The Black Panther and Luke Cage

[GianTripod]

After watching a PBS series on comic books (can't recall the name) , I was a little surprised how Marvel Comics was being celebrated for bringing the black superhero to the forefront.

 

The Black Panther being an African tribesman and Luke Cage being a gang member from Harlem, both seem to be based entirely on racial stereotypes... as if these are the only backgrounds that seem plausible for an African-American male.

 

While not as racially insensitive as the writings during the Golden Age, I can't see having such a narrow view being applauded. I know it was a different time, and baby steps are better than no steps at all, but I was just curious how other people felt about this.

 

All the being said, I'm still on the look out for a nice FF #52 at a good price

 

[bluechip]

After watching a PBS series on comic books (can't recall the name) , I was a little surprised how Marvel Comics was being celebrated for bringing the black superhero to the forefront.

 

The Black Panther being an African tribesman and Luke Cage being a gang member from Harlem, both seem to be based entirely on racial stereotypes... as if these are the only backgrounds that seem plausible for an African-American male.

 

While not as racially insensitive as the writings during the Golden Age, I can't see having such a narrow view being applauded. I know it was a different time, and baby steps are better than no steps at all, but I was just curious how other people felt about this.

 

All the being said, I'm still on the look out for a nice FF #52 at a good price

 

The stereotypes were things that audience members were responding to, not just the white audience but the black audience, as well.

 

There were other black characters introduced at the time which were not stereotypes -- a black cowboy (Lobo) and a black photographer/detective (Friday Foster), a black newspaper editor (Joe Robertson in ASM) black WW 2 soldiers (Jackie Johnson and Gabriel Jones) and a genius black kid who builds a super-suit (The Prowler) but none of them garnered enough fan interest to merit long-term interest in their own series. People gravitate toward stereotypes in action stories because the whole idea of a badass hero is something of a stereotype in itself, and audiences tend to like them when their back-story puts them in remote mysterious locales or in strife-torn neighborhoods.

 

 

 

 

[jools&jim]

 

The Black Panther being an African tribesman...

T'Challa was the king/head-of-state of Wakanda, and presided over a highly technologically advanced society which had developed its own brand of super-science. That's hardly a stereotype...

 

 

 

[Warren Oates]

Why is it a narrow viewpoint to have a superhero from Africa? I don't think the Black Panther was merely a "Tribesman".

 

Cage was from Harlem, I have not read that he was a gang member, he was convicted of a crime he did NOT commit. He did grow up with "street smarts". Many of his villains were somewhat stereotypical in the first 40 issues or so, but then again stuff like Shaft was very popular in the early 70s. Marvel I'm sure wanted to sell some books and went along with that image. Cage was always portrayed as honest, helpful, human, and full of heart.

 

I enjoyed both of these characters.

 

Are you concerned about Blade, Storm, or The Falcon?

[revat]

After watching a PBS series on comic books (can't recall the name) , I was a little surprised how Marvel Comics was being celebrated for bringing the black superhero to the forefront.

 

The Black Panther being an African tribesman and Luke Cage being a gang member from Harlem, both seem to be based entirely on racial stereotypes... as if these are the only backgrounds that seem plausible for an African-American male.

 

While not as racially insensitive as the writings during the Golden Age, I can't see having such a narrow view being applauded. I know it was a different time, and baby steps are better than no steps at all, but I was just curious how other people felt about this.

 

All the being said, I'm still on the look out for a nice FF #52 at a good price

 

I think at that time in that cultural period in America, those archetypes (and/or stereotypes) were the most likely to be MARKETABLE to the comic reading audience. They weren't trying to start a revolution or recreate Shakespeare, they were just trying sell some comics to some teens/young adults by tapping into what popular culture thought of as 'cool' at the time. But they did it before DC, by a long shot, and that's something I think.

[That Ron Dude]

Black Panther was better than Luke Cage but they were both pretty bad. Marvel's black characters were black more than they were human. Not one of them just happened to be black-- they had to be black in a way that made a social comment.

 

If I can take it another step, the appearance of black characters in comics was a little bit like the appearance of drugs in comics. They had to be there for a reason.

