Mark's Jewels list?

[porcupine48]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

[W16227]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4778161&fpart=1

 

To add to the locations, you could possibly look for large Navy installations of servicemen coming home. This is discussed in the Bronze age forum on the topic, but while not as big or country club opulent as Air Force or Army bases in both Germany and Northern Italy, there were Navy bases in Sigonella, Naples, Gaeta (along with a very small submarine service base in Sardegna), and not to mention Nato assets that had Americans forces, and all the books I bought for several years had the inserts. A lot of these servicemen would have relocated to Norfolk, Hawaii, San Diego, or installations like Camp Lejune in North Carolina, very large Marine bases that still employed a lot of Navy personnel. While not large in number, Marines also provided security at Navy installations (as they did on Naval Ships and Consulants).

 

As I said in the other thread, while obviously talking about a very small group of people at a very specific time, kids in my elementary school, and even high school kids used to ritually tear these inserts out of their comics, for reasons that seemed normal then but I can't really recall why now (probably for no other reason that just seeing each other do it).

 

Al lot of notes I see - is that the inserts made the book more difficult to read - so many were torn out for that reason.

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

 

Nice. That is a really cool book to have one in. I take it u have kept it raw?

 

-J.

[vaillant]

I have a Fear #18 (first Wundarr) with both the MJ insert and an Alka Seltzer insert.

Love it!

[porcupine48]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

 

Nice. That is a really cool book to have one in. I take it u have kept it raw?

 

-J.

All my books but siggy series and Pedigree are free range!

[Jaydogrules]

I have a Fear #18 (first Wundarr) with both the MJ insert and an Alka Seltzer insert.

Love it!

 

That's a sweet one too. I'm starting to think somebody should start an "MJ/NDS Insert Club" over in the bronze section.

It might turn out to be a good way to gauge how many really are out there (and how many of them are in keys).

 

-J.

[JayT]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4778161&fpart=1

 

To add to the locations, you could possibly look for large Navy installations of servicemen coming home. This is discussed in the Bronze age forum on the topic, but while not as big or country club opulent as Air Force or Army bases in both Germany and Northern Italy, there were Navy bases in Sigonella, Naples, Gaeta (along with a very small submarine service base in Sardegna), and not to mention Nato assets that had Americans forces, and all the books I bought for several years had the inserts. A lot of these servicemen would have relocated to Norfolk, Hawaii, San Diego, or installations like Camp Lejune in North Carolina, very large Marine bases that still employed a lot of Navy personnel. While not large in number, Marines also provided security at Navy installations (as they did on Naval Ships and Consulants).

 

As I said in the other thread, while obviously talking about a very small group of people at a very specific time, kids in my elementary school, and even high school kids used to ritually tear these inserts out of their comics, for reasons that seemed normal then but I can't really recall why now (probably for no other reason that just seeing each other do it).

 

Al lot of notes I see - is that the inserts made the book more difficult to read - so many were torn out for that reason.

 

 

 

I guess that's possible but I don't personally recall that ever being an issue for me. I certainly never thought that.

[vaillant]

Jay, maybe we should keep the discussion merged in the other thread but I was thinking… I really never saw a MJ insert in Italy until you told me your own story.

I never saw any GA book as well, for that matter (unless bought later on by some sporadic collector)…

[RockMyAmadeus]

The real problem with these inserts is that, if they gain any real market traction, people will simply take them from a common issue, open up the staples, and there you go: variant.

 

Other than ultra high grade (9.6+), it would probably be unnoticeable.

 

Hopefully, then, these don't become valuable, so people don't fiddle with them out of greed.

 

To those interested: I would get them, now, before the above scenario has a chance to come to pass. Yes, I understand the paradox.

 

 

hard to say about that - how hard it is to detect married pages and covers now? --- would be similar except easier to find the specific insert (as opposed to finding a decent replacement cover). If the staples did not line up -even more noticeable as the inserts are very solid and opening the holes up would be really noticeable.

