I reeeeealy hope this is a joke....

[october]

Came across this on eBay. Let's see....I can spend $900 on this copy or I can get one at my LCS for $5 with one extra spine tic. OUT OF CONTROL. I really hope this bid/auction was a joke, but maybe I am giving people too much credit. This slabbed 9.9 10.0 modern junk going for 100x cover seriously makes me want to puke. The potential for damage to the hobby is astronomical, I just wish more people could see that.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32753&item=6501898119&rd=1

[Silver Surfer]

Just one bid? What was the starting point. Its only harful to the willing to pay that much. This is ridiculous.

[Reno McCoy]

What is it? I can't access ebay at work.

[Solar]

Daredevil 1/2 CGC 10.0 for $900

[Darthdiesel]

Let's see....I can spend $900 on this copy or I can get one at my LCS for $5 with one extra spine tic.

 

Not after your LCS sees this auction result Why the bad feelings? I don't think it hurts anyone. The seller is a good dealer that takes care of their buyers. I have bought and sold to the seller before without incident. So what $900 for a 10.0 - just because you or I wouldn't pay it doesn't mean we wouldn't be happy to be on the receiving end of it. I'm thinking "Kudos to that seller for finding a buyer at that price. I wish I had gotten my perfect copy graded by CGC and sold that book for that price instead of to some cheapskate joker who walked onto my LCS, who bought it for $5 and was still complaining about how high a price that was..."

 

Bottom line is: If you want that book at your LCS for $5 and you can get it, then go for it. I don't agree with how high some books are selling for in the Silver and Bronze Age but that is how the market behaves, we just roll with it...

[mitol]

Absolutely right Darth. In this situation, all the involved parties walk away happy. The buyer for getting the book in the grade that he wants and the seller for the profit. It's win-win for everyone.

[Norrin_Radd]

Absolutely right Darth. In this situation, all the involved parties walk away happy. The buyer for getting the book in the grade that he wants and the seller for the profit. It's win-win for everyone.

 

Until a fews years from now, when the buyer realizes that he was hopelessly naive to pay so much and can't sell it for anywhere near the amount he paid. Then he won't be viewing this as a winning purchase.

 

We've all been there. We've all overpaid for a 'hot' comic that turned ice cold while in our possession. This is another example of a dealer taking advantage of inexperienced buyers and the "ultra-HG CGC" mania.

 

I'm not saying it immoral, but we as experienced collectors should not condon the dealers actions by filing it under "good for him if he found a sucker willing to pay that much".

 

This kind of negative experience WILL turn off many new collectors who got caught up in the mania and got burned. Just as collectors have always been turned off of the hobby by bad experiences with dealers. Caveat emptor.

 

IMHO, anyway.

[hobbes]

Absolutely right Darth. In this situation, all the involved parties walk away happy. The buyer for getting the book in the grade that he wants and the seller for the profit. It's win-win for everyone.

 

Until a fews years from now, when the buyer realizes that he was hopelessly naive to pay so much and can't sell it for anywhere near the amount he paid. Then he won't be viewing this as a winning purchase.

 

We've all been there. We've all overpaid for a 'hot' comic that turned ice cold while in our possession. This is another example of a dealer taking advantage of inexperienced buyers and the "ultra-HG CGC" mania.

 

I'm not saying it immoral, but we as experienced collectors should not condon the dealers actions by filing it under "good for him if he found a sucker willing to pay that much".

 

This kind of negative experience WILL turn off many new collectors who got caught up in the mania and got burned. Just as collectors have always been turned off of the hobby by bad experiences with dealers. Caveat emptor.

 

IMHO, anyway.

 

I agree that the price is insane but I also believe it is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves. The dealer puts a comic out at a particular price and someone buys it. I don't believe the dealer is abusing anyone or taking advantage of anyone. Abuse would be lying about the product that is being sold or misleading the buyer in some way. In this case the product is obvious. If the buyer did not take the time to research the book and come to some sort of educated decision then the buyer deserves what he gets. This is all speculation of course. For all we know the buyer is independently wealthy and could care less about the money he/she is spending

 

Just my .02

[mitol]

Good points, but one question I have is what if the buyer has no intent to sell and is now completely enthused to add this book to his collection? I ask this question because I am exactly like that. For example, I too was determined to complete the Kevin Smith/Joe Quesada Daredevil run all in 9.8's and most likely overpaid for certain issues, but I didn't and still don't mind. I'm just glad to have them in my collection.