 

But to take it two steps back, there will always be an entry phase where we see that sort of thing. It was rare to see a movie that starred a black person except to create a social message about their interaction with white people, there were black people being used on TV to round out otherwise white casts and theatre wasn't casting black people much either. There wouldn't be a famous black artist until Basquiat in the '80s and some critics say that he was pushed into the forefront because he was viewed as a wild man (a black man living in a cardboard box in the park) but tameable (with an accountant father).

 

And now that I think of it, Bill Cosby was an exception to all this. I am sure there were others. I can't think of one in comics though.

 

About that same time Barks changed his black characters from ring-through-the-nose, bone-through-the-hair characters to white coloured characters with puffy, wiry hair and spears in their hands.

 

Personally, I hated the way Marvel wrote the black characters. I would have been about 12 when all that began. I understand black culture better than the people who were writing it, probably because I didn't have forty years of social division and prejudice to dig myself out from under like Stan the Man did.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Black Panther was better than Luke Cage but they were both pretty bad. Marvel's black characters were black more than they were human. Not one of them just happened to be black-- they had to be black in a way that made a social comment.

 

If I can take it another step, the appearance of black characters in comics was a little bit like the appearance of drugs in comics. They had to be there for a reason.

 

But to take it two steps back, there will always be an entry phase where we see that sort of thing. It was rare to see a movie that starred a black person except to create a social message about their interaction with white people, there were black people being used on TV to round out otherwise white casts and theatre wasn't casting black people much either. There wouldn't be a famous black artist until Basquiat in the '80s and some critics say that he was pushed into the forefront because he was viewed as a wild man (a black man living in a cardboard box in the park) but tameable (with an accountant father).

 

And now that I think of it, Bill Cosby was an exception to all this. I am sure there were others. I can't think of one in comics though.

 

About that same time Barks changed his black characters from ring-through-the-nose, bone-through-the-hair characters to white coloured characters with puffy, wiry hair and spears in their hands.

 

Personally, I hated the way Marvel wrote the black characters. I would have been about 12 when all that began. I understand black culture better than the people who were writing it, probably because I didn't have forty years of social division and prejudice to dig myself out from under like Stan the Man did.

 

While I agree on the black super hero character, I wonder about the black supporting character. I felt like some of what was done with Robbie Robertson was very even handed. He made him a well rounded and developed character. It might be different when you add in the role of his son though. He came across like a bitter black man, but his father was so much more.

 

I felt like the portrayal of black people in ASM was even stronger than the portrayal of drugs. The drug issues always get the attention, but their were some powerful moments in that run.

 

Is that not right?

[That Ron Dude]

Black Panther was better than Luke Cage but they were both pretty bad. Marvel's black characters were black more than they were human. Not one of them just happened to be black-- they had to be black in a way that made a social comment.

 

If I can take it another step, the appearance of black characters in comics was a little bit like the appearance of drugs in comics. They had to be there for a reason.

 

But to take it two steps back, there will always be an entry phase where we see that sort of thing. It was rare to see a movie that starred a black person except to create a social message about their interaction with white people, there were black people being used on TV to round out otherwise white casts and theatre wasn't casting black people much either. There wouldn't be a famous black artist until Basquiat in the '80s and some critics say that he was pushed into the forefront because he was viewed as a wild man (a black man living in a cardboard box in the park) but tameable (with an accountant father).

 

And now that I think of it, Bill Cosby was an exception to all this. I am sure there were others. I can't think of one in comics though.

 

About that same time Barks changed his black characters from ring-through-the-nose, bone-through-the-hair characters to white coloured characters with puffy, wiry hair and spears in their hands.

 

Personally, I hated the way Marvel wrote the black characters. I would have been about 12 when all that began. I understand black culture better than the people who were writing it, probably because I didn't have forty years of social division and prejudice to dig myself out from under like Stan the Man did.

 

While I agree on the black super hero character, I wonder about the black supporting character. I felt like some of what was done with Robbie Robertson was very even handed. He made him a well rounded and developed character. It might be different when you add in the role of his son though. He came across like a bitter black man, but his father was so much more.