 

 

 

 

 

There are two main ways to detect married pages:

 

1. The staple alignment. Obviously, if there are staple holes in a page 1/2" away from the rest of the holes, that's the most likely indication that the page didn't come with the book originally.

 

2. Page tone. If a page is obviously lighter or darker than surrounding pages, it's probably a married page.

 

With MJ/NDS inserts, you don't have #2,and, while staple alignment wasn't standardized until really the mid 90's, it wasn't really that bad going into the 70's. It wouldn't be too difficult to find an insert that lines up "close enough."

 

Staple fiddling is fairly easy to see on very high grade books, but VF or worse...not so much.

[W16227]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

 

The collection I scored had some Charlton and of course the standard smattering of gold key and dell--- I will see if any of them line up with the right timeframe - and if they have the inserts. I do not remember any - but I usually look through those last so chances are I did not ckeck at all.

 

 

[porcupine48]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

 

The collection I scored had some Charlton and of course the standard smattering of gold key and dell--- I will see if any of them line up with the right timeframe - and if they have the inserts. I do not remember any - but I usually look through those last so chances are I did not ckeck at all.

 

I hope you find some...that brings up the query if Dell or GoldKey had any...

[Jaydogrules]

The real problem with these inserts is that, if they gain any real market traction, people will simply take them from a common issue, open up the staples, and there you go: variant.

 

Other than ultra high grade (9.6+), it would probably be unnoticeable.

 

Hopefully, then, these don't become valuable, so people don't fiddle with them out of greed.

 

To those interested: I would get them, now, before the above scenario has a chance to come to pass. Yes, I understand the paradox.

 

 

hard to say about that - how hard it is to detect married pages and covers now? --- would be similar except easier to find the specific insert (as opposed to finding a decent replacement cover). If the staples did not line up -even more noticeable as the inserts are very solid and opening the holes up would be really noticeable.

 

 

 

 

 

There are two main ways to detect married pages:

 

1. The staple alignment. Obviously, if there are staple holes in a page 1/2" away from the rest of the holes, that's the most likely indication that the page didn't come with the book originally.

 

2. Page tone. If a page is obviously lighter or darker than surrounding pages, it's probably a married page.

 

With MJ/NDS inserts, you don't have #2,and, while staple alignment wasn't standardized until really the mid 90's, it wasn't really that bad going into the 70's. It wouldn't be too difficult to find an insert that lines up "close enough."

 

Staple fiddling is fairly easy to see on very high grade books, but VF or worse...not so much.

 

I just don't think that would be as simple as that at all. In fact joeypost and a couple other boardies recently remarked in another thread how difficult (almost impossible) it is to re-bend staples back to their original kink without it being noticeable. These things were manufactured with the inserts as part of the center fold, they are therfore part of the comic. The tightness of the center fold and the integrity of the staples are two of the main things CGC is looking at on the interior of a comic.

 

It wouldn't be very difficult at all for them to spot staples that have been opened an re-closed around an insert that was not native to the book (ie widened staple holes, mismatched hole alignment, damage around the initial staple holes of the insert, etc.)

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The real problem with these inserts is that, if they gain any real market traction, people will simply take them from a common issue, open up the staples, and there you go: variant.

 

Other than ultra high grade (9.6+), it would probably be unnoticeable.

 

Hopefully, then, these don't become valuable, so people don't fiddle with them out of greed.

 

To those interested: I would get them, now, before the above scenario has a chance to come to pass. Yes, I understand the paradox.

 

 

hard to say about that - how hard it is to detect married pages and covers now? --- would be similar except easier to find the specific insert (as opposed to finding a decent replacement cover). If the staples did not line up -even more noticeable as the inserts are very solid and opening the holes up would be really noticeable.

 

 

 

 

 

There are two main ways to detect married pages:

 

1. The staple alignment. Obviously, if there are staple holes in a page 1/2" away from the rest of the holes, that's the most likely indication that the page didn't come with the book originally.

