Action 1 price makes art look cheap?

[suspense39]

True Terry, Vampira is another series destroyed although I believe it was completely destroyed except for maybe a two minute segment. No one was thinking collectible.

[alxjhnsn]

Jack Cole's Plastic Man, one of the best books ever - story and art, was cut up by the owner of Quality Comics to prevent "others" from reprinting the book.

 

Among other odd parts of that story is that if he thought others would want to reprint, why didn't he want to keep the pages under lock and key so he could reprint?

[tth2]

There's no question that the early interiors exist. But I read different things about the covers from different people. They've never hit the market , that much we know

If there's one thing that's become apparent over the last few years, it's that there's a whole lot more early OA in existence than the powers that be would have you believe.

[tth2]

There is just no rational reason why Marvel for instance would destroy the Avengers #4 cover. The splash to that issue, for instance specifically says this issue is destined to become a collectors item.

[tth2]

Here's one of them. I think there might have been more?

 

http://twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/19stolen.html

 

Outstanding read! I feel like I read this a while ago. I actually tend to think there is a pile in someone's basement and though it might not be 4 feet tall some of these covers exist. Especially if you believe the printer who said the covers were returned. There is just no rational reason why Marvel for instance would destroy the Avengers #4 cover. The splash to that issue, for instance specifically says this issue is destined to become a collectors item. Its not like they had no insight into what they were creating.

 

Marvel probably said that Millie the Model's (then) latest issue was destined to become a collectors' item.

 

Mostly hype.

 

I know, hyperbole. Maybe I can't understand why someone would destroy them because I'm a collector but it still seems to be such a bizarre decision.

 

No one, back then, could have foretold a collectors' market. They were running a business, selling comic-books. Aside from the interior pages, which had reprint possibilities, there probably seemed little point wasting valuable storage space with covers that couldn't be re-used.

Yes, this could be an explanation why Marvel went to the expense of commissioning new covers for its many reprint series in the 1970s--the originals simply didn't exist anymore.

 

But I still think that a whole lot more exist than is let on.

[pemart1966]

Here's one of them. I think there might have been more?

 

http://twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/19stolen.html

 

Outstanding read! I feel like I read this a while ago. I actually tend to think there is a pile in someone's basement and though it might not be 4 feet tall some of these covers exist. Especially if you believe the printer who said the covers were returned. There is just no rational reason why Marvel for instance would destroy the Avengers #4 cover. The splash to that issue, for instance specifically says this issue is destined to become a collectors item. Its not like they had no insight into what they were creating.

 

Marvel probably said that Millie the Model's (then) latest issue was destined to become a collectors' item.

 

Mostly hype.

 

I know, hyperbole. Maybe I can't understand why someone would destroy them because I'm a collector but it still seems to be such a bizarre decision.

 

No one, back then, could have foretold a collectors' market. They were running a business, selling comic-books. Aside from the interior pages, which had reprint possibilities, there probably seemed little point wasting valuable storage space with covers that couldn't be re-used.

 

Same sort of thing happened over here in the UK with television programmes. No-one (up until the advent of commercial video releases) saw the point of storing material that couldn't be re-transmitted. The science-fiction series, Dr Who, for example, had a lot of the early adventures routinely destroyed. Now fans clamour for all that missing stuff . . .

 

 

 

 

Not too sure why the covers could not have been re-used. All they had to do was take out the month and the price and away they could go…

 

Rather than the Dr. Who episodes being "destroyed" I thought that the issue was that they taped over them - which is in effect "destroying them I guess - partially in an effort to save money.

[pemart1966]

Here's one of them. I think there might have been more?

 

http://twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/19stolen.html

 

A couple of points on this article:

 

1. Spider-man 20 has been together for as long as I can remember so I don't know how it could have been part of a pile of art used to pay kids in lieu of…

 

2. I thought that I read somewhere that the covers were shipped separately from the book (sent to a different printer?) (different printing process?) or am I just mis-remembering?

 

 

[Bronty]

Well Glen says in he article that he spoke to the guy who was responsible for that and that they were shipped in the same envelope. I dunno.

[Crowzilla]

But I still think that a whole lot more exist than is let on.

 

Have to agree with this one.

Greg Theakston still says that Jim Shooter showed him the cover to FF#12 in his office one day.

So why can't more stuff of that caliber be hidden out there?

[Bronty]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

[Terry Doyle]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

 

It's quite possible that there are still some early covers out there waiting to surface, but I still do believe that the bulk of the early stuff no longer exists (and I certainly would like to be proved wrong on that opinion). With prices spiralling ever upwards, the lure of mega-dollars ought to loosen a few more (and, here, we're talking retirement money)?

[Bronty]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

 

It's quite possible that there are still some early covers out there waiting to surface, but I still do believe that the bulk of the early stuff no longer exists (and I certainly would like to be proved wrong on that opinion). With prices spiralling ever upwards, the lure of mega-dollars ought to loosen a few more (and, here, we're talking retirement money)?

 

Well, not if it really is that mythical four foot stack and if the owner is someone like Thibodeaux or whomever. I.e. if you're slowly divesting, you sell the good stuff last and let the ever increasing prices on the lesser material spiral the good stuff up and up and up.

 

If this is the scenario, we'll see the remaining key interiors sell before any of the early covers go.

