Sotheby's

[vodou]

Doesn't exist in north america but there was some discussion of it if you search the forums. The idea is often artists don't get the benefit of those high resale values. I.e. let's say jack kirby was still alive and he really didn't have a lot of money yet his work was selling for large amounts, it would give him financial comfort as a result of his contributions. I agree with you though. Sorry but once something is sold, its sold. I think those laws could (perhaps do?) create as many or more problems than they solve.

 

It's absurd. On the flip side if this law existed in NA then I would expect to be compensated by an artist when I took a loss especially after buying direct from an artist.

 

perfect example.

Ah you guys don't really get it. This has nothing to do with anything but the interests of artists and the management structure (of collections and payments). They're the ones lobbying for this. They're the socialist squeaky wheel. And the Western world has been sliding in that direction for a very long time. Thinking of it from that direction, is it any wonder this concept originated in France? As far as being absurd, it's only absurd to those that will not benefit. Those that will, their lobbyists (also benefiting), and their representatives that will vote on it (again, benefiting)...all think this makes great sense and can't believe anybody would disagree. It's such a wonderful idea, how has it not already been put to law? Oh geez...let's hurry up and fix this grave inequality (see how positive it can sound?) But that's how the political machine works. For better or worse, it's only a bad idea to those that do not benefit. Otherwise apathy (who cares, doesn't affect me) or unorganized disagreement (a voice here, a voice there). And before you get too upset about that, try to remember how you feel about ideas that you agree with that get codified in law, seems like it's something that should have been done ages ago, how could anybody disagree?, etc etc etc. We're all the same, each trying to grab a little something extra from somebody else, and if we can use the coercive force of government to "make" it happen...all the better right? Except for those that do not benefit or disagree (on general principle), of course

[Bird]

here we go again, making up ludicrous extensions of this law and cries from the chicken littles. This one gets more conjecture and hyperbole that doesn't relate to the actual topic than Stan vs Jack ever does.

[Bronty]

Yeah I get that. Artists who are poor but have high resale values are the people this law will ostensibly protect but of course it benefits wealthy artists with even higher resale values even more.

 

At the end of the day its the buyers like us (and arguably the sellers, like us) that suffer through what amounts to a sales tax.

[Bird]

In most drafts of this type of law that we have seen or discussed comic art would not be included as it is production art but that doesn't stop chicken little

 

okay,enough from me on this lest the pitchforks and torches come out as they usually do!

 

[Bronty]

here we go again, making up ludicrous extensions of this law and cries from the chicken littles. This one gets more conjecture and hyperbole that doesn't relate to the actual topic than Stan vs Jack ever does.

 

We're debating here we're not "making up" anything? You sound a little emotionally charged on it, this isn't life or death here.

 

If I buy something produced by Jim Lee (or Takashi Murakami for that matter) from a third party, the artist should not in fairness have a claim to a single dime of that money, IMO. You can disagree but that doesn't mean we are making stuff up and disagreeing with the concept doesn't make either side bad people, by the way.

[Bronty]

In most drafts of this type of law that we have seen or discussed comic art would not be included as it is production art but that doesn't stop chicken little

 

okay,enough from me on this lest the pitchforks and torches come out as they usually do!

 

that's an important distinction, but what about, say Boris Vallejo fantasy paintings done for no commercial reason, or paintings or drawings put out by "comic" artists that are not "production"? What about commissions?

 

Regardless of what type of art it applies to, I personally disagree with the concept.

[Bird]

well, talking about losses and having the artist pay you actually is just...making stuff up.

 

talking about comic art when it is explicitly exempt is just..making stuff up

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

[Bronty]

well, talking about losses and having the artist pay you actually is just...making stuff up.

 

Its just pointing out that any system where the artist only shares in the gains is unfair. Of course, IMO its already unfair if they share in both the gains and losses - its not their property.

[Bronty]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

[Bird]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either. Although I got called some nasty names last time this came up and I endorsed the idea.

