Collectibles are worthless...

[Hamlet]

Sure, fiat currencies fail periodically, but that doesn't mean countries go back to gold. They just end up with a new fiat currency.

 

Frankly, the history of countries successfully staying on the gold standard is pretty weak. Pretty much every time there is a war, the gold standard breaks down for a large number of the countries. They end up leaving the gold standard, coming back, etc.

 

Gold just doesn't make a good currency. It's value fluctuates fairly dramatically based on supply/demand for it as a commodity and as a speculation vehicle. Look at the last 14 years. It's gone from $300/oz to $1850/oz back to $1200/oz. In the runnup it's purchasing power about quadrupled, and in the decline it's lost more than a third of its purchasing power in two years.

 

The dollar is a marvel of stability in purchasing power compared to gold.

 

And yet, oddly enough, you could do just that for millennia. It has only been the last 50 years or so that that hasn't been true worldwide. The United States Government actually made money out of gold in the shape of coins, legal tender for all debts, public and private, until 1933. In 1925, you could buy groceries at the market and hand someone a $2.50 gold coin in payment.

 

Again...the only thing that prevents this is that governments around the world have gotten away with fiat currency...and once that collapses, as all fiat currency eventually does, we will be back to using metals in exchange for goods and services. Probably not in our lifetimes, but certainly within the lives of our great-grandchildren.

 

 

[Erndog]

I don't know if collectibles are a U.S. thing, but I'm starting to think that the crazy amounts of money spent, were spent on something that is so illiquid unless you're living in the U.S. so anyway, I live in the UAE (Dubai) and a few months back I wanted to sell some of my valuable comics on a popular classified site, but there was no interest what so ever. People were even messaging me and telling me I was crazy to expect to get that much for a comic book. We are talking comics like Spiderman #50, 122, Hulk 181 etc.

 

I see the same thing happening with Legos now, and it seems to have become a fad right after the Lego movie, people hoarding sets hoping they'll sell them for huge profits. But at the end of the day, as much as you might love the blocks, no one in their right mind is going to pay $5,000 for a toy. Collectibles just present an illusion of gold, but they are not worth anything.

 

 

This is an absolute HILARIOUS line of thinking.

 

"Collectibles are worthless"? Alright, just give your books away then.

[jaeldubyoo]

Amin80, you're right. Your comics are worthless...to the people you're trying to sell to over there. It's like me trying to sell a comic to my wife. You'll get a stare that could kill.

 

Try selling them to the people that want them.

[Westy Steve]

Have ya'll considered that maybe gold stays steady and our dollar fluctuates instead? I did a report back when I was in college about the price of gold, and I plotted the price over time after removing inflation. It was a surprisingly flat line. Perhaps recently our dollar strengthened, and that's why gold made a move downward.

 

Edit: Also, as an aside, the value of things change over time because we all agree they change. Someone announces that Ms. Marvel will be in a movie and Oh My God, the prices jump because demand goes up and everyone just agrees it should be worth twice what it was on Monday because that's what all movies do to the price of books. We're sheep!

 

I collect currency also, and after a while of collecting it, and trying to find newly printed star notes, it really drove home the point that it was just a bunch of worthless paper and ink. Ok, maybe with some fabric mixed in there, but you get the drift. A dollar costs a couple of cents to print...but we all believe they are worth $1, even though they aren't backed by anything other than the perceived value and stability of the U.S. Heck, if an armored car from the Mint gets into a horrific wreck and dollars are destroyed in a fire, they just print up some replacements. Why not? They're cheap to make! We're sheep!

 

Steve

[revat]

Have ya'll considered that maybe gold stays steady and our dollar fluctuates instead? I did a report back when I was in college about the price of gold, and I plotted the price over time after removing inflation. It was a surprisingly flat line. Perhaps recently our dollar strengthened, and that's why gold made a move downward.

 

I agree, I think some of the argument is based on perspective.

[VintageComics]

Sure, fiat currencies fail periodically, but that doesn't mean countries go back to gold. They just end up with a new fiat currency.

 

Frankly, the history of countries successfully staying on the gold standard is pretty weak. Pretty much every time there is a war, the gold standard breaks down for a large number of the countries. They end up leaving the gold standard, coming back, etc.

 

Gold just doesn't make a good currency. It's value fluctuates fairly dramatically based on supply/demand for it as a commodity and as a speculation vehicle. Look at the last 14 years. It's gone from $300/oz to $1850/oz back to $1200/oz. In the runnup it's purchasing power about quadrupled, and in the decline it's lost more than a third of its purchasing power in two years.

