Reading the Essential Thor vol. 1, and...

[slym2none]

the science is totally horrible. I guess it is growing up with modern comics, but some of the stuff in those early tales in the "Journey Into Mystery" title is so bad... I am having trouble reading it and staying focused from either disbelief or laughter.

 

I guess I am not for reading the early SA tales... but I will get through this volume at least.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[stroszek]

I'm not sure I'd be reading comic books for scientific accuracy. But I did always enjoy the science fact pages in Flash. I loved that Barry Allen was a scientist, but not a super-genius like Reed Richards and Bruce Banner. Just your typical smart, educated, hard-working guy.

 

And, oh yeah, those early Journeys are awesome.

 

 

[shadroch]

The Rainbow Bridge and Asgard just don't pop in black and white.

Like most Kirby/Lee books, JIM took a while to get its legs.The first year or two, the stories are silly.

[slym2none]

But some scientific accuracy is necessary, even with a suspension of disbelief!

 

The Lava Man points his hand at a group of Army men, staggered in their forces, and only thier guns turn to "volcanic ash." Um, flesh would char long before the guns would melt/burn/turn to ash, but no people are harmed. At least later, if someone heated up a gun someone was holding, their hand would get hot if not get burnt some.

 

And that is just the one I am reading now, I think I could do this for every issue so far.

 

 

 

 

-slym (is trying, really he is!)

[stroszek]

I respect that you're trying and hope you get into after a few more issues.

 

I also agree that it only really pops in four color glory. And on newsprint. But it is perhaps a wee bit pricy to buy the originals just for reading material.

 

I admit that JIM 83 isn't much of a story, but I think Stan and Jack did a fabulous job turning Norse gods into heroes. I like the early Journey stories better than the early FFs - why did they have to keep getting kidnapped?

 

But you could have blank word balloons and I'd be happy with the Kirby art.

 

 

[slym2none]

Heh - I am on issue 98 (the Essential vol. 1 goes from issue 83 to 112 of JIM) and I am not saying it is the worst thing I have ever read... by any means! I will finish this volume no matter what, and I am enjoying the Kirby and Sinnot art a lot. I don't mind the B&W art, IMHO it is less distracting than what some colour comics do with their art now. I know it was a different era, and I am really trying to keep that in mind!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

The time it was written in really gets me, and not in a bad way. To see Thor taking on "the Reds" and some of the planes with the hammer & sickle on them make me think back to when I was a kid, and puts into perspective what the Cold War was really about. Merlin sees JFK and thinks he is "too young" to be the president, and leaves stll searching for the President - priceless! Merlin in a robe & cap with moons & stars on it - rich!

 

If nothing else, it is great to see how far we have come since those early SA days!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[KirbyJack]

Please also remember that Larry Lieber scripted many of the early stories, not Brother Stan.

 

Yes, the science is atrocious. As you read, don't look for it to improve. As a thug holds a gun, Captain America slices it in two. The 1000 lb. Hulk launches one of his mile-long leaps from a pier, or a boat, or a moving plane. Transistors can do anything.

 

Stan is on record with his general disinterest in adhering to physics.

[Erndog]

You know, at the end of the day, most of the old SA stories are pretty hokey.... but they were awesome back then!

 

It's like all those kid shows I used to watch. Saved by the Bell, Step by Step, Boy Meets World, Full House, Fresh Prince (to a degree).... those were just the bomb growing up! Now if I watch 2 seconds of them I can't stop laughing and rolling my eyes how ridiculous they are (okay, Fresh Prince still ain't bad!).

 

You just gotta read em and take em for what they're worth.

[Unca Ben]

While reading super hero comics from any era I'm not looking for a science lesson.

 

From what I see of the modern books, writers have just gotten better at BS than their predecessors. My old physics and chemistry teachers would have a field day.

 

Invisible auras to counteract air friction at super-speeds? (Flash). Solar energy auras to provide invulnerability? (Superman). Ridiculously accelerated healing factors? (Wolverine - regenerating all his body tissue within minutes of being incinerated by a nuclear blast). And on and on and on.