[tth2]

Doesn't exist in north america but there was some discussion of it if you search the forums. The idea is often artists don't get the benefit of those high resale values. I.e. let's say jack kirby was still alive and he really didn't have a lot of money yet his work was selling for large amounts, it would give him financial comfort as a result of his contributions. I agree with you though. Sorry but once something is sold, its sold. I think those laws could (perhaps do?) create as many or more problems than they solve.

In a nutshell, it's why Europe is so f:censored:ed.

[vodou]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either. Although I got called some nasty names last time this came up and I endorsed the idea.

Instead of all that, why don't you give us your logical and well-thought out endorsement argument. You may not change anybody's minds, but I'm at least interested in reading it. But -and this goes for everybody- if you're all about the "fairness" for the underdogs but don't file your annual tax returns with a capital gains statement for art and other collectible sales we all do from time to time...I'm gonna call hypocritical bs on that. Cuz that's a form of robbery. Robbery from anybody that benefits from redistribution of collected taxes. Federal, state, local governments, charities, public schools, and the many redistribution programs. And those on the payrolls of same. And yes, I do file fully and completely for all economic activity. As much as I philosophically disagree with doing so, it ain't worth the penalties and it's intellectually dishonest.

[Bronty]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either.

 

Yes - didn't mean for it to sound like that was directed at you, my bad (thumbs u

[Bird]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either.

 

Yes - didn't mean for it to sound like that was directed at you, my bad (thumbs u

 

Like I said, groovy! It's all good.

[Bird]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either. Although I got called some nasty names last time this came up and I endorsed the idea.

Instead of all that, why don't you give us your logical and well-thought out endorsement argument. You may not change anybody's minds, but I'm at least interested in reading it. But -and this goes for everybody- if you're all about the "fairness" for the underdogs but don't file your annual tax returns with a capital gains statement for art and other collectible sales we all do from time to time...I'm gonna call hypocritical bs on that. Cuz that's a form of robbery. Robbery from anybody that benefits from redistribution of collected taxes. Federal, state, local governments, charities, public schools, and the many redistribution programs. And those on the payrolls of same. And yes, I do file fully and completely for all economic activity. As much as I philosophically disagree with doing so, it ain't worth the penalties and it's intellectually dishonest.

 

nah, I am not here to entertain you or satisfy your interest. If you are really so interested, use the search function. Like I said, the point is moot. (I really wish I could find that from the old SNL Jane Curtain/Dan Ackroyd Weekend Update segment!)

[innocuous]

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2015/bande-dessinee-pf1555.html

 

Uderzo!

Time to start saving.

[Bronty]

[mister_not_so_nice]

 

I could go on but it really is moot

 

 

agreed

 

groovy

 

never said anyone was a bad person either. Although I got called some nasty names last time this came up and I endorsed the idea.

Instead of all that, why don't you give us your logical and well-thought out endorsement argument. You may not change anybody's minds, but I'm at least interested in reading it. But -and this goes for everybody- if you're all about the "fairness" for the underdogs but don't file your annual tax returns with a capital gains statement for art and other collectible sales we all do from time to time...I'm gonna call hypocritical bs on that. Cuz that's a form of robbery. Robbery from anybody that benefits from redistribution of collected taxes. Federal, state, local governments, charities, public schools, and the many redistribution programs. And those on the payrolls of same. And yes, I do file fully and completely for all economic activity. As much as I philosophically disagree with doing so, it ain't worth the penalties and it's intellectually dishonest.

 

nah, I am not here to entertain you or satisfy your interest. If you are really so interested, use the search function. Like I said, the point is moot. (I really wish I could find that from the old SNL Jane Curtain/Dan Ackroyd Weekend Update segment!)

 

[MHoes]

In a nutshell, it's why Europe is so f:censored:ed.

Hey! Im f:censored:ing European ! (Dutch, actually), and generally I love it here. Still think this is a weird law, though. Didnt mean to turn this nice Sotheby/Christie discussion into a 'all-Europeans-are-f'ing-socialists' thread, though. Now back to the topic, you all !

[NicoV]

I'm also a f:censored:ing European ! And I was a seller in the Christies auction in April, so I had to pay this tax for a few pages. No need to say that I'm not fond of it, and the authors I was selling pages (or Moebius' heirs) did not really need that money! ;-)