Japan's manga comics take on US superheroes

[Sal]

at least until word gets out that "Manga" and "comic book" are roughly equivalent. this differentiation is, imho, important

 

I think the word is out, unless using phrases like "Japanese comics" or "comic books" in articles like this isn't direct enough.

 

oh, i don't know...quotes in articles like these typically avoid the word "comic" in favour of "manga."

 

Just because I have to...

 

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man are confronting new rivals in the US comic book world, as young Americans are devouring Japan's "manga" comics depicting wandering samurais and cheeky Tokyo schoolchildren.

 

 

Linda Pfeiffer, 15, never got hooked on her brother's comic books, which glorify muscular heroes complete with superpowers. Instead, she is absorbed by Japanese comic book characters to whom she can relate, "even if they live far away from here."

 

i said quotes ...you know, the things usually found in quotation marks? generally accepted use is for verbatim relaying of things people say...

 

perhaps you misunderstood me. i believe i also stated that the author of the article uses the words "comics" to provide a frame of reference.

 

but thanks for trying anyway

[rob_react]

maybe they tried

spider-man, x-men etc. and like the manga more....

 

Not a surprise given the breadth of genre manga represents. Just superheroes vs. everything under the sun? Is it a wonder why manga is gaining ground? Especially with women/girls...

 

Comic books are trending in this direction, some. Vertigo pretty much represents the non-superhero end of it. Marvel seems to be attempting to gear towards girls with an occasional salvo of Mary Jane, which my 11 year old daughter enjoyed.

 

Emphasis on "some." Marvel and DC seem to be mostly content to do the superhero thing. There are niche "successes" where some non-superhero stuff makes it into the Top 100- Top strictly non superhero book in December? Conan at #33. After that? #74

Transformers Generation, Y at #82, and Fables at #85.

 

They don't put their weight behind anything the least bit different because, well, it will likely be greeted with hostility by the specialty market core. Think about it, they can't (or won't) even sustain offbeat SUPERHERO work...

[rob_react]

I wasn't calling you or LCS a liar, OG. The way you phrased your statement made it appear as if they didn't sell Manga that they would have to go out of business. That is what I was refering to in my post, which appears to have been misunderstood also by others.

 

I do not think Manga is a "fad" because it has been around for awhile. However its popularity in the United States is a trend. The popularity has grown for a few years and will likely dwindle down a few years from now.

 

Just like the popularity of anime has dwindled since it started to show up on these shores in the 60s. Any day now it'll just disappear.

 

Someone mentioned Manga has been around from Astro Boy, Transformers, Voltron etc. I may be wrong but these are not Manga, as we know it today, but rather considered Anime. Rob may know more on this since he follows this type of thing.

 

Anime = Japanese animation. Manga= Japanese comics. Transformers= A line of merchandise from an American company that is neither Manga or Anime.

 

For what it's worth, Manga and Anime are linked, one feeding the other, and many of the series that people know have been both. Astro Boy, for example, was both (manga first.)

 

Here in the states Anime came first by a wide margin. Manga has really only been readily available for 17-18 years.

[rob_react]

Just because I have to...

 

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man are confronting new rivals in the US comic book world, as young Americans are devouring Japan's "manga" comics depicting wandering samurais and cheeky Tokyo schoolchildren.

 

 

Linda Pfeiffer, 15, never got hooked on her brother's comic books, which glorify muscular heroes complete with superpowers. Instead, she is absorbed by Japanese comic book characters to whom she can relate, "even if they live far away from here."

 

i said quotes ...you know, the things usually found in quotation marks? generally accepted use is for verbatim relaying of things people say...

 

perhaps you misunderstood me. i believe i also stated that the author of the article uses the words "comics" to provide a frame of reference.

 

but thanks for trying anyway

 

I was goofing on the fact that you were treating manga=comics like secret knowledge when the quoted article was so full of "comic*", not taking you literally.

[OldGuy]

The way you phrased your statement made it appear as if they didn't sell Manga that they would have to go out of business.

 

If they lost 18% of their monthly sales the store would not be "profitable" according to the owner. She was prepared to not make any money in her first year. Her store didn't make money for the fist 14 months they were in business. It lost money every month. They have only seen a profit in the last four months. If not for the sales of Manga (or any of the other items they sell) she would have gone under.

 

I'm not saying that Manga is the only reason her doors are still open, but it is part of the equation that has kept her in business.

[deathlok]

I just know that growing up there was no Manga in my LCS at all. I have only recently noted an increase in Manga merchandise in the United States.

 

If Manga had been around for 17-18 years as you say, do you think it was as popular as it is today? I'm sure it has been around in some form or another.

 

I just don't see a long term level of popularity in it. I could be wrong I just don't see it. Much like collectible card games.

[deathlok]

The way you phrased your statement made it appear as if they didn't sell Manga that they would have to go out of business.

 

If they lost 18% of their monthly sales the store would not be "profitable" according to the owner. She was prepared to not make any money in her first year. Her store didn't make money for the fist 14 months they were in business. It lost money every month. They have only seen a profit in the last four months. If not for the sales of Manga (or any of the other items they sell) she would have gone under.

 

I'm not saying that Manga is the only reason her doors are still open, but it is part of the equation that has kept her in business.

 

It seems as if there are other factors at work than just relying on one part of their sales to stay in the black. I realize LCS do not make a huge profit margin in general, especially dependent on the area, but it just seems there is more to it than that.

[rob_react]

I just know that growing up there was no Manga in my LCS at all. I have only recently noted an increase in Manga merchandise in the United States.

