You make the call.......

[youmechooz]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

When I buy books, and I've bought a few over the years, I always thought the shipping charges included the cost of insurance. The insurance wasn't usually broken out, but I knew I was paying for it. I guess I've been buying from con artists all these years, at least according to some folks.

Im guessing since you said you assumed it was included that they did not ask you to pay for their insurance.

[Ghost Town]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

When I buy books, and I've bought a few over the years, I always thought the shipping charges included the cost of insurance. The insurance wasn't usually broken out, but I knew I was paying for it. I guess I've been buying from con artists all these years, at least according to some folks.

Im guessing since you said you assumed it was included that they did not ask you to pay for their insurance.

Sellers don't usually break it out in shipping quotes. But when I receive packages and look at the postage paid, I can see that more often than not, I've paid for the insurance.

[manetteska]

Most of these conversations are revolving around the mail carrier damaging an item and/or improper packaging. What happens in the case of an item being received by the mail carrier and then becoming "lost".

 

Definitely not the buyer's fault; hardly the seller's fault; and now the seller doesn't even have the opportunity to re-sell the item.

[wombat]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

 

Shouldn't it be baked in to the price you charge? Isn't that how all expenses of a seller get covered?

[PIR8]

I've always assumed its my responsibility as a seller to ensure they receive their item in the condition described. I box 99% of what I ship, but in the rare instances there was a problem with damage, or a lost package, I just took that hit. I always think its ridiculous when a seller just tells a buyer to file a claim with the P.O. when something like that pops up. If a buyer pays for something, and doesn't receive it, the seller is the one that needs to handle the why and how, the buyer should be refunded, or re shipped a duplicate item.

 

That's just my and I do much more selling than buying.

[youmechooz]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

When I buy books, and I've bought a few over the years, I always thought the shipping charges included the cost of insurance. The insurance wasn't usually broken out, but I knew I was paying for it. I guess I've been buying from con artists all these years, at least according to some folks.

Im guessing since you said you assumed it was included that they did not ask you to pay for their insurance.

Sellers don't usually break it out in shipping quotes. But when I receive packages and look at the postage paid, I can see that more often than not, I've paid for the insurance.

But insurance is not for you. Its for the seller. If something goes wrong, you, as the buyer, cant claim anything, only the seller can.

[Ghost Town]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

When I buy books, and I've bought a few over the years, I always thought the shipping charges included the cost of insurance. The insurance wasn't usually broken out, but I knew I was paying for it. I guess I've been buying from con artists all these years, at least according to some folks.

Im guessing since you said you assumed it was included that they did not ask you to pay for their insurance.

Sellers don't usually break it out in shipping quotes. But when I receive packages and look at the postage paid, I can see that more often than not, I've paid for the insurance.

But insurance is not for you. Its for the seller. If something goes wrong, you, as the buyer, cant claim anything, only the seller can.

I know it's the seller's responsibility to make the claim if something happens. I'm just saying more often than not, the buyer pays for insurance as part of the shipping cost, even if it's not specifically broken out in the shipping quote. Paying for the insurance and dealing with a claim are two different things. You believe they're both the seller's responsibility. But in my experience, buyers usually pay for the insurance, and if something happens, the seller deals with making the claim.

[shadroch]

The seller obtains the insurance because he is the one delivering the package to the PO, or paying for the package when it is picked up.

I'm having a classic car delivered from Arizona to NY as soon as the weather clears. The seller is helping me by arraigning delivery. I could just imagine what he'd say if I told him he was responsible for the car arriving into my garage in the same condition I bought it in.

[Psithyrus]

The post office person saying that DO NOT BEND should have been written on the box is full of it. Postal employees do not look at that stuff and they need not heed the directions. If the shipper wanted it not to be bent, they should have not sent it in an envelope.

 

As Newman once told Jerry Seinfeld, "Just crease, crumple, cram."

