Brittle Pages

[gino2paulus2]

According to this chart from the BIP Comics website - a 6.5 was assigned to a book with SB (Casper #62) and a Planet #43 got a 5.0 with Brittle. You can go to the link and click on the grade to see the scan. Below are the two referenced as well.

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/CGCWhiteness/

 

 

 

interesting stuff Jeff thanks for pulling that up...pretty neat chart

[rjpb]

Does anyone else find the word "tan" anywhere in the page quality on a 9.8 at least as disturbing as brittle pages on a 5.0?

[jimjum12]

The Tan to Cream is the worst in my opinion. Light Tan could just be Off White from some of the books I've deslabbed. I hear they've gotten better at PQ.....and I honestly haven't removed any new slabs lately. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[rjpb]

The Tan to Cream is the worst in my opinion. Light Tan could just be Off White from some of the books I've deslabbed. I hear they've gotten better at PQ.....and I honestly haven't removed any new slabs lately. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

On both books I've deslabbed, and books I've sent in, I've found CGC's PQ labeling to be fairly inconsistent. I've cracked open one "Light tan to Off-white" book, it was years ago ( old label), and did find that to be accurate, with a half inch or so of tanning around the edge, with the rest of the page off-white, but I've also seen books I would consider having tanning at the edges get the cream designation, and pages I would consider cream to end up ow/w. I can't recall anything I thought CGC was overly harsh on, but my comparisons of raw vs. slabbed are fairly limited, so it's interesting to read that they sometimes go that direction as well.

 

I love truly ow/w and white pages on old books, but at the price point and conditions I buy at, have learned to live with tanning edges when they show up on raw books.

[jimjum12]

I've seen old labels with OW that are actually closer to white....... and I've had "white" end up being closer to cream..... but in their defense, I have as long as I want to make my inspection.... where they probably have a graded per day quota...... and on Monday with hangovers and Friday with an eye out the window..... GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[howlingdog]

I have no love for brittle,the flaking is depressing, the flaking happens in the grading process as well.I can live with trimmed and how come if a painting is restored the value is doubled but a comic book value is halved or more?

[Robot Man]

Beats trimmed in my opinion

I'd actually rather have a trimmed book with nice paper than a brittle book that was perfect in every other way.

 

.....me three...... especially if the trim is a good one..... all day, every day. That being said, I'd still prefer the Church copy. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

There are some trimmed Church copies. Is there a Church copy with brittle pages? I don't recall ever seeing one in a slab, although I suppose a book that was stored improperly by one of Chuck's early buyers could easily be brittle after all these years.

 

 

I had heard that Burrell Rowe, an early buyer of the Church books became very disenchanted with the hobby in general and boxed up many of his remaining copies in a less than ideal environment where they picked up some tanning..... unsure of details..... so just hearsay at this point. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Yeah, I heard that too. I believe they were Fiction House books that were thrown in cardboard boxes and dumped in his hot Texas garage. Wonder what happened to them? Bedrock would probably know...

[porcupine48]

I've owned a few slightly brittle books, but I've never purchased a brittle book.

Just purchased recently a few wartime Canadian Whites brittle to slightly brittle..mostly coverless too...but in this case I gladly took what I could get.

[fifties]

5.0 and 6.5 with brittleness? What a joke.

 

All this does is to diminish CGC's credibility as competent graders, OR display their attempt to develop their own grading standards, which obviously run counter to what's been accepted for quite some time now.

[SkyJuice]

In another few decades, most of the goldies will have brittle pages unless you have some way of curing that or place in the Himalayas highlands, which most of us dont. In this aspect, I have no doubt that the value may just rise in the future considering this.

 

Hence, it may be a wise investment made on the brittle pages in slabs since its quite cheap at this time. The question is whether will you be around to witness that. Or your great grand kids may thank you for collecting this.

[Flex Mentallo]

The only brittle pages book I've ever knowingly bought. Had to grit my teeth hard, knowing the book is as tough as they come (at least in this title), and most extant copies seem to be brittle anyway.

 

[fifties]

Well, I just "ask(ed) CGC" about this business of assigning higher grades to what the OSPG restricts to below 2.0 for brittleness.

 

They will either,

 

A. Ignore the question

 

B. Throw me off the board

 

C. Justify, or attempt to, how they get away with side-stepping what's considered the standard.

 

If I'm still around, I'll post the response, or lack thereof.

[Bomber-Bob]

Well, I just "ask(ed) CGC" about this business of assigning higher grades to what the OSPG restricts to below 2.0 for brittleness.

 

They will either,

 

A. Ignore the question

 

B. Throw me off the board

 

C. Justify, or attempt to, how they get away with side-stepping what's considered the standard.

 

If I'm still around, I'll post the response, or lack thereof.

 

I think this is a legitimate question, you should be safe. I asked a similar question about rusty staples but did not get a response. I think questions like this are difficult for them to answer = they don't have a hard and fast set of rules. You are looking for a definitive, specific grade threshold for Brittle pages. Best answer you are gonna get is 'it depends on the condition of the rest of the book'.