 

I mean, c'mon now. The older writers basked in the silliness of their characters' attributes instead of attempting to explain them by indulging in absurd pseudoscience.

[slym2none]

I am not talking about the instant death the Radioactive Man would have undergone while absorbing massive amounts of radiation. I am talking about things like what I mentioned above, the Lava Man just waving his hand and only metal objects, the toughest objects on the panel, turning into "volcanic ash" without any humans being the least bit burnt. If Merlin had done that, sure - he used magic! But throwing massive amounts of heat at bags of flesh and water holding metal objects and the metal disintegrating while the people go "Gosh!" is extending the suspension of disbelef farther than I can reasonably accept. However, I am not letting it get completely in my way of enjoying the old stories... my eyes don't roll as hard now as when I first started reading.

 

I also like how dramatic Dr. Blake & Jane Foster are - I thought Spider-Man/PP had the angst of unrequited love wrapped up! Jeez!!!

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

But some scientific accuracy is necessary, even with a suspension of disbelief!

 

The Lava Man points his hand at a group of Army men, staggered in their forces, and only thier guns turn to "volcanic ash." Um, flesh would char long before the guns would melt/burn/turn to ash, but no people are harmed. At least later, if someone heated up a gun someone was holding, their hand would get hot if not get burnt some.

 

And that is just the one I am reading now, I think I could do this for every issue so far.

 

 

 

 

-slym (is trying, really he is!)

 

You're reading these stories as an adult living now, judging it against your modern, adult sensibilities. If you can't enjoy them for what they are and when they were done, you're probably better off not reading them at all

[ComicConnoisseur]

the science is totally horrible. I guess it is growing up with modern comics, but some of the stuff in those early tales in the "Journey Into Mystery" title is so bad... I am having trouble reading it and staying focused from either disbelief or laughter.

 

I guess I am not for reading the early SA tales... but I will get through this volume at least.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

Try reading some of the DC Showcases that focus on Silver Age material, and we will find out why Marvel became the king back then.

 

 

[Unca Ben]

I am not talking about the instant death the Radioactive Man would have undergone while absorbing massive amounts of radiation. I am talking about things like what I mentioned above, the Lava Man just waving his hand and only metal objects, the toughest objects on the panel, turning into "volcanic ash" without any humans being the least bit burnt. If Merlin had done that, sure - he used magic! But throwing massive amounts of heat at bags of flesh and water holding metal objects and the metal disintegrating while the people go "Gosh!" is extending the suspension of disbelef farther than I can reasonably accept. However, I am not letting it get completely in my way of enjoying the old stories... my eyes don't roll as hard now as when I first started reading.

 

I also like how dramatic Dr. Blake & Jane Foster are - I thought Spider-Man/PP had the angst of unrequited love wrapped up! Jeez!!!

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

 

Good points, but remember these stories were crafted during the height of the Comics Code and violent injuries like burning flesh were probably frowned upon.

Considering the constraints put on them, the creators did the best they could to make the stories exciting and the villains as dangerous as they could.

 

On Dr. Blake and Nurse Foster, that was pretty much standard fare for Marvel at the time; Peter Parker and Betty Brant, Reed and Sue (and Namor!), Matt Murdock and Karen Page, Scott Summers and Jean Grey, etc.

I just loved that stuff! It beat Superman playing tricks on Lois, while occasionally putting her over his knee for a good spanking!

 

 

[slym2none]

But some scientific accuracy is necessary, even with a suspension of disbelief!

 

The Lava Man points his hand at a group of Army men, staggered in their forces, and only thier guns turn to "volcanic ash." Um, flesh would char long before the guns would melt/burn/turn to ash, but no people are harmed. At least later, if someone heated up a gun someone was holding, their hand would get hot if not get burnt some.

 

And that is just the one I am reading now, I think I could do this for every issue so far.

