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How "shadow" affects the grade of a book

Started by NTHstars,

29 posts in this topic

NTHstars

NTHstars

Posted
Posted

 

Hey, quick grading-type question.

 

I have a Silver Age X-men graded 9.2 in 2005.

 

Graders notes:

 

Full Left Back Cover Lite Shadow

Left Bottom Front Cover Lite Wear Breaks Color

Right Top Front Cover Shadow

 

On the shadow, are they grading that sort of thing the same way now? Like if I resubmitted would it be considered the same?

 

Thanks!

 

Neil

 

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Icculus308win

Icculus308win

Posted
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From my experience past and more so present "dust shadows," are graded pretty tough.

Congrats on a 9.2 imho. I've had some FC & Dells that were graded 9.4s, some were old label goodness, that I'm very pleased with their grade and would feel it a very big gamble to resub them.

2c

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paperheart

paperheart

Posted
Posted

Hey, quick grading-type question.

 

I have a Silver Age X-men graded 9.2 in 2005.

 

Graders notes:

 

Full Left Back Cover Lite Shadow

Left Bottom Front Cover Lite Wear Breaks Color

Right Top Front Cover Shadow

 

On the shadow, are they grading that sort of thing the same way now? Like if I resubmitted would it be considered the same?

 

Thanks!

 

Neil

 

put a scan up in the PGM section but this doesn't sound like a resub candidate unless you were hoping for a downgrade

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
From my experience past and more so present "dust shadows," are graded pretty tough.

 

I've seen CGC give many 9.6 grades to books with a 1/8" to 1/4" dust shadow, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to with their toughness. The fact that they gave the OP's book a 9.2 with two shadows suggests otherwise. They don't downgrade all that much for them or for minor soiling because they're both removable without causing damage.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
From my experience past and more so present "dust shadows," are graded pretty tough.

 

I've seen CGC give many 9.6 grades to books with a 1/8" to 1/4" dust shadow, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to with their toughness. The fact that they gave the OP's book a 9.2 with two shadows suggests otherwise. They don't downgrade all that much for them or for minor soiling because they're both removable without causing damage.

 

....so true. I've seen many GA books in HG that have them. The biggest impediment to an upgrade for the 9.2 XM that the OP inquired about would be the color breaking bottom edge wear..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

.... a scan of the actual book would help.....

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted

The thing to always keep in mind with the term "shadow" is that some people think it's a general term for any sort of time-related discoloration--and certainly just using the simple term "shadow" does imply that--but there's a monumental difference between a dust shadow that only affects one side of the paper and tanning that has caused damage throughout the paper. Tanning is permanent damage, but dust shadows that affect one side are removable. Both can look quite similar, but tanning is usually visible on both sides of the paper.

 

Going by the grader's notes, they explicitly note that the shadow only affects one side of the paper, so it sounds like a particle (dust) shadow. A scan would help, or at least a description of the extent of the shadow, i.e. which sides they're on and the width at each end if its irregular or width overall if its uniform.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
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Here's an example of at least one 9.6 I own with two very light dust shadows. One is on the top edge and the other is on the right edge and is particularly visible in the lower right. Neither affects the integrity of the paper and they're barely noticeable, and as such I agree with CGC's tendency to not downgrade much for them.

 

ff24.jpg

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

The grade is always going to depend on the severity of the defect: how big, how wide, how long, how deep, how dark, how many pages it affects.

 

Questions like this can't be answered without more detail and generally without the book in hand it's only a guess.

 

Your best bet is to post large clear pics of the defects (including inside of the page if the other side of the paper is affected) otherwise you may as well throw darts for a guess.

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NTHstars

NTHstars

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Ok, here is the book, front and back. Basically, I'm trying to determine if this book would still get at least a 9.2. My motivation is I am considering getting a signature on it, but if it has a likelihood of coming back less than a 9.2, I will rethink that.

 

Now some here have suggested shadow can be removed, so if that is reasonably cheap perhaps I could consider that. If I could get better than a 9.2 that would be a welcome surprise.

 

Anyway, thanks for the comments so far and here is the book, recently purchased on these boards.

 

dnludj.jpg

 

2vi37h5.jpg

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jimjum12

jimjum12

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A 9.2 can easily end up 9.0..... one tiny defect added during the removal is all it takes.... why I rarely deslab stuff in 9.0 or above.....unless It's a definite keeper that I want raw. That book can be had in HG in raw form.... I'd grab a sweet raw and have that signed..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
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That looks like tanning and it looks like a textbook CGC 9.2.

 

I don't think it will upgrade and I don't think it's removable.

 

The Off White page quality tells me that there is some darkening inside the book. Whether it will downgrade or not is hard to say because you can't see the inside of the book and you also don't know if the book has changed since it was first encapsulated.

 

I don't see it going up in grade.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Now some here have suggested shadow can be removed, so if that is reasonably cheap perhaps I could consider that. I

 

 

Dust shadows, like those on your book, can not be removed.

 

Dust shadows can sometimes be removed. I'm neither familiar with which can and can't be removed nor how to visually identify which can and can't be removed--have you seen or developed your own visual criteria for determining which are removable?

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Now some here have suggested shadow can be removed, so if that is reasonably cheap perhaps I could consider that. If I could get better than a 9.2 that would be a welcome surprise.

 

Send that scan to Matt Nelson, Tracey Heft, and/or Susan Cicconi and see what they say. My main warning is that the cost of the work is likely to exceed any value increase you'd see in that book. That book is worth about $200 to $250 in 9.2 and only about $100 more in 9.4; you'd likely spend at least $100 removing the shadow if it's removable at all. If I were you, I'd just look for another copy to get signed if the shadow bugs you.

 

Matt Nelson: http://www.ccsrestoration.com/

Tracey Heft: http://www.eclipsepaper.com/

Susan Cicconi: http://www.therestorationlab.com/

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Icculus308win

Icculus308win

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From my experience past and more so present "dust shadows," are graded pretty tough.

 

I've seen CGC give many 9.6 grades to books with a 1/8" to 1/4" dust shadow, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to with their toughness. The fact that they gave the OP's book a 9.2 with two shadows suggests otherwise. They don't downgrade all that much for them or for minor soiling because they're both removable without causing damage.

 

I'm going on when I've called about grader notes "back in the day" and was told that the "dust shadow(s)" was what was holding my book down. I've been told that more than once. These books were Purdy enough especially some of my Dell & FC books, that I was left scratching my head wondering why not a 9.4 or 9.6 even. Hence the phone calls.

 

I have slabbed many GA & SA books that have come back 9.0s-9.2s with shadows, getting 9.4 or above I find personally, where CGC is tougher on shadows. Again my 2c.

That 9.6 pictured is great looking book!!

 

Like Jimbo said, if you have a 9.2 SA with shadows in hand, Id be happy with it and keep it and not gamble on getting a grade bump. And I'm referring to shadows that canNOT be removed.

 

As for removable shadows or soiling, isn't a wad of Wonderbread the ticket?

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Like Jimbo said, if you have a 9.2 with shadows SA in hand, Id be happy with it and keep it and not gamble on getting a grade bump. And I'm referring to shadows that canNOT be removed.

 

How does one determine whether a shadow can be removed or not? Every few years we discuss this topic in these forums, but I have yet to hear from anyone who knows. (shrug)

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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The Wonderbread test?

 

If wonderbread can remove it, sure. But it may require something else, I don't really know. I bet conservators who know how to remove it have some way to eyeball it.

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