 

2. Page tone. If a page is obviously lighter or darker than surrounding pages, it's probably a married page.

 

With MJ/NDS inserts, you don't have #2,and, while staple alignment wasn't standardized until really the mid 90's, it wasn't really that bad going into the 70's. It wouldn't be too difficult to find an insert that lines up "close enough."

 

Staple fiddling is fairly easy to see on very high grade books, but VF or worse...not so much.

 

I just don't think that would be as simple as that at all. In fact joeypost and a couple other boardies recently remarked in another thread how difficult (almost impossible) it is to re-bend staples back to their original kink without it being noticeable.

 

My apologies, I wasn't aware you had experience doing this kind of work.

 

Suffice it to say, that is (mostly) correct. There are exceptions, and there are methods and techniques which mitigate the problem. However, none of that is the issue here.

 

These things were manufactured with the inserts as part of the center fold, they are therfore part of the comic. The tightness of the center fold and the integrity of the staples are two of the main things CGC is looking at on the interior of a comic.

 

Do you have much experience with CGC grading Bronze and Copper books? Especially non-high grade copies?

 

Would it surprise you to learn that CGC has graded books as high as 8.5 with a staple detached at the centerfold (and not "otherwise flawless")...?

 

Would it surprise you to learn that CGC has graded books as high as 9.8 that had slightly rusty staples on the inside?

 

It wouldn't be very difficult at all for them to spot staples that have been opened an re-closed around an insert that was not native to the book (ie widened staple holes, mismatched hole alignment, damage around the initial staple holes of the insert, etc.)

 

-J.

 

You are correct...it wouldn't be hard at all for them to spot staples that have been sloppily opened and reclosed on Silver Age and older books, where this sort of thing is common. It wouldn't be hard to see this kind of thing on a very high grade book, as well.

 

However....what makes you so sure that a mid-grade X-Men #94, with MATCHED hole alignment, and professional staple work, a book that already has widened staple holes from regular wear and tear, wouldn't be missed?

 

I don't think it is necessaily as obvious...especially on Bronze and Copper books...as you are suggesting here.

 

[vaillant]

Honestly, while I see them as a factor of added desirability, this is not much related to keys, at least not for me. The insert are nice if they are there, regardless of the issue, IMO.

[Jaydogrules]

The real problem with these inserts is that, if they gain any real market traction, people will simply take them from a common issue, open up the staples, and there you go: variant.

 

Other than ultra high grade (9.6+), it would probably be unnoticeable.

 

Hopefully, then, these don't become valuable, so people don't fiddle with them out of greed.

 

To those interested: I would get them, now, before the above scenario has a chance to come to pass. Yes, I understand the paradox.

 

 

hard to say about that - how hard it is to detect married pages and covers now? --- would be similar except easier to find the specific insert (as opposed to finding a decent replacement cover). If the staples did not line up -even more noticeable as the inserts are very solid and opening the holes up would be really noticeable.

 

 

 

 

 

There are two main ways to detect married pages:

 

1. The staple alignment. Obviously, if there are staple holes in a page 1/2" away from the rest of the holes, that's the most likely indication that the page didn't come with the book originally.

 

2. Page tone. If a page is obviously lighter or darker than surrounding pages, it's probably a married page.

 

With MJ/NDS inserts, you don't have #2,and, while staple alignment wasn't standardized until really the mid 90's, it wasn't really that bad going into the 70's. It wouldn't be too difficult to find an insert that lines up "close enough."

 

Staple fiddling is fairly easy to see on very high grade books, but VF or worse...not so much.

 

I just don't think that would be as simple as that at all. In fact joeypost and a couple other boardies recently remarked in another thread how difficult (almost impossible) it is to re-bend staples back to their original kink without it being noticeable.

 

My apologies, I wasn't aware you had experience doing this kind of work.

 

Suffice it to say, that is (mostly) correct. There are exceptions, and there are methods and techniques which mitigate the problem. However, none of that is the issue here.