 

[Terry Doyle]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

 

It's quite possible that there are still some early covers out there waiting to surface, but I still do believe that the bulk of the early stuff no longer exists (and I certainly would like to be proved wrong on that opinion). With prices spiralling ever upwards, the lure of mega-dollars ought to loosen a few more (and, here, we're talking retirement money)?

 

Well, not if it really is that mythical four foot stack and if the owner is someone like Thibodeaux or whomever. I.e. if you're slowly divesting, you sell the good stuff last and let the ever increasing prices on the lesser material spiral the good stuff up and up and up.

 

If this is the scenario, we'll see the remaining key interiors sell before any of the early covers go.

 

I won't hold my breath on the early covers part of that scenario!

 

When the Marvel warehouse was virtually intact, I don't remember seeing anything listed to suggest that there were any early 1960s covers.

[Terry Doyle]

. . . another observation worth considering (that someone else made), was that if the early covers did indeed exist, you'd expect some of the non-key covers to have surfaced by now (here, I'm thinking things like the low-interest western books and the Millie the Model/girlie stuff)?

[Bronty]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

 

It's quite possible that there are still some early covers out there waiting to surface, but I still do believe that the bulk of the early stuff no longer exists (and I certainly would like to be proved wrong on that opinion). With prices spiralling ever upwards, the lure of mega-dollars ought to loosen a few more (and, here, we're talking retirement money)?

 

Well, not if it really is that mythical four foot stack and if the owner is someone like Thibodeaux or whomever. I.e. if you're slowly divesting, you sell the good stuff last and let the ever increasing prices on the lesser material spiral the good stuff up and up and up.

 

If this is the scenario, we'll see the remaining key interiors sell before any of the early covers go.

 

I won't hold my breath on the early covers part of that scenario!

 

When the Marvel warehouse was virtually intact, I don't remember seeing anything listed to suggest that there were any early 1960s covers.

 

Well what have we been talking about Terry? I'm not holding my breath either, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. Every time someone makes about why they don't exist (not needed for reprints, not part of the warehouse list) someone else makes a good point about why they might ( glen gold saying the covers went back in the same envelope, crowzilla above referencing a credible source re a sighting of the ff12 cover).

 

It wouldn't be so shocking if a few were out there. If a newsstand fresh action 1 can come to market out of the blue, a stash of 60s covers could appear one day. There's just no way to definitively say til a lot more time passes IMO. I don't think its likely but I do think its possible.

[Bronty]

. . . another observation worth considering (that someone else made), was that if the early covers did indeed exist, you'd expect some of the non-key covers to have surfaced by now (here, I'm thinking things like the low-interest western books and the Millie the Model/girlie stuff)?

 

And yet the rawhide kid point Glen made was a good one no? Why does 16 exist and magically 17 up don't?

[Terry Doyle]

That's a very interesting little tidbit.

 

It's quite possible that there are still some early covers out there waiting to surface, but I still do believe that the bulk of the early stuff no longer exists (and I certainly would like to be proved wrong on that opinion). With prices spiralling ever upwards, the lure of mega-dollars ought to loosen a few more (and, here, we're talking retirement money)?

 

Well, not if it really is that mythical four foot stack and if the owner is someone like Thibodeaux or whomever. I.e. if you're slowly divesting, you sell the good stuff last and let the ever increasing prices on the lesser material spiral the good stuff up and up and up.

 

If this is the scenario, we'll see the remaining key interiors sell before any of the early covers go.

 

I won't hold my breath on the early covers part of that scenario!

 

When the Marvel warehouse was virtually intact, I don't remember seeing anything listed to suggest that there were any early 1960s covers.

 

Well what have we been talking about Terry? I'm not holding my breath either, but I wouldn't totally rule it out. Every time someone makes about why they don't exist (not needed for reprints, not part of the warehouse list) someone else makes a good point about why they might ( glen gold saying the covers went back in the same envelope, crowzilla above referencing a credible source re a sighting of the ff12 cover).

 

It wouldn't be so shocking if a few were out there. If a newsstand fresh action 1 can come to market out of the blue, a stash of 60s covers could appear one day. There's just no way to definitively say til a lot more time passes IMO

 

I was never talking definites. Just weighing-up the parts of the equation we know. Heck, I'd love to see more stuff surface . . .

[Bronty]

(thumbs u

[Terry Doyle]

. . . another observation worth considering (that someone else made), was that if the early covers did indeed exist, you'd expect some of the non-key covers to have surfaced by now (here, I'm thinking things like the low-interest western books and the Millie the Model/girlie stuff)?

 

And yet the rawhide kid point Glen made was a good one no? Why does 16 exist and magically 17 up don't?

 

Probably the same reason only a handful of covers from the 1950s (Atlas) era exist? Odd examples did manage to escape the shredder, for whatever reason (e.g. artists would sometimes request the loan of examples and never return them back to the publisher . . . Al Williamson did that with some of his EC work, so when Bill Gaines gave Russ Cochran the go-ahead to auction the EC artwork vault, some cover and story examples were no longer in there).

 

I suspect that kind of thing happened at Marvel (Marie Severin requested, with the artist's blessing, some of Ditko's ASM art, including at least one cover that I know of).

[suspense39]

http://irenevartanoff.wordpress.com/2014/04/18/about-marvel-comics-original-artwork-in-the-1960s/