[Norrin_Radd]

Good points, but one question I have is what if the buyer has no intent to sell and is now completely enthused to add this book to his collection? I ask this question because I am exactly like that. For example, I too was determined to complete the Kevin Smith/Joe Quesada Daredevil run all in 9.8's and most likely overpaid for certain issues, but I didn't and still don't mind. I'm just glad to have them in my collection.

 

I hope you're right and the buyer doesn't care about the money. I hope he loves the comic he paid so dearly for.

 

But I have a feeling the buyer will have some remorse over paying $900 for a perfect $5 comic.

 

 

As for the dealer, I don't have a problem with dealers charging what the market will bear. I do have a problem with "gouging" (putting up insane prices hoping someone will be desperate enough to pay it).

 

In any other type of commerce, this would be considered gouging, for which there are now some laws in place. As consumer advocates often quote "there's never been a law against selling consumers 6 feet of rope" (with which to hang themselves).

 

Again, IMO.

[Darthdiesel]

IMO, you will always have that part of the market where they will pay whatever to get something right now. And you will ALWAYS have sellers that will cater to that market. what I've seen in the past is the talking down of these sellers by others who would have wished it was them selling this book and reaping this profit instead. I don't see this as the seller acting in any predatory fashion. He stated the truth in his description, wasn't implying anything. and the bottom line is...if this buyer can't afford to spend $900 then he had no business bidding.

 

Here is the converse of this auction. A seller puts up an AF 15 in FN and it is legit. It sells uncharacteristically low for some unknown reason, let say $50. Do we start bemoaning this result as the harbinger of the downfall of the hobby? Or do we recognize it for the anomaly that it is, congratulate the buyer on a sweet find and move on?

 

From the tone of most of the posts around here, there is not much sympathy for the seller who ends up selling a book for under market value, while there is enough venom for those who make a multiple of market value sale?

 

also, "gouging" usually applies to items that are considered necessities. Since when aer comic books necessities? I know that in the face of rising gas prices last summer, some stations around Northern VA were clearly 20 - 30 cents above those down the road a mile or two. To me, that is gouging. What this seller on ebay did is nothing like that. It's almost the same as the crackhead prices we see that come out after a free BIN listing fee day is announced on eBay.

[october]

I am not concerned with the buyer, who is obvioisly either a insufficiently_thoughtful_person or an extremely driven collector (I would place money on the former), or with the seller who did nothing wrong. If my post implied that I thought the seller was somehow a "gouger" or immoral for selling that, let me clear up my statement, that was not my intent at all. My initial post was simply this: over-inflated prices, modern high priced speculation and modern comic gimmicky "investment" opportunites are highly detrimental to the hobby. You can argue with my statement all you want, but I will stand by it. I have seen too much damage done to the hobby to think or say otherwise. I personally don't see the difference between mulitchrome polybagged covers bought by the case as "investments" or buying "gem mint" slabbed moderns for 300x raw market price. In both cases the buyer will, almost inevitably, get burned. I don't care if some dope gets taken and is left holding the bag, but when it happens often enough it generates some serious ill-will towards the hobby. I don't think any of us want to see the 90s replayed and I am not saying that will happen, but when you mix inflated values, specualtion, and phoney "investment" opportunites that appeal to people outside the hobby you are treading a dangerous line indeed.

[hobbes]

And at what point does the comsumer become responsible? When does the "poor person" who is getting burned because they spent money on GEM MINT POLYBAGGED CHROME COVERED junk going to be held accountable for buying the stuff? I don't care how this topic is dressed up. The simple fact is the buyer makes the decision as to whether or not they drop their money on the product being sold. If a buyer buys a diamond box of polybagged chrome comics then that is their decision. They, the buyer, are accountable for it.

[october]

Read my above post again, I DON'T CARE about the buyer. If they get burned, they get burned. My concern is not that they are left holding the bag on a bunch of [#@$%!!!], it is the ill-will that they generate as a result of their failed "investment". Speculator opportunites generate new money, which increases demand, which motivates comic companies to put out more (often inferior products) and sooner or later people realize the market is over saturated, these things become worthless and the hobby tanks. I don't give a [#@$%!!!] if someone gets burned buying something stupid and obviously overvalued, I do care if that purchase hurt the hobby as a whole. Manufactured collectibles are a bad thing for the hobby, not just for the unfortunate/uneducated/foolish buyer. There is a reason Marvel went bankrupt, maybe you should take some time and look at the parralells between then and today.