 

The dollar is a marvel of stability in purchasing power compared to gold.

 

And yet, oddly enough, you could do just that for millennia. It has only been the last 50 years or so that that hasn't been true worldwide. The United States Government actually made money out of gold in the shape of coins, legal tender for all debts, public and private, until 1933. In 1925, you could buy groceries at the market and hand someone a $2.50 gold coin in payment.

 

Again...the only thing that prevents this is that governments around the world have gotten away with fiat currency...and once that collapses, as all fiat currency eventually does, we will be back to using metals in exchange for goods and services. Probably not in our lifetimes, but certainly within the lives of our great-grandchildren.

 

 

Haven't currencies fluctuated?

 

How is US purchasing power now relative to the ROW with much increased debt and reduced credit ratings?

[jimjum12]

Gold is the original fiat currency...... it only has value when more important commodities abound. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Garf]

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

If there is no recovery in site, gold will have little relative value because of it. Of course, the beauty of the human race is progress and recovery is always in the cards.

 

 

And there you have, as I've said, the reason why "you can't eat gold, so it will be worthless!!" is erroneous.

 

There is always a recovery in sight. Chaos isn't unending. People recover, even if it's only as a matter of adapting to new circumstances. Normalization is what humanity does. And when that inevitably happens...as it always does...precious metal will have the same utility it has had for millennia.

 

Of course, recovery is boring, and lacks drama, which is why pop culture rarely depicts that aspect of humanity, so it may be a case of perception alteration by repeated exposure to depictions of unending chaos.

[jimjum12]

 

If there is no recovery in site, gold will have little relative value because of it. Of course, the beauty of the human race is progress and recovery is always in the cards.

 

 

And there you have, as I've said, the reason why "you can't eat gold, so it will be worthless!!" is erroneous.

 

There is always a recovery in sight. Chaos isn't unending. People recover, even if it's only as a matter of adapting to new circumstances. Normalization is what humanity does. And when that inevitably happens...as it always does...precious metal will have the same utility it has had for millennia.

 

Of course, recovery is boring, and lacks drama, which is why pop culture rarely depicts that aspect of humanity, so it may be a case of perception alteration by repeated exposure to depictions of unending chaos.

 

...... and this is exactly why eventually a fiat currency can be maintained..... provided the social evolution of the species continues on an upward trajectory. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[revat]

 

If there is no recovery in site, gold will have little relative value because of it. Of course, the beauty of the human race is progress and recovery is always in the cards.

 

 

And there you have, as I've said, the reason why "you can't eat gold, so it will be worthless!!" is erroneous.

 

There is always a recovery in sight. Chaos isn't unending. People recover, even if it's only as a matter of adapting to new circumstances. Normalization is what humanity does. And when that inevitably happens...as it always does...precious metal will have the same utility it has had for millennia.

 

Of course, recovery is boring, and lacks drama, which is why pop culture rarely depicts that aspect of humanity, so it may be a case of perception alteration by repeated exposure to depictions of unending chaos.

 

...... and this is exactly why eventually a fiat currency can be maintained..... provided the social evolution of the species continues on an upward trajectory. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

I think RMA's point is that right now, gold can be traded in any country in the world for currency which can be used to purchase goods and services (of course to varying values). If there was an apocalypse, the first 10 years might be all about trading food for shelter for weapons, but most likely gold would become a de facto fiat currency again. AND at some point there would be a NEW Paper currency, which again people could likely trade gold for. VERY unlikely that someone could trade their old USD for the New USD.

 

How important that is to any given person? Who knows. But I don't think its unreasonable to think that way.

 

And for those touting credit cards, you can't get even get the best Chinese food in Los Angeles, NYC, or Hong Kong with your visa. But if you bring some gold I bet you get fed.

[21Pittsburgh58]

Damn you Nixon for getting rid of the gold standard. You weren't a crook, but you were a .

[Dr. Balls]

And there you have, as I've said, the reason why "you can't eat gold, so it will be worthless!!" is erroneous.

 

You can't eat it, but you can sure sniff it.

[Hamlet]

If it was the dollar fluctuating, you would see dramatic changes over that time period in the dollar's ability to purchase other goods.

 

Gold has dropped about 30% in two years. Are other things you buy with dollars 30% cheaper than they were 2 years ago? Gas probably is, but that is about it. By almost any measure, there has been slight inflation over the last two years. People can argue whether it has been 2-6% total-- it all depends on what basket of goods you choose to measure. There is no way it was -30%

 

Likewise, when gold went from 300 to 1850, were other things that you purchase six times as expensive in that timeframe? Did your rent go from $500 to $3000 in 8 years? probably not.

