What Happened to Underground Comics?

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I've been reading Love and Rockets this summer. I've had a lot of fun with the book and enjoy reading something not as mainstream as other titles. I started looking for other similar things like Love and Rockets and I suddenly realized that a lot of the books being recommended were printed in the 90s.

 

So, what happened to underground comics? Did Diamond destroy them? Are they out there and I just don't know where to get them?

[kav]

Underground comics got merged into more mainstream stuff once they had broken the barriers of what could be done in comics.

[lizards2]

What he said.

[kav]

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I figured what Kav said, but I've seen some really racy stuff from some underground books. I don't see that same level in Image and other none big two publishers.

[kav]

Right I see what you're saying-no checkered demon level of graphic depictions-maybe when the shock wore off that stuff reached a dead end? And the other UG stuff that wasnt so graphic blended with the mainstream. I know Eros put out some very graphic books in the early 90's and they failed.

[vaillant]

I've been reading Love and Rockets this summer. I've had a lot of fun with the book and enjoy reading something not as mainstream as other titles. I started looking for other similar things like Love and Rockets and I suddenly realized that a lot of the books being recommended were printed in the 90s.

 

So, what happened to underground comics? Did Diamond destroy them? Are they out there and I just don't know where to get them?

 

Underground comics were tied to the period and cultural climate where they originated. Not mainstream does not necessarily mean underground.

Love and Rockets were "independent" comics as much as a lot of material published by smaller publishers.

 

I would suggest Dark Horse material: they did a lot of excellent things, even before they got bigger.

A book I enjoyed (and that remains in my collection) was "Optic Nerve" – maybe kav knows it…

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Culmination of factors...

 

Glut o crappy UGs c. 1970 & beyond (decrease in quality of work)

Rising cost of newsprint c. 1973

Miller v California (1973), where the Supreme Ct ruled that local municipalities could determine what is obscene. This broke down the head-shop network of distribution.

Improvement in zerox technology that gave way to newwave comix, 'zines, minis and eventually Alternative comics (ala Cerebus c. 77)

Key underground artists went above ground, e.g. became college professors (Stack), moved overseas (Shelton, Crumb), did more artsy projects (Speigelman, Griffith), or died (Griffin, Bode).

 

Some think that UGs do not exist anymore and I get that.

Zap Comix just put out issue #15 c 2007

Freak Brothers had new issues until the 'early oughts'

The hobby still fights censorship: http://cbldf.org/banned-comic/

There's this dude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Diana

 

 

[Brother J]

I personally never thought of Love and Rockets as an underground. The correct answer for me is that underground comix morphed. Part of it changed into the "ground level" or independent books, stuff like Cerebus, Elfquest and Love and Rockets. The underground part to me really moved to mini comics. They are still around, just not readily available at your everyday type comic shop. Some consider porn comic books underground, but to me, most of that lacks the creativity of the underground comix from the 60's-70's.

[kav]

I've been reading Love and Rockets this summer. I've had a lot of fun with the book and enjoy reading something not as mainstream as other titles. I started looking for other similar things like Love and Rockets and I suddenly realized that a lot of the books being recommended were printed in the 90s.

 

So, what happened to underground comics? Did Diamond destroy them? Are they out there and I just don't know where to get them?

 

Underground comics were tied to the period and cultural climate where they originated. Not mainstream does not necessarily mean underground.

Love and Rockets were "independent" comics as much as a lot of material published by smaller publishers.

 

I would suggest Dark Horse material: they did a lot of excellent things, even before they got bigger.

A book I enjoyed (and that remains in my collection) was "Optic Nerve" – maybe kav knows it…

I love Optic Nerve and Tomine lived not far from me when he started those-just incredible storytelling. Many of the scenes he depicts I recognize the area. I have a post card from him too.

I wish I had asked for drawings before he hit big time cause his stuff goes for R Crumb prices now.

[vaillant]

Another suggestion: WE3 by Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely (three issues miniseries).

 

[kav]

I personally never thought of Love and Rockets as an underground. The correct answer for me is that underground comix morphed. Part of it changed into the "ground level" or independent books, stuff like Cerebus, Elfquest and Love and Rockets. The underground part to me really moved to mini comics. They are still around, just not readily available at your everyday type comic shop. Some consider porn comic books underground, but to me, most of that lacks the creativity of the underground comix from the 60's-70's.

Yes porn does not equal underground. The checkered Demon was not porn per say Wilson was creating characters and a way of storytelling. The story came first, not the graphic images-that's how you can tell the difference. Cherry P is porn in my book-contrived 'stories' similar in plot to XXX movies.

[vaillant]

I love Optic Nerve and Tomine lived not far from me when he started those-just incredible storytelling. Many of the scenes he depicts I recognize the area. I have a post card from him too.

I wish I had asked for drawings before he hit big time cause his stuff goes for R Crumb prices now.

 

I would have sworn you loved Optic Nerve. It’s definitely one of the best original works emerging from the US scene in the 1990s. Similar things came from the french group "L'Association".

Great you’ve come to get in touch with him, I did not realize he has become very popular afterwards, as I follow the US market in a limited way now.

 

Brother J is right as the Hernandez's work is not underground, and while I see the point of oldmilwaukee6er I believe each effort or artistic group/movement has its beginning, development and end. Then, as it has been said, evolves.

Cerebus is surely somewhat "underground" in its premises, but it gave me the headache.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I sometimes hold up Jim Mahfood as someone who recalls the underground movement.

He self publishes, he's got that sex-drugs-music-politics vibe

Examples include Grrl Scouts, Stupid Comics, Felt, We Want Porn, & his mini comix

[vaillant]

Definitely, it’s not "outrage" that makes a work "underground" but at the same time underground had this element. That’s why probably I never liked it.

[kav]

Do you read any Jeffrey Brown stuff? I recommend 'funny misshapen body'

[vaillant]

I sometimes hold up Jim Mahfood as someone who recalls the underground movement.

He self publishes, he's got that sex-drugs-music-politics vibe

Examples include Grrl Scouts, Stupid Comics, Felt, We Want Porn, & his mini comix

 

Was there ever a link between late underground and the no-wave or early punk scene in New York and in the US? (Before punk "bloomed" in the UK, I mean)?

[kav]

I sometimes hold up Jim Mahfood as someone who recalls the underground movement.

He self publishes, he's got that sex-drugs-music-politics vibe

Examples include Grrl Scouts, Stupid Comics, Felt, We Want Porn, & his mini comix

 

Was there ever a link between late underground and the no-wave or early punk scene in New York and in the US? (Before punk "bloomed" in the UK, I mean)?

RAW

[vaillant]

Do you read any Jeffrey Brown stuff? I recommend 'funny misshapen body'

 

I think I saw some of his work at the time, but don’t recall… I’m not familiar with it.

As I said, there was a fine line between comics which still echoed, or attempted an "unerground new wave" and alternative independent comics of various genres.

 

I think the only other author which touched these territories and that to some degree I appreciate is Charles Burns. I’m not a big fan of Crumb, although he has clearly had a big evolution in his work and journey.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Was there ever a link between late underground and the no-wave or early punk scene in New York and in the US? (Before punk "bloomed" in the UK, I mean)?

 

That is a good question... and I am not well versed. I am sure there are comix out there that represent this scene. As best as I can tell, the only real link came in the name itself (new wave), which Jay Kennedy used in his seminal 1982 reference guide. He was trying to capture this transition period, could see UGs going above ground, and grounded that change in the punk movement (as the politics and vibe of UG/Alt books morphed). The name never caught on and we now commonly refer to this era as the rise of Alternative comics or Independent comics.