[jimbo_707]

I wouldn't buy a brittle book or even a slightly brittle book unless I were buying it for the (non-brittle) cover. Comics don't last forever. A brittle book belongs in the recycling bin.

[fifties]

You are looking for a definitive, specific grade threshold for Brittle pages. Best answer you are gonna get is 'it depends on the condition of the rest of the book'.

Well not really, because that already exists, as assigned by Overstreet. My question is asking how they justify going around it.

 

And the condition of the rest of the book, AFA grading, is really secondary to any major problem to begin with.

Heavy cover wear keeps a book out of the Fine category, as an example, and any relatively lesser damage simply compounds the downside.

[rjpb]

You are looking for a definitive, specific grade threshold for Brittle pages. Best answer you are gonna get is 'it depends on the condition of the rest of the book'.

Well not really, because that already exists, as assigned by Overstreet. My question is asking how they justify going around it.

 

Overstreet's grading criteria has evolved over the years, and while the OSPG grading definitions are probably where most of us started, it is not the last word on grading, nor is CGC for that matter. It seems the collecting community has always taken Overstreet's "highest grade allowed" proclamations as general guidelines more than gospel.

 

But I would agree that brittle pages are hard to imagine beyond the low grades.

[jimbo_707]

Overstreet's grading criteria has evolved over the years, and while the OSPG grading definitions are probably where most of us started, it is not the last word on grading, nor is CGC for that matter. It seems the collecting community has always taken Overstreet's "highest grade allowed" proclamations as general guidelines more than gospel.

 

But I would agree that brittle pages are hard to imagine beyond the low grades.

I barely remember the vague descriptions in the price guide, but I try to follow the much more detailed descriptions in the '92 Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide when selling books raw or when evaluating books to buy. One pet peeve of mine is that CGC doesn't factor page quality into the grade as much as they should. (I recall seeing a 6.0 book with "SLIGHTLY BRITTLE" pages a while back.)

[Filter81]

IMO it varies on a case by case basis. I've seen graded books go from CR/OW to Brittle and vice versa on a resub. I don't always pay as much attention to PQ as some people do. In my opinion, there's a huge difference between a book that is brittle in one corner but otherwise supple vs a book that is falling apart in your hands when you try to read it. (They all say Brittle on the label but there can be a HUGE difference between one "brittle" book and another.)

 

I generally try to avoid Brittle pages (and if I do buy will usually try to buy at a substantial discount) but will sometimes make exceptions, particularly if a book is really difficult to find or if I happen to know that a particular book is only brittle in one spot. Usually my line in the sand that I won't cross is if the book is falling apart in the holder I won't buy it no matter what. In RARE cases I've actually paid a premium for a brittle paged book.

 

I currently own two Action 7 CGC 1.0s, one with brittle pages and one CR/OW. The Brittle page copy I owned raw and is only brittle in one small corner. But it looks like a 2.5/3.0 otherwise. If I could only keep one of the two, I'd keep the brittle copy for myself because it is visually much nicer.

 

IMO all Brittle books are not the same. Sometimes it bothers me enough that I won't buy a book at any price, sometimes it doesn't bother me much at all. Definitely do your homework first though when possible..

 

(The Planet 15 posted above is an example of a brittle book I'd buy and not think twice about. Not only is that book really scarce to begin with, thanks to the PQ you're getting a high grade looking book for a 3.0 price)

 

 

[gino2paulus2]

IMO it varies on a case by case basis. I've seen graded books go from CR/OW to Brittle and vice versa on a resub. I don't always pay as much attention to PQ as some people do. In my opinion, there's a huge difference between a book that is brittle in one corner but otherwise supple vs a book that is falling apart in your hands when you try to read it. (They all say Brittle on the label but there can be a HUGE difference between one "brittle" book and another.)

 

I generally try to avoid Brittle pages (and if I do buy will usually try to buy at a substantial discount) but will sometimes make exceptions, particularly if a book is really difficult to find or if I happen to know that a particular book is only brittle in one spot. Usually my line in the sand that I won't cross is if the book is falling apart in the holder I won't buy it no matter what. In RARE cases I've actually paid a premium for a brittle paged book.

 

I currently own two Action 7 CGC 1.0s, one with brittle pages and one CR/OW. The Brittle page copy I owned raw and is only brittle in one small corner. But it looks like a 2.5/3.0 otherwise. If I could only keep one of the two, I'd keep the brittle copy for myself because it is visually much nicer.

 

IMO all Brittle books are not the same. Sometimes it bothers me enough that I won't buy a book at any price, sometimes it doesn't bother me much at all. Definitely do your homework first though when possible..

 

(The Planet 15 posted above is an example of a brittle book I'd buy and not think twice about. Not only is that book really scarce to begin with, thanks to the PQ you're getting a high grade looking book for a 3.0 price)

 

 

 

well stated post here!!

[BOOT]

How off putting is brittle pages to you?

The life of a comic book has a curve from printing to deterioration, determined by materials, handling, and storage conditions. A comic with brittle pages is very near the end of that curve of life.

 

Page quality is king. If you collect for the long game, get the best page quality you can. What will look better in 20 years, a VG reader with white pages ( ) or a file copy with tan/brittle pages?