 

These things were manufactured with the inserts as part of the center fold, they are therfore part of the comic. The tightness of the center fold and the integrity of the staples are two of the main things CGC is looking at on the interior of a comic.

 

Do you have much experience with CGC grading Bronze and Copper books? Especially non-high grade copies?

 

Would it surprise you to learn that CGC has graded books as high as 8.5 with a staple detached at the centerfold (and not "otherwise flawless")...?

 

Would it surprise you to learn that CGC has graded books as high as 9.8 that had slightly rusty staples on the inside?

 

It wouldn't be very difficult at all for them to spot staples that have been opened an re-closed around an insert that was not native to the book (ie widened staple holes, mismatched hole alignment, damage around the initial staple holes of the insert, etc.)

 

-J.

 

You are correct...it wouldn't be hard at all for them to spot staples that have been sloppily opened and reclosed on Silver Age and older books, where this sort of thing is common. It wouldn't be hard to see this kind of thing on a very high grade book, as well.

 

However....what makes you so sure that a mid-grade X-Men #94, with MATCHED hole alignment, and professional staple work, a book that already has widened staple holes from regular wear and tear, wouldn't be missed?

 

I don't think it is necessaily as obvious...especially on Bronze and Copper books...as you are suggesting here.

 

 

I think the point of the other boardies in the other thread is that it is difficult (if not impossible) to un-bend the legs of staples and then poke the little tiny staple prongs through all of the little tiny staple holes of the insert and then bend the legs back to their original kinks without it being noticeable. If CGC can (allegedly) detect "micro trimming" on books, I feel more than confident that they can tell whether or not the very things that hold the book together have been compromised. That really is pretty basic stuff. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the point of the other boardies in the other thread is that it is difficult (if not impossible) to un-bend the legs of staples and then poke the little tiny staple prongs through all of the little tiny staple holes of the insert and then bend the legs back to their original kinks without it being noticeable. If CGC can (allegedly) detect "micro trimming" on books, I feel more than confident that they can tell whether or not the very things that hold the book together have been compromised. That really is pretty basic stuff. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

This assumes that CGC gives the same scrutiny to a Thor #347 that they do a JIM #83....

[porcupine48]

Oh boy.....

Will this be epic..?

[Jaydogrules]

I think the point of the other boardies in the other thread is that it is difficult (if not impossible) to un-bend the legs of staples and then poke the little tiny staple prongs through all of the little tiny staple holes of the insert and then bend the legs back to their original kinks without it being noticeable. If CGC can (allegedly) detect "micro trimming" on books, I feel more than confident that they can tell whether or not the very things that hold the book together have been compromised. That really is pretty basic stuff. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

This assumes that CGC gives the same scrutiny to a Thor #347 that they do a JIM #83....

 

In theory that's the presumption but I ain't even goin there

 

-J.

[W16227]

I have a Marvel Spotlight #5 with insert.Was sold to me here,the seller did not know what the cardboard and extra staple was.Neither did I for some time.

Does anyone have a Charlton with an insert?I'd love to see it if anyone does.

 

The collection I scored had some Charlton and of course the standard smattering of gold key and dell--- I will see if any of them line up with the right timeframe - and if they have the inserts. I do not remember any - but I usually look through those last so chances are I did not ckeck at all.

 

I hope you find some...that brings up the query if Dell or GoldKey had any...

 

 

Alright - my job sorting this collection just got a lot more interesting -

 

have not found dells yet (meaning not found any to look at)

 

 

 

Gold Key = YES - found 2 grims ghost stories - and one "dagar the invincable" -

 

 

 

 

Archies............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yea buddy - again not really looked too hard yet - but PEP 266 has a marks insert - 1972 - it is one of the newer "cover gloss stock" ones (not the cardboard) -

 

 

I will post some pics later tonight - gotta hunt more down.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Metarog]

I was going to say that Gold Key has them as I have had several... I have never seen a Charlton, Atlas/Seaboard, Skywald, Harvey or Archie (until now). It will be interesting to actually see an Archie with it though.