Wizard World Pittsburgh- September 11-13, 2015

[RCheli]

Yeah, but with Austin, if you're close enough to not need to a place Thursday night, you can save good money.

 

Look... Wizard knows what they're doing, I guess. And for the most part, they make their money with people coming through the doors. That's why it's surprising to me when their table rates are so high.

[mysterio]

Yeah, but with Austin, if you're close enough to not need to a place Thursday night, you can save good money.

 

Look... Wizard knows what they're doing, I guess. And for the most part, they make their money with people coming through the doors. That's why it's surprising to me when their table rates are so high.

 

Yeah, but with Austin you've also got a smaller metro area and a high proportion of college kids that won't have large budgets either.

 

Any way you look at it, they'd get a lot more local/smaller dealers signing up to do their shows with a $500-600 table fee for a three day show, or at the very least tiered their pricing for the size of the metro area. Des Moines shouldn't have the same table cost as other larger or more developed markets. It certainly shouldn't cost more per day than Chicago like it currently does.

[1Cool]

I didn't drive over for this one since I've had a couple bad buying Cons in Pittsburgh. I instead watched the Clowns lose again which was marginally more fun. There must have been 5 dealers jumping on saying Chicago was the best Con in ages so I'm assuming Pittsburgh was a bad Con for dealers and buyers alike.

[spideysenses78]

Went Saturday and Sunday. Got signatures from some artists and writers. Met with some of the celebs as well. I only saw a few comic dealers. The rest sold toys, shirts, art prints, and sets and crafts stuff. Not really worth the trip into the city in my opinion. If it's there again next year, I will not be going.

[amuro1-migration]

Yeah, but with Austin, if you're close enough to not need to a place Thursday night, you can save good money.

 

Look... Wizard knows what they're doing, I guess. And for the most part, they make their money with people coming through the doors. That's why it's surprising to me when their table rates are so high.

 

 

Actually, recent financial reports suggest Wizard does NOT know exactly what they're doing:

Newsarama Wizard Financial

[mysterio]

Yeah, but with Austin, if you're close enough to not need to a place Thursday night, you can save good money.

 

Look... Wizard knows what they're doing, I guess. And for the most part, they make their money with people coming through the doors. That's why it's surprising to me when their table rates are so high.

 

 

Actually, recent financial reports suggest Wizard does NOT know exactly what they're doing:

Newsarama Wizard Financial

 

That's likely due to the fact that they've spent a ton buying up shows and had lackluster sales in those markets their first time out. They had a nice profit in the same quarter the prior year. If they'd quit expanding into C and D level markets and focus on putting on maybe 15-17 really solid shows in the markets that have worked for them they'd be just fine. Dropping or tiering their vendor fees would be a big step in the right direction too. That's the #1 thing keeping a better selection of comic dealers from attending, I'd bet.

[Doktor]

A smaller show in a smaller market with a smaller attendance should not cost the same amount for admission or table fees or whatever that a show like Chicago or Philly costs. Simple case of understanding their market. Double the admission fees from 1 year to the next, add a lot of extra fees that didn't exist at the previous iteration, and it's a recipe for lower attendance. And dealers looking at that recipe, factoring in that their costs have now doubled just in table rates & needing to pay for parking (as opposed to the free parking at the previous venue) and pretty much all of the fringe dealers will say "I'll pass" when they otherwise might have gone.

 

If it's any consolation though, the change did mean that I didn't have to deal with ComicSupply/Russ being one of the bigger vendors at the show like I do at Steel City Con or at the old PCC.

[Doktor]

Yeah, but with Austin, if you're close enough to not need to a place Thursday night, you can save good money.

 

Look... Wizard knows what they're doing, I guess. And for the most part, they make their money with people coming through the doors. That's why it's surprising to me when their table rates are so high.

 

 

Actually, recent financial reports suggest Wizard does NOT know exactly what they're doing:

Newsarama Wizard Financial

 

That's likely due to the fact that they've spent a ton buying up shows and had lackluster sales in those markets their first time out. They had a nice profit in the same quarter the prior year. If they'd quit expanding into C and D level markets and focus on putting on maybe 15-17 really solid shows in the markets that have worked for them they'd be just fine. Dropping or tiering their vendor fees would be a big step in the right direction too. That's the #1 thing keeping a better selection of comic dealers from attending, I'd bet.