 

The value of gold evens out over very long periods of time, but year to year it fluctuates like the stock market. That is a terrible quality in a currency.

 

Have ya'll considered that maybe gold stays steady and our dollar fluctuates instead? I did a report back when I was in college about the price of gold, and I plotted the price over time after removing inflation. It was a surprisingly flat line. Perhaps recently our dollar strengthened, and that's why gold made a move downward.

 

Edit: Also, as an aside, the value of things change over time because we all agree they change. Someone announces that Ms. Marvel will be in a movie and Oh My God, the prices jump because demand goes up and everyone just agrees it should be worth twice what it was on Monday because that's what all movies do to the price of books. We're sheep!

 

I collect currency also, and after a while of collecting it, and trying to find newly printed star notes, it really drove home the point that it was just a bunch of worthless paper and ink. Ok, maybe with some fabric mixed in there, but you get the drift. A dollar costs a couple of cents to print...but we all believe they are worth $1, even though they aren't backed by anything other than the perceived value and stability of the U.S. Heck, if an armored car from the Mint gets into a horrific wreck and dollars are destroyed in a fire, they just print up some replacements. Why not? They're cheap to make! We're sheep!

 

Steve

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sure, fiat currencies fail periodically, but that doesn't mean countries go back to gold. They just end up with a new fiat currency.

 

Frankly, the history of countries successfully staying on the gold standard is pretty weak. Pretty much every time there is a war, the gold standard breaks down for a large number of the countries. They end up leaving the gold standard, coming back, etc.

 

Gold just doesn't make a good currency. It's value fluctuates fairly dramatically based on supply/demand for it as a commodity and as a speculation vehicle. Look at the last 14 years. It's gone from $300/oz to $1850/oz back to $1200/oz. In the runnup it's purchasing power about quadrupled, and in the decline it's lost more than a third of its purchasing power in two years.

 

The dollar is a marvel of stability in purchasing power compared to gold.

 

In the apocalypse, it is assumed that "countries" no longer have any meaning, and national authorities will be gone, or at least rendered ineffectual, so an advanced national concept like "going back to the gold standard" will be a long time coming, if at all.

 

I'm speaking of individual transactions between people and in communities, which are the building blocks of all civilization.

 

As others have said, it isn't the value of the gold fluctuating. It is, rather, the value of the fiat currency against gold. As I said before, the value of gold has been consistent for centuries, if not millennia: roughly 16:1 silver to gold. 16 parts silver, to 1 part gold. Comparing tangible to tangible, metal to metal.

 

Fiat currency, on the other hand, is what moves, and often wildly. As Westy Steve said, if you compare the purchasing power of gold over the long term, it is very stable. The real issue at the moment is the disparity in value between silver and gold, which is currently about 70:1.

 

It is true, gold doesn't make a good currency...in nations which have forced fiat currency upon their populaces. These nations would far rather have the ability to control the money supply...for obvious reasons...rather than have wealth controlled by the limitations of extant metal. It's easy, and cheap, to print money. It's not so easy to make gold materialize out of the ground.

 

Gold is NOT "fiat currency." Gold has intrinsic value that trumps whatever "perception" of value it may have.

 

Gold doesn't rust. It is one of the least reactive elements that exists. It resists most acids (meaning, its genuineness can be easily tested.) It is ultra-malleable, meaning it can be easily beaten into very thin sheets. It is the most ductile of all metals, meaning one ounce of gold can make a wire 1250 miles long. It is naturally lustrous, giving it visible beauty and warmth. It is very dense, which means a small amount carries a decent amount of weight, and it is easily transportable.

 

These, and other properties of gold...far beyond "perception of value"...is why gold became a method of exchange in the first place. Fiat currency has none of those properties. The intrinsic worth of a Zimbabwean $100,000,000,000 note from 2008 is as kindling, which lasts about 5-10 seconds.

[jimjum12]

 

If there is no recovery in site, gold will have little relative value because of it. Of course, the beauty of the human race is progress and recovery is always in the cards.

 

 

And there you have, as I've said, the reason why "you can't eat gold, so it will be worthless!!" is erroneous.

 

There is always a recovery in sight. Chaos isn't unending. People recover, even if it's only as a matter of adapting to new circumstances. Normalization is what humanity does. And when that inevitably happens...as it always does...precious metal will have the same utility it has had for millennia.