 

 

You're reading these stories as an adult living now, judging it against your modern, adult sensibilities. If you can't enjoy them for what they are and when they were done, you're probably better off not reading them at all

 

I said I was enjoying the stories, it is just a few small points that make me roll my eyes here and there. Seriously, how hard would it have been for one person who holding a now-ashen guns to say "OW! My hand!" I bet some of the "kids" reading these in 1963 thought the same thing, but I cannot prove that.

 

Anyway, I am going to go and finish reading this tome and enjoy it for what it is, and snicker just a little at these idiosyncracies.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

the science is totally horrible. I guess it is growing up with modern comics, but some of the stuff in those early tales in the "Journey Into Mystery" title is so bad... I am having trouble reading it and staying focused from either disbelief or laughter.

 

I guess I am not for reading the early SA tales... but I will get through this volume at least.

 

:shrug:

Try reading some of the DC Showcases that focus on Silver Age material, and we will find out why Marvel became the king back then.

 

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

But some scientific accuracy is necessary, even with a suspension of disbelief!

 

The Lava Man points his hand at a group of Army men, staggered in their forces, and only thier guns turn to "volcanic ash." Um, flesh would char long before the guns would melt/burn/turn to ash, but no people are harmed. At least later, if someone heated up a gun someone was holding, their hand would get hot if not get burnt some.

 

And that is just the one I am reading now, I think I could do this for every issue so far.

 

 

You're reading these stories as an adult living now, judging it against your modern, adult sensibilities. If you can't enjoy them for what they are and when they were done, you're probably better off not reading them at all

 

I said I was enjoying the stories, it is just a few small points that make me roll my eyes here and there. Seriously, how hard would it have been for the people holding the now-ashen guns to say "OW! My hand!" I bet some of the "kids" reading these in 1963 thought the same thing, but I cannot prove that.

 

Anyway, I am going to go and finish reading this tome and enjoy it for what it is, and snicker just a little at these idiosyncracies.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

I'm sorry. I forgot that these stories were written with 40 year old men in mind and not little children. My bad

[slym2none]

I am not talking about the instant death the Radioactive Man would have undergone while absorbing massive amounts of radiation. I am talking about things like what I mentioned above, the Lava Man just waving his hand and only metal objects, the toughest objects on the panel, turning into "volcanic ash" without any humans being the least bit burnt. If Merlin had done that, sure - he used magic! But throwing massive amounts of heat at bags of flesh and water holding metal objects and the metal disintegrating while the people go "Gosh!" is extending the suspension of disbelef farther than I can reasonably accept. However, I am not letting it get completely in my way of enjoying the old stories... my eyes don't roll as hard now as when I first started reading.

 

I also like how dramatic Dr. Blake & Jane Foster are - I thought Spider-Man/PP had the angst of unrequited love wrapped up! Jeez!!!

 

::

 

Good points, but remember these stories were crafted during the height of the Comics Code and violent injuries like burning flesh were probably frowned upon.

Considering the constraints put on them, the creators did the best they could to make the stories exciting and the villains as dangerous as they could.

 

On Dr. Blake and Nurse Foster, that was pretty much standard fare for Marvel at the time; Peter Parker and Betty Brant, Reed and Sue (and Namor!), Matt Murdock and Karen Page, Scott Summers and Jean Grey, etc.

I just loved that stuff! It beat Superman playing tricks on Lois, while occasionally putting her over his knee for a good spanking!

 

 

Heh - I never meant for anyone's hands to explode in flame, just a simple "OW! My hand! That got hot!" would have sufficed.

 

So, Reed, Sue, Matt. Karen, Scott, and Jean all had those angst-y moments back then? That's great, at least there was consistency!

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym (this is how one learns about stuff!)

[chrisco37]

The early JIM's are better than the early Hulk's, if you can believe it.

[slym2none]

Believe it or not, this kind of makes me more interested to read these older stories. Not to see how "bad" they are, but more to see how our outlooks changed over time, both as writers and readers. I might have to tell my library to get more Essentials!

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym