There Are No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items

[VintageComics]

 

On how NOT to treat customers.

 

 

[kav]

Adult title

[Aces]

There Are No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items

 

This is a little tricky.

Remember there are two kinds of people selling comics, dealers and private collectors.

 

 

Dealers are businesses that always (or should always) have cash on hand to buy new stock or accept the occasional return.

Dealers should have a return policy even for graded books.

 

A private collector often is selling some/all of his comics for emergency cash for a medial bill or car repair or might even be selling under a court order (tax court/divorce court/bankruptcy court) so the money is going to be gone and won't be there for a refund.

 

However if someone is selling under a "No Returns On 3rd Party Graded Items" policy they are obliged to post full uncropped large hi-res scans of the front and back cover and make sure they use bullet proof packing and purchase full insurance from the post office so if the comic/slab is damaged in any way during shipping the buyer is protected.

 

 

[MediumLover]

No back cover scans, no returns ?

That's a different story, especially on comics that aren't graded NM. There could be a surprise back there and on a high dollar item a return is reasonable. But if there was a large clear back cover scan, I'd say no returns.

 

I was taking a shot at a certain auction house.

[stroszek]

A grader is a grader whether it's CGC or anyone else. If I don't agree with the grade, I expect to be able to return it.

 

I don't understand how you can believe this.

 

One of CGCs purposes is to have a level playing field where the grading isn't all over the place (ahem) and you can trust the grade will be what it says on the label.

 

If I sell you a 8.0 book and you write me on ebay the book's grade isn't what you think is on the label....I would tell you to call CGC. That's not my fault. If I have nice size pictures or scans and that doesn't provide enough info for you to decide on the grade of a slabbed book...then don't buy it.

 

If someone is really irate (which has not happened yet, thankfully), I will definitely return the book. But as a general rule, I put no returns and have not seen a lack of response to my slabbed auctions.

 

 

Your assumption here is that CGC is somehow an "official" grader.

 

I don't view them any differently than any dealer or collector who grades a book, though I realize the CGC grade carries plenty of weight in the market. But they're wrong sometimes. And it's not always apparent in a scan.

 

If I handed you a book and said it was a 9.6, but it was really more of a 9.0, would you sell it to someone and respond to their complaint with, "Hey, go talk to that guy, he's the one who graded it. It's not my fault."

 

 

[BassGMan]

I get why people would say that. but it just makes a seller look so much better and more professional if they have a blanket "returns accepted" policy.

 

+1. This is all there is to it - Period.

It's that golden rule thing. Treat people the way you want to be treated.

 

If I was to purchase a slab and it arrived safely, even if I wanted to return it I would not expect the seller to accept my return. As a seller I would feel the same way. That's the golden rule, treat others as I expect to be treated, and I take responsibility for my purchases and I expect those who buy from me to do the same. Granted if I screw up as a seller that is a different matter.

[VintageComics]

For a second there, I thought that the golden rule was to treat others the way everyone else thinks you should treat them.

 

I'm in the camp of BassGMan in that doing unto others the way I would want done to myself is the correct way in almost every aspect of life. And that decision is going to be different depending on how each individual wants to be treated. Personally, I prefer to take accountability for my decisions.

 

Not that I am entirely against offering full refunds on anything to anyone, but I as a person don't like being unfairly taken advantage of (Virgos are all about 'fair') so I'm curious as to why those that do believe in a blanket refund policy believe strongly about it?

 

I think I know the reasons why but I'm asking what others think and more importantly, why they think it?

 

 

[stroszek]

For a second there, I thought that the golden rule was to treat others the way everyone else thinks you should treat them.

 

I'm in the camp of BassGMan in that doing unto others the way I would want done to myself is the correct way in almost every aspect of life. And that decision is going to be different depending on how each individual wants to be treated. Personally, I prefer to take accountability for my decisions.

 

Not that I am entirely against offering full refunds on anything to anyone, but I as a person don't like being unfairly taken advantage of (Virgos are all about 'fair') so I'm curious as to why those that do believe in a blanket refund policy believe strongly about it?

 

I think I know the reasons why but I'm asking what others think and more importantly, why they think it?

 

 

I realize there's a potential for abuse by buyers. I'd have no argument with a seller who told a buyer to take his business elsewhere after too many returns the seller felt were unjustified. And maybe two is too many. That's for the seller to decide.

 

But I also think some sellers want to rely on CGC as a blanket excuse. Would anyone say "No returns on books graded by my friend Frank!" or "No returns on books graded by my mom!" So why say it just because CGC did the grading?

 

I've only ever returned one slab that I purchased. It was a square-bound annual CGC graded an 8.5. When I got it I saw that it had a 1 1/2 inch spine split on the bottom. That's no 8.5 to me and it also wasn't apparent in the scan. The seller had a no return on CGC books policy but when I explained my specific objections he agreed to the return. I'd never have done business with him again if he refused. Instead he's gotten repeat business from me because he did the right thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

But I also think some sellers want to rely on CGC as a blanket excuse. Would anyone say "No returns on books graded by my friend Frank!" or "No returns on books graded by my mom!" So why say it just because CGC did the grading?

 

Fair point and I can't disagree with you.

 

I've only ever returned one slab that I purchased. It was a square-bound annual CGC graded an 8.5. When I got it I saw that it had a 1 1/2 inch spine split on the bottom. That's no 8.5 to me and it also wasn't apparent in the scan. The seller had a no return on CGC books policy but when I explained my specific objections he agreed to the return. I'd never have done business with him again if he refused. Instead he's gotten repeat business from me because he did the right thing.

 

As a seller, I'd have done the same. (thumbs u

[Murphman13]

61% to 5% to 74% ?

 

Must be this new math they are teaching in schools.

[Bosco685]

I've only ever returned one slab that I purchased. It was a square-bound annual CGC graded an 8.5. When I got it I saw that it had a 1 1/2 inch spine split on the bottom. That's no 8.5 to me and it also wasn't apparent in the scan. The seller had a no return on CGC books policy but when I explained my specific objections he agreed to the return. I'd never have done business with him again if he refused. Instead he's gotten repeat business from me because he did the right thing.

 

That is a hurdle for sellers when it comes to CGC grading. Sellers want to offer these up because books processed by a third-party are supposed to be a jointly accepted standard with the buyer. But then when buyers receive the book, if they disagree with CGC's grading it is at the expense of the seller to take the book back and potentially deal with the return shipping expense.

 

The bulk of my transactions are as a collector/buyer rather than a seller. But I can see how this could be a tough business model to maintain when you are dealing with return expenses like this. If there are going to be disagreements with CGC grading, why buy CGC processed books? Just buy raw candidates, and now it truly is a discussion between the seller and buyer what condition a book is in.

[N/A]

61% to 5% to 74% ?

 

Must be this new math they are teaching in schools.

 

Put on your glasses.

[Bosco685]

61% to 5% to 74% ?

 

Must be this new math they are teaching in schools.

 

I think you mixed up some percentages with counts.

 

 

[romanheart]

I just want to say large front/back cover scans do not always tell the whole story. I know there are people that used comiclink to offload books with overspray that will not be caught on a 2d view of the book, wasn't listed as having it, and due to CL's CGC policy you are officially with recourse.

[the blob]

I've only ever returned one slab that I purchased. It was a square-bound annual CGC graded an 8.5. When I got it I saw that it had a 1 1/2 inch spine split on the bottom. That's no 8.5 to me and it also wasn't apparent in the scan. The seller had a no return on CGC books policy but when I explained my specific objections he agreed to the return. I'd never have done business with him again if he refused. Instead he's gotten repeat business from me because he did the right thing.

 

 

The problem with a spine split like that is that it could have occurred after slabbing if there was enough shaking and impact of whatever. some of those square bounds can be very delicate right there.

[the blob]

For CGC books I don't take a return on ebay unless there is shipping damage etc.

 

If they decide the grade doesn't match their standards...that's not my fault. It's graded by a third party and they should know it is subjective.

 

On the boards, I will take a return because of our community. ebay is different in my eyes.

 

(thumbs u

 

except, as no doubt noted elsewhere in this thread, books can get damaged in slabs over time (or in very little time), so it is tricky. obviously, something like a coffee cup stain or a big 3 inch crease isn't going to happen like that, but corner blunting/damage, sun fading, increase in foxing, a spine split getting worse can easily happen in a slab and you don't even need to have gorillas throwing them around. worse, you can have water damage in the slab. it will still say 9.0 on there.

[Mr.Diggler]

You can't paint everyone with the same brush. Well, you *can*, but it's very bad business. Not accepting returns, regardless of why, is amateur, and smacks of "I've got something to hide", even if that's not even remotely true. It sends a message that you're just trying to foist off a problem to someone else, again, even if it's not true. "You bought it, it's your problem now."

 

That doesn't mean you can't ask why, and even try to persuade the buyer, but ultimately, if someone doesn't want the item, forcing them to keep it always comes back to haunt you in the end. Just take it back, block that buyer, and sell it to someone else.

(thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

I've only ever returned one slab that I purchased. It was a square-bound annual CGC graded an 8.5. When I got it I saw that it had a 1 1/2 inch spine split on the bottom. That's no 8.5 to me and it also wasn't apparent in the scan. The seller had a no return on CGC books policy but when I explained my specific objections he agreed to the return. I'd never have done business with him again if he refused. Instead he's gotten repeat business from me because he did the right thing.

 

That is a hurdle for sellers when it comes to CGC grading. Sellers want to offer these up because books processed by a third-party are supposed to be a jointly accepted standard with the buyer. But then when buyers receive the book, if they disagree with CGC's grading it is at the expense of the seller to take the book back and potentially deal with the return shipping expense.

 

The bulk of my transactions are as a collector/buyer rather than a seller. But I can see how this could be a tough business model to maintain when you are dealing with return expenses like this. If there are going to be disagreements with CGC grading, why buy CGC processed books? Just buy raw candidates, and now it truly is a discussion between the seller and buyer what condition a book is in.

CGC is trusted and much more reliable than an ebay grader, but it's not infallible. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

[the blob]

You can't paint everyone with the same brush. Well, you *can*, but it's very bad business. Not accepting returns, regardless of why, is amateur, and smacks of "I've got something to hide", even if that's not even remotely true. It sends a message that you're just trying to foist off a problem to someone else, again, even if it's not true. "You bought it, it's your problem now."

 

That doesn't mean you can't ask why, and even try to persuade the buyer, but ultimately, if someone doesn't want the item, forcing them to keep it always comes back to haunt you in the end. Just take it back, block that buyer, and sell it to someone else.

(thumbs u

 

Although i can see why a seller might balk at paying round trip return shipping on a slab return unless it is one of those aforementioned "looks like it got damaged in the slab" scenarios (which cover a lot of potential damage) unless the seller is darn well sure that's what the book looked like before it was sent to cgc

[VintageComics]

I just want to say large front/back cover scans do not always tell the whole story.

 

I agree 100%. (thumbs u