 

Writing instructions not to bend or fold doesn't stop them. I had it happen here at my apartment, and the postal worker had apparently just finished delivering stuff, because they were in the office talking to the manager.

 

I open the mailbox, and there was a package, folded up in there, with instructions not to bend it huge letters.

 

I removed it and walked into the office, holding it in the U-shape it was now stuck in, and asked, "Why would you bend this like this when it clearly says not to do that?"

 

She just said that she needed to deliver it.

[budsbundy]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd sure enough.

 

 

See, good seller - packaged well with bubble wrap in a box and STILL USPS decided to take a dump on it. It's embarrassing for them. I'll file an insurance claim and have it taken care of. But if the seller had shipped this out in an envelope, this should be on them.

 

Often times, that damage can be minimized with double boxing. A 1092 in a 1095 helps avoiding crushing. There's a few threads on that particular topic.

 

Oh, I know. I'm all about the double boxing. I didn't ship it - I'm the recipient. But the seller still did a good job with a decent amount of bubble wrap. USPS just decided to treat it with "extra care" despite Fragile written everywhere. Have you ever tried to complain to USPS or called their "Customer Relations" department. No one cares.

 

I'm dealing with this issue right now regarding some lost books. The carrier decided to fake the signature confirmation by taking a scan of his fingertips because he was too busy. He apologized and fully admitted this to his supervisor and to me. Tracking shows delivered and signed for, so PayPal will not take any action. I'm out ~$800. It's in the hands of the "consumer affairs" division of USPS, but I'm not expecting anything but a "Gee that sucks, sorry about that."

 

Some people here would have you go after the seller for this

And that would be the right thing to do.

I've been watching this thread and withheld my opinion till now.

I hate the PO, you have no idea how many fits I have thrown over them completely azzraping well packed books that were sent to me.

Still, it is the responsibility of the seller to get you your item in the condition you purchased it, so even if the seller packs it in a small safe, and USPS runs over it with a tank and crushes it, it's still falls on the seller IMO, they can take the crushed package back, and sort out a settlement with the post office.

Totally the po's fault, but it's still on the seller to make it right with the buyer, and then to try to make the PO make it right with them(seller).

 

[Jeffro.]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

 

Shouldn't it be baked in to the price you charge? Isn't that how all expenses of a seller get covered?

 

That's certainly one way to do it. Buyers apparently don't mind paying more when they don't know they are paying more

 

[youmechooz]

How did we go from the accepted practice of the buyer paying for insurance to the seller being responsible for it?

 

I think I need to quit my job and personally escort every package I mail out.

Or you can just insure it.

 

At my expense

When I buy books, and I've bought a few over the years, I always thought the shipping charges included the cost of insurance. The insurance wasn't usually broken out, but I knew I was paying for it. I guess I've been buying from con artists all these years, at least according to some folks.

Im guessing since you said you assumed it was included that they did not ask you to pay for their insurance.

Sellers don't usually break it out in shipping quotes. But when I receive packages and look at the postage paid, I can see that more often than not, I've paid for the insurance.

But insurance is not for you. Its for the seller. If something goes wrong, you, as the buyer, cant claim anything, only the seller can.

I know it's the seller's responsibility to make the claim if something happens. I'm just saying more often than not, the buyer pays for insurance as part of the shipping cost, even if it's not specifically broken out in the shipping quote. Paying for the insurance and dealing with a claim are two different things. You believe they're both the seller's responsibility. But in my experience, buyers usually pay for the insurance, and if something happens, the seller deals with making the claim.

You are correct. Paying for insurance and filing the insurance claim are different and I do believe they are both the sellers responsibility. Why would a seller make you pay for their insurance? As a buyer, your job is done once you pay for the item. The sellers job is to get it into your hands, not the mail carriers.

[youmechooz]

The seller obtains the insurance because he is the one delivering the package to the PO, or paying for the package when it is picked up.