 

Their average revenue per show also dropped significantly by adding the smaller shows/taking over smaller shows. The article mentions the big thing of $1.8M revenue per show in 2014 vs $1.1M in revenue per show in 2015. That can only be attributed to either a shrinking attendance or to adding a number of smaller shows that drag down the average. Though it could also have been compounded with drops in attendance at some of their other shows too, but you'd have to look at more than just an average to figure that out.

[Dale Roberts]

I didn't drive over for this one since I've had a couple bad buying Cons in Pittsburgh. I instead watched the Clowns lose again which was marginally more fun. There must have been 5 dealers jumping on saying Chicago was the best Con in ages so I'm assuming Pittsburgh was a bad Con for dealers and buyers alike.

 

It was not bad for me. Wasn't great. I made my minimum number which made it worthwhile.

\

[Dale Roberts]

Maybe not doubling table rates from the previous iterations of whichever convention they take over. Or doubling admission in 1 year. Or generally trying to use a 1-size-fits-all-shows pricing model for their conventions regardless of the city.

 

And in the meantime, maybe they should consider cutting table rates, cutting back on the C-list guests, offering some incentive to primarily-comic retailers like a rebate or something

 

I've got a whole rant I could go on about knowing their markets, but that's a whole different topic (that's semi-related)

 

From what I was told, they have been discussing this very thing/things.

 

Based upon the city, size of the venue and prospective market, it only makes sense. You simply can't charge as much for a show in Pittsburgh, as you could for a show in Chicago, LA, or Orlando.

 

Its a vicious cycle, caused by over-charging on both ends. High admission means that while some people will come to the show, many won't take the risk that they won't find what they are looking for. High dealer booths results in fewer dealers, which in turn makes it less likely that the customer who comes in the door will find the items they are looking for. Those people who didn't find much of what they are looking for, are likely not going to come back. When they don't come back, the existing dealers are not going to make money and are less likely to come back.

 

One of the big problems is the big headliner guest. These guys cost a lot of money and work on guarantees (Shatner and Duchovny) in this case. Wizard has to shell out a lot to get them.

 

I think they should drop these guys and just focus more on comic guests(who are generally considerably cheaper). Shatner does nothing for me. Neither does Duckovny. In this case, didn't do much for Wizard either as I don't think either hit their guarantees.

 

Better and more dealers will result in more attendees. Better and more creators will result in more attendees. Better and more attendees results in more money in the dealers pockets, more product taken home by the attendees, and more money in Wizard's pocket.

 

[Doktor]

Maybe not doubling table rates from the previous iterations of whichever convention they take over. Or doubling admission in 1 year. Or generally trying to use a 1-size-fits-all-shows pricing model for their conventions regardless of the city.

 

And in the meantime, maybe they should consider cutting table rates, cutting back on the C-list guests, offering some incentive to primarily-comic retailers like a rebate or something

 

I've got a whole rant I could go on about knowing their markets, but that's a whole different topic (that's semi-related)

 

From what I was told, they have been discussing this very thing/things.

 

Based upon the city, size of the venue and prospective market, it only makes sense. You simply can't charge as much for a show in Pittsburgh, as you could for a show in Chicago, LA, or Orlando.

 

Its a vicious cycle, caused by over-charging on both ends. High admission means that while some people will come to the show, many won't take the risk that they won't find what they are looking for. High dealer booths results in fewer dealers, which in turn makes it less likely that the customer who comes in the door will find the items they are looking for. Those people who didn't find much of what they are looking for, are likely not going to come back. When they don't come back, the existing dealers are not going to make money and are less likely to come back.

 

One of the big problems is the big headliner guest. These guys cost a lot of money and work on guarantees (Shatner and Duchovny) in this case. Wizard has to shell out a lot to get them.

 

I think they should drop these guys and just focus more on comic guests(who are generally considerably cheaper). Shatner does nothing for me. Neither does Duckovny. In this case, didn't do much for Wizard either as I don't think either hit their guarantees.

 

Better and more dealers will result in more attendees. Better and more creators will result in more attendees. Better and more attendees results in more money in the dealers pockets, more product taken home by the attendees, and more money in Wizard's pocket.

 

Exactly. I know they're going to look at cutting back on the "A" list talent (relatively speaking, at least A-list in geek standards) will cut into their attendance for those that come specifically for the guests & sigs & photo ops. It's why I suggested cutting down on the C-listers.