 

Never saw Lone Wolf and Cub or Akira?

 

If Manga had been around for 17-18 years as you say, do you think it was as popular as it is today? I'm sure it has been around in some form or another.

 

"If?" What sort of "if" is involved here? LW&C, Akira, Mai the Psychic Girl, Appleseed, etc. etc. etc. all hit these shores in the late 80s.

 

As for popularity, it was never as popular as it is today. It's been steadily growing over that time.

 

I just don't see a long term level of popularity in it. I could be wrong I just don't see it. Much like collectible card games.

 

It's comics. People are reading comics that appeal to them. Genre that either aren't produced or aren't easy to find from American comics sources. So... they've discovered that reading comics can be fun when you take men in tights out of the equation. Why are they suddenly going to stop? Explain your reasoning to me. Anime has been full steam ahead for more than 40 years why would manga be any different?

[Jayman]

For what it's worth, Manga and Anime are linked, one feeding the other, and many of the series that people know have been both. Astro Boy, for example, was both (manga first.)

 

Tetsuwan Atom (AKA Astro Boy) Is a great read. I have the Dark Horse Digests reprinting all the original stories by Osamu Tezuka!

 

 

Father of Manga!

[Sal]

I was goofing on the fact that you were treating manga=comics like secret knowledge when the quoted article was so full of "comic*", not taking you literally.

 

here's my take on the whole thing;

 

manga and comics are equivalent, but not equal, in the minds of most collectors. yes, they are both methods of telling a story with static pictures (as opposed to a movie, which tells a story with dynamic pictures).

 

traditional manga eschews superheroes. stories center around the scientific, the supernatural (demons, ghosts and the like), historical tales of heroism and everyday tales of pubescent schoolgirls. this is not a complete list.

 

traditional comics (the american kind) concentrates on superheroes. while superheroes are not the full breadth and width of comic storytelling, it is the highest percentage both historical and current, at least since 1938.

 

manga sells to all walks of life in japan. it is, in my understanding, fairly common to see a salaryman reading manga on the trains in tokyo, or see a woman reading one in the food court of whatever passes for malls over there.

 

in the u.s., you'll see a cat walking around on its hind legs before you see a chick reading any X book in the mall. but they might read a manga.

 

because to them, "manga" does not equal "comics". it equals something else. comic books are geeky superhero male adolescent fantasy stuff.

 

you and I know that manga is just a japanese way of saying comic book, much like saying palmetto bug is just a polite way of saying cockroach.

 

once people realise that, in fact, they're reading comic books, japanese or otherwise, one of two things should happen: they'll either go 'ewwwww! now i've got nerd all over my hands' and flee for thier lives, or go 'eh? so what? i enjoy the thing' and keep on trucking. i just happen to think the former is much much more likely than the latter. maybe not as quickly and completely as deathlok's way of thinking, but something like that.

 

i'm definitely overanalysing the thing, though.

 

 

please note that i am not applying my own dislike for the medium in the argument. i dislike opera too, but i can appreciate quality work regardless

[rob_react]

I'm not going to go into the whole thing, since your thesis isn't really something I care to debate (yes, "Manga" is easier to market than "Japanese Comics" ), but...

traditional comics (the american kind) concentrates on superheroes. while superheroes are not the full breadth and width of comic storytelling, it is the highest percentage both historical and current, at least since 1938.

 

This is really only true post code (basically Silver Age on). Pre code there was a LOT more than superheroes published. Post WW2 a lot of superhero titles went bye bye.

[rob_react]

please note that i am not applying my own dislike for the medium in the argument.

 

You don't like comics?

[Sal]

please note that i am not applying my own dislike for the medium in the argument.

 

You don't like comics?

 

. d'oh!

 

yes i find them distasteful and corrupting. i'm working on a book called "Seduction of the Innocent II: The Revenge," and i'm really just trolling for information and opinions

[deathlok]

Never saw Lone Wolf and Cub or Akira?

 

"If?" What sort of "if" is involved here? LW&C, Akira, Mai the Psychic Girl, Appleseed, etc. etc. etc. all hit these shores in the late 80s.

 

As for popularity, it was never as popular as it is today. It's been steadily growing over that time.

 

It's comics. People are reading comics that appeal to them. Genre that either aren't produced or aren't easy to find from American comics sources. So... they've discovered that reading comics can be fun when you take men in tights out of the equation. Why are they suddenly going to stop? Explain your reasoning to me. Anime has been full steam ahead for more than 40 years why would manga be any different?

Growing up in the 70's and 80's if my LCS did carry Manga, then I never saw it. I usually saw every new comic that came out. That's not say it didn't exist, just that my LCS did not carry it. Nor did I see it at other LCS in my area.

 

I just don't see Manga retaining popularity because it appears to lack depth, IMO. I am not trying to say that because I don't read it, it won't last type of attitude.

 

Anime has evolved in order to retain viewership. Anime still has not taken a foothold as it does in Japan. Neither has Manga. Just because it exists does not mean that it will last at this level of popularity.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I just don't see Manga retaining popularity because it appears to lack depth, IMO.

 

Perhaps you should pick up a LW&C TPB and see if it doesn't change your opinion.

 

For my money, this was one of the finest comics (of any genre) in the 80s. Much like G.I.Joe # 21, many of the issues managed to tell a story through the artwork rather than dialogue. It was phenomenal stuff, regardless of what label people wanted to place on it.

[deathlok]

I just don't see Manga retaining popularity because it appears to lack depth, IMO.

 