 

Of course, recovery is boring, and lacks drama, which is why pop culture rarely depicts that aspect of humanity, so it may be a case of perception alteration by repeated exposure to depictions of unending chaos.

 

...... and this is exactly why eventually a fiat currency can be maintained..... provided the social evolution of the species continues on an upward trajectory. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

I think RMA's point is that right now, gold can be traded in any country in the world for currency which can be used to purchase goods and services (of course to varying values). If there was an apocalypse, the first 10 years might be all about trading food for shelter for weapons, but most likely gold would become a de facto fiat currency again. AND at some point there would be a NEW Paper currency, which again people could likely trade gold for. VERY unlikely that someone could trade their old USD for the New USD.

 

How important that is to any given person? Who knows. But I don't think its unreasonable to think that way.

 

And for those touting credit cards, you can't get even get the best Chinese food in Los Angeles, NYC, or Hong Kong with your visa. But if you bring some gold I bet you get fed.

 

....... I keep a 1929 two dollar and fifty cent piece in my pocket to help me keep perspective. By weight it's maybe $ 150 right now.....but I can't get a Big Gulp and a Quarter Pound Big Bite at the 7-11 with it. Sometimes I'll look at it and wonder if it might have been in someone's pocket who jumped out of a skyscraper in 1929...... it always reminds me to focus on the Priceless Intangibles. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S You made me want some Shrimp Fu Yung and three Egg Rolls

[RockMyAmadeus]

If it was the dollar fluctuating, you would see dramatic changes over that time period in the dollar's ability to purchase other goods.

 

Gold has dropped about 30% in two years. Are other things you buy with dollars 30% cheaper than they were 2 years ago? Gas probably is, but that is about it. By almost any measure, there has been slight inflation over the last two years. People can argue whether it has been 2-6% total-- it all depends on what basket of goods you choose to measure. There is no way it was -30%

 

Likewise, when gold went from 300 to 1850, were other things that you purchase six times as expensive in that timeframe? Did your rent go from $500 to $3000 in 8 years? probably not.

 

The value of gold evens out over very long periods of time, but year to year it fluctuates like the stock market. That is a terrible quality in a currency.

 

Again, this is because of global manipulation of fiat currencies. It is not the gold that is fluctuating...it's the fiat currencies against it. The United States made gold currency for nearly 150 years, and it served its purpose admirably, with much stability, even in times of severe crisis (Civil War, for instance.) So, what changed...? Government control.

 

When gold went from $300 to $1850, what happened to the housing market in the same period...? People bought properties in the late 90's for $150,000, and by 2007, they were worth $750,000 in some cases. Was that real?

 

Gold is not an investment. Hoping to "make money in gold" is a pointless exercise.

 

It is a hedge. And just like my yard fence, it is mostly there for decoration, and doesn't serve much of a purpose most of the time. But when there's someone who decides he/she wants to look for easy targets, the fence is a silent reminder that there are probably easier targets, and in those very rare instances, I'm very grateful I have it.

 

Likewise, if there's a situation where the fiat currency loses most, or all, of its value...those with gold, or other precious metal, will not be without everything, while those who only have bits and bytes will have...nothing.

 

When the banks failed in 1932 and 1933...did those people "get their money"?

 

Why do we think it could never happen again? Hopefully, it doesn't. But if it does...will we be prepared, at least in some way?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Damn you Nixon for getting rid of the gold standard. You weren't a crook, but you were a .

 

Well...to be fair, that was FDR's fault....

 

Nixon just cut the last tie....

[21Pittsburgh58]

It's the last cut that mattered though.

[Hamlet]

Yes, and that highlights two different functions-- storing value and use as a currency. You don't want to hold more currency than you need for transactions than you might reasonably expect to make in a reasonable period of time, because it usually loses buying power over the long term. A good currency loses that value very slowly, but it still loses it.

 

You don't want to hold your whole net worth in dollars shoved under a mattress, but dollars or a credit card are the only thing McDonald's is going to give you a big mac for in the US.

 

What's interesting in using a credit card for currency is that you have a lot less risk with it than cash. I can have a credit card in my wallet for emergencies, and I don't have to worry about inflation or theft (as the bank takes all the risk). If I use it, I generally get a better price than cash due to cashback bonuses. It's almost the perfect currency, except that there are still a number of businesses that don't take it.

 

 

If there was an apocalypse, the first 10 years might be all about trading food for shelter for weapons, but most likely gold would become a de facto fiat currency again. AND at some point there would be a NEW Paper currency, which again people could likely trade gold for. VERY unlikely that someone could trade their old USD for the New USD.