 

I mean, how many people really care about seeing the Green Ranger? Dude's at every con known to man. They could have seen him at Steel City Con for 1/2 the ticket price like 3 weeks ago. And if they do that, they can plug that money not spent back into the convention by cutting down the admission price & table rates a couple bucks for each C-lister they knock off their bill. All of a sudden, ticket prices & tables are a little more reasonable & closer to the old prices & can attract both more dealers & more attendees. Those C-listers aren't selling tickets but are a feature, but the A-list nerd fare will sell at least some tickets.

 

I just don't understand Wizard's logic with their pricing model. A 4th grader could understand how it can't work unless all of your market sizes & socio-economic demographics are comparable. But Pittsburgh or Mobile or Louisville aren't LA, Chicago & Philly by any stretch when you look at both of those factors. Price according to those factors & you can grow over time by just putting on a better product than what you took over for. Ignore those factors, price everything with a 1-size-fits-all model & lose money quickly while shrinking your show every year until it's gone.

[RCheli]

The thing is, they don't have guarantees or pay for a lot of the C listers. They pay for Stan Lee. They pay for Patrick Stewart.

 

They don't pay for Virgil.

[Dale Roberts]

Maybe not doubling table rates from the previous iterations of whichever convention they take over. Or doubling admission in 1 year. Or generally trying to use a 1-size-fits-all-shows pricing model for their conventions regardless of the city.

 

And in the meantime, maybe they should consider cutting table rates, cutting back on the C-list guests, offering some incentive to primarily-comic retailers like a rebate or something

 

I've got a whole rant I could go on about knowing their markets, but that's a whole different topic (that's semi-related)

 

From what I was told, they have been discussing this very thing/things.

 

Based upon the city, size of the venue and prospective market, it only makes sense. You simply can't charge as much for a show in Pittsburgh, as you could for a show in Chicago, LA, or Orlando.

 

Its a vicious cycle, caused by over-charging on both ends. High admission means that while some people will come to the show, many won't take the risk that they won't find what they are looking for. High dealer booths results in fewer dealers, which in turn makes it less likely that the customer who comes in the door will find the items they are looking for. Those people who didn't find much of what they are looking for, are likely not going to come back. When they don't come back, the existing dealers are not going to make money and are less likely to come back.

 

One of the big problems is the big headliner guest. These guys cost a lot of money and work on guarantees (Shatner and Duchovny) in this case. Wizard has to shell out a lot to get them.

 

I think they should drop these guys and just focus more on comic guests(who are generally considerably cheaper). Shatner does nothing for me. Neither does Duckovny. In this case, didn't do much for Wizard either as I don't think either hit their guarantees.

 

Better and more dealers will result in more attendees. Better and more creators will result in more attendees. Better and more attendees results in more money in the dealers pockets, more product taken home by the attendees, and more money in Wizard's pocket.

 

Exactly. I know they're going to look at cutting back on the "A" list talent (relatively speaking, at least A-list in geek standards) will cut into their attendance for those that come specifically for the guests & sigs & photo ops. It's why I suggested cutting down on the C-listers.

 

I mean, how many people really care about seeing the Green Ranger? Dude's at every con known to man. They could have seen him at Steel City Con for 1/2 the ticket price like 3 weeks ago. And if they do that, they can plug that money not spent back into the convention by cutting down the admission price & table rates a couple bucks for each C-lister they knock off their bill. All of a sudden, ticket prices & tables are a little more reasonable & closer to the old prices & can attract both more dealers & more attendees. Those C-listers aren't selling tickets but are a feature, but the A-list nerd fare will sell at least some tickets.

 

I just don't understand Wizard's logic with their pricing model. A 4th grader could understand how it can't work unless all of your market sizes & socio-economic demographics are comparable. But Pittsburgh or Mobile or Louisville aren't LA, Chicago & Philly by any stretch when you look at both of those factors. Price according to those factors & you can grow over time by just putting on a better product than what you took over for. Ignore those factors, price everything with a 1-size-fits-all model & lose money quickly while shrinking your show every year until it's gone.

 

In all fairness, most of the Wizard shows I have been to, lack of attendance isn't the main problem. Its lack of comic book customers. There are always plenty of people in attendance. Its just a lot of them don't have any intention of spending more than a few dollars on impulse buys.

 

I equate them to the people that went to the malls in the 80s and 90s. Its a way to get some cheap entertainment, hang out with friends, and all for a fairly minimum cost.

[Dale Roberts]

The thing is, they don't have guarantees or pay for a lot of the C listers. They pay for Stan Lee. They pay for Patrick Stewart.

 

They don't pay for Virgil.

 

Right