[Norrin_Radd]

Also, "gouging" usually applies to items that are considered necessities. Since when are comic books necessities?

 

They certainly feel like necessities when you're an "extremely driven collector".

 

 

As I said in my first post, I believe that the mania to buy ultra-highgrade comics at 300x cover price will result in many new collectors getting burned. This will turn them off of the hobby. Do we really want to do that? Auctions like this one are only precipitating a bad experience for the buyer down the road.

 

I only hope that as many collectors as possible have access to these boards and use them to educate themselves. I know I've learned a lot in just a few months time.

 

 

As far as consumers being accountable for their own actions, of course they are. But by that same logic, would you be ambivalent about inexperienced car buyers being charged 30% interest on car loans because they don't know any better?

[hobbes]

I DON'T CARE about the buyer

 

The buyer is the [#@$%!!!] problem! If the buyer doesn't buy the [#@$%!!!] that generates so much ill will then companies would not print the [#@$%!!!]! You want to worry about helping the hobby educate the buyer! The companies are going to publish [#@$%!!!] as long as people buy [#@$%!!!]! The companies are in it for the money and [#@$%!!!] that sells is what they are going to print!

[october]

The buyer is not the only one to blame. If companies would remember their past mistakes and not repeat them, there wouldn't be a problem. Making a short-sighted profit by taking advantage of the existing fanbase and stupid investors by putting out manufactured collectible [#@$%!!!] may make money for a year or two, but then what happens? People get fed up, comic shops close and companies go bankrupt. It is a lot easier for a few companies who have been in the comic business for decades to realize that variant covers and "gem mint" slabs are a losing proposition in the long run than it is to "educate the buyer" as you say. How the [#@$%!!!] do you educate people who have no interst in the hobby?

[hobbes]

There is a reason Marvel went bankrupt, maybe you should take some time and look at the parralells between then and today.

 

I don't need to look at the parallels - Marvel needs to look at the parallels.

 

The buyer is not the only one to blame. If companies would remember their past mistakes and not repeat them, there wouldn't be a problem. Making a short-sighted profit by taking advantage of the existing fanbase and stupid investors by putting out manufactured collectible [#@$%!!!] may make money for a year or two, but then what happens? People get fed up, comic shops close and companies go bankrupt. It is a lot easier for a few companies who have been in the comic business for decades to realize that variant covers and "gem mint" slabs are a losing proposition in the long run than it is to "educate the buyer" as you say.

 

 

Simple fact - companies are in business to make money and those companies will follow the money. They are going to focus on short term financial gain. Marvel is proving this right now with their 1st-issue-short run- scrap - kick off volume 2- first issue - short run- scrap- kick off volume 3 - first issue -on and on mentality of publishing. They've got investors and stockholders to make happy. What can I do? I can educate Marvel by not buying Marvel products. That is what I do.

 

How the [#@$%!!!] do you educate people who have no interst in the hobby?

 

 

As far as Specs go. Specs do not care about the hobby - they care about money. Stressing about specs and the damage they do is a waste of energy.

 

The core of the hobby survived the crash of the 90's. Some survived by jumping ship and coming back after the storm was over. Do I worry about comic shops and the future of this medium? Yes. I would not seek out monthly comics to read and enjoy if I did not care about this medium. Can I do anything about the craziness of the hobby? Some things I can and some things I cannot.

 

The original point of all this was that I do not hold a grudge against the seller of the book. He listed it at a price and someone bit. Good for the seller. I hope the buyer is happy with his book and does not regret it. I hope the buyer had the good sense to research his $900 purchase.

[Mephisto]

Absolutely right Darth. In this situation, all the involved parties walk away happy. The buyer for getting the book in the grade that he wants and the seller for the profit. It's win-win for everyone.

 

Until a fews years from now, when the buyer realizes that he was hopelessly naive to pay so much and can't sell it for anywhere near the amount he paid. Then he won't be viewing this as a winning purchase.

 

 

 

 

Or until the book arrives with slab damage.

[THE_BEYONDER]

We've all been there. We've all overpaid for a 'hot' comic that turned ice cold while in our possession.

 

I haven't.

 

Of course....the jury is still out on this ' hot ' book that I BINned during it's peak for $750