I'm having a classic car delivered from Arizona to NY as soon as the weather clears. The seller is helping me by arraigning delivery. I could just imagine what he'd say if I told him he was responsible for the car arriving into my garage in the same condition I bought it in.

But he is. It sounds like you are the type of person that would drop a 10 year old nephew off at the park to meet his parents but they haven't shown up yet and if he went missing, its not on you. you did your job. You dropped him off. Hands washed clean.

[Ghost Town]

You are correct. Paying for insurance and filing the insurance claim are different and I do believe they are both the sellers responsibility.

That's your opinion and you're obviously entitled to it. But more often than not, buyers do pay for the insurance, even if it's not specifically broken out in the shipping cost.

[stippy52]

The seller obtains the insurance because he is the one delivering the package to the PO, or paying for the package when it is picked up.

I'm having a classic car delivered from Arizona to NY as soon as the weather clears. The seller is helping me by arraigning delivery. I could just imagine what he'd say if I told him he was responsible for the car arriving into my garage in the same condition I bought it in.

But he is. It sounds like you are the type of person that would drop a 10 year old nephew off at the park to meet his parents but they haven't shown up yet and if he went missing, its not on you. you did your job. You dropped him off. Hands washed clean.

 

That's pretty insulting

[InvstmntComcSuply]

The seller obtains the insurance because he is the one delivering the package to the PO, or paying for the package when it is picked up.

I'm having a classic car delivered from Arizona to NY as soon as the weather clears. The seller is helping me by arraigning delivery. I could just imagine what he'd say if I told him he was responsible for the car arriving into my garage in the same condition I bought it in.

 

This is why this thread is not yet dead. You may negotiate any terms you wish with your auto seller. Just because you may negotiate different terms with your auto purchase, does not mean that the terms of sale are the same with all transactions. You are purchasing the car FOB shipping point, thus, all risk of getting the car to you, is on you. Now is that a good idea? I don't know. What if he uses two teenagers to drive it across country, pulled by a chain between your classic car and a tow vehicle?

 

If you want him to be at risk, until you receive the car, you negotiate terms of FOB: destination, and all risk of getting it to you, in the condition purchased, is on the seller.

 

FOB destination terms are required for every Paypal and ebay transaction per their user agreements. It is no surprise that these terms are the same for countless other ecommerce transactions. Risk of loss is always on the seller until delivery. This is why I pointed out this risk to shadrock earlier, since it did not appear that he understood that it was his risk when using these platforms regardless of his instructions to his buyers.

 

There is nothing nefarious about it. It is not some form of "buyer entitlement". It is simply the blanket terms agreed to by both buyers and sellers, when using paypal, ebay and most other ecommerce transactions. It makes for a far more standardized business model when every seller on a platform uses the same terms. The reason for this policy was clearly to engender buyer confidence and thus encourage more sales (and more revenue for ebay/paypal).

[wombat]

Buyers pay for everything in the form of a purchase price. Now if all the expenses plus profit aren't covered in that amount the seller should probably rethink what they are doing. Its like shipping. There is no "free shipping" no matter how often you see that claimed. Its baked in to the purchase price.

[youmechooz]

The seller obtains the insurance because he is the one delivering the package to the PO, or paying for the package when it is picked up.

I'm having a classic car delivered from Arizona to NY as soon as the weather clears. The seller is helping me by arraigning delivery. I could just imagine what he'd say if I told him he was responsible for the car arriving into my garage in the same condition I bought it in.

But he is. It sounds like you are the type of person that would drop a 10 year old nephew off at the park to meet his parents but they haven't shown up yet and if he went missing, its not on you. you did your job. You dropped him off. Hands washed clean.

 

That's pretty insulting

Didn't mean to insult you.

[rjpb]

It was back in the 90s, but twice I had insured packages damaged by USPS before they got to my door, and as I was in possession of the damaged items, I was the one to file the claim. Both were for less than $100, and both were paid without any hassle.