if you want to see what I'm trying to describe.

I wouldn't do this to a high grade or valuable book because you will end up with a white streak running through the cover.

 

Something I'd like to add to my response...

This is more common with thinner, cheaper paper.

It can also be caused after the ink is printed on the paper as it goes through the rollers at the end of the press.

If there is ink inside of the crease, it was caused after it was inked.

If there is no ink inside of the crease, it was caused before ink hit the page.

More often than not, it will be before inked.

 

If the wrinkle breaks the color, the crease is happening before it hits the missing color of that unit.

 

This is very typical on specific books because the cover paper was cheap or very thin (Low basis weight). Or if you are having tension problems or a loose blanket

Weird War #1 and Defenders #1 come to mind as books with a high percentage of this flaw.

Actually, Greggy pointed out to me that it is very hard to find a Weird War #1 without a Print Crease.

I have looked at many copies since he told me this to find that he is correct.

thumbsup2.gif

 

Got a bit more specific for you all since I'm such a nice guy (thumbs u

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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
I think CGC should take manufacturing defects into consideration when grading.

 

+1

 

IMHO, grades should be set in stone. I know CGC has this "10 means it is the best example out there" theory of grading, and also that grading softens as the age of the book increases, but again, IMHO, all 9.8s should have the same set of defects, or range of defects as we go further down the grading scale. An X-Men #1 in CGC 9.0 should look very similar to a BA X-Men in CGC 9.0 should look similar to a Detective 33 in CGC 9.0 when it comes to the defects. If you look methodically at the GA book and, were it printed 40 years later, you'd say "this book would only grade a 7.5-8.0," then that's the grade it should get no matter when it was printed. If a crease would knock down a 9.8 to, say, an 8.0, then a printer's crease should be judged the same, all other things being equal. I just don't see why, if all copies of a book had a printer's crease, and the highest they would grade methodically is a 9.0, that 9.0 being the best grade any book is going to get is such a bad thing. I guess it is to make label-chasers happy - at least, that is my way of seeing it,and it has no real basis other than my thought processes.

 

But, CGC ain't my company, much to pleasure of some people, I am sure.

 

(:

 

 

 

-slym

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