 

I felt like the portrayal of black people in ASM was even stronger than the portrayal of drugs. The drug issues always get the attention, but their were some powerful moments in that run.

 

Is that not right?

 

Robbie Robertson was done pretty well. I didn't think of him. The Falcon's girlfriend might have been the worst of them.

 

[shadroch]

Sam Wilson was a social worker.

Bill Foster was a scientist

Luke Cage was an innocent man, framed for a crime he didn't commit.

Gabe Jones was a musician who got drafted.

T'challa was a world class scientist from a culture with technology far above ours.

 

What would you have wanted Marvel to do?

[chrisco37]

For real. It's not like it was Will Eisner Ebony White.

[shadroch]

Some of the black villains Cage fought were pretty bad, but then I look at Spider-man where he battles The Mind Worm, Hammerhead Junior and the Kangaroo.

[chrisco37]

Some of the black villains Cage fought were pretty bad, but then I look at Spider-man where he battles The Mind Worm, Hammerhead Junior and the Kangaroo.

 

Weren't those all real close together too? Writers must've been partying it up those few months.

[Warren Oates]

Some of the black villains Cage fought were pretty bad, but then I look at Spider-man where he battles The Mind Worm, Hammerhead Junior and the Kangaroo.

 

Yep. Not to mention Rocket Racer and Big Wheel, who happened to be not white.

 

The 70s brought a whole string dopey low level villains, and a few good ones I'm sure.

 

 

[shadroch]

Sandwiched in between The Spider-Mobile and the Doc Ock- Aunt May wedding.Then again, that year also gave us The Punisher, The Tarantula and Harry Jr becoming the Goblin.

[akaSteveRogers]

Im still trying to find out for historical purposes if (1) Gabe Jones was "phased in" as being black, (2) if it was a legitimate "Gray Hulk" oops by the colorist or (3) the colorist taking liberty and "correcting" what he thought was a mistake thinking "No way Gabe Jones is black."

 

Sgt. Fury and Howling Commandos #1

 

 

and then Sgt Fury #7...he's a not black but greyish.

 

 

by issue #56 (sorry I couldn't find any scans of issues in between 7-56 of Gabe at this time...)

 

 

 

[GianTripod]

 

Cage was from Harlem, I have not read that he was a gang member, he was convicted of a crime he did NOT commit

 

 

Luke Cage was in a gang called The Rivals and though he was not guilty of the crime that he was convicted of, he was a thief.

 

 

You gentlemen make a lot of good points and certainly know your comics.

[akaSteveRogers]

Luke Cage was in a gang called The Rivals and though he was not guilty of the crime that he was convicted of, he was a thief.

 

I think you painting Luke Cage with a broad brush here. I think what you are trying to say is that Marvel shouldn't be taking bows for introducing one of there first black characters ie. Luke Cage as a thief or gangbanger.

 

But I dont they have ever harped on him being this type of character but more of a kid with a tough upbringing in the inner city, joined a gang and did things that young guys in gangs do. Fight other gangs and petty theft. But you never got the impression that was Luke's nature.

Remember at one point, he realized he was hurting his family and wanted to better himself as an adult.

 

Then he gets imprison for a crime he didn't commit....and you know the rest.

[Warren Oates]

 

Cage was from Harlem, I have not read that he was a gang member, he was convicted of a crime he did NOT commit

 

 

Luke Cage was in a gang called The Rivals and though he was not guilty of the crime that he was convicted of, he was a thief.

 

 

You gentlemen make a lot of good points and certainly know your comics.

 

oh I see. I better dust off issue #1 and read it again. It seems Marvel made little mention of this throughout the series.

[shadroch]

Wiki says he was in a gang called The Rivals, while Marvels site says he was in The Bloods. I've read every issue of his first series and don't recall either.

[akaSteveRogers]

oh I see. I better dust off issue #1 and read it again. It seems Marvel made little mention of this throughout the series.

 

Like I said in my last post I think this was intentional. That's not the story, I believe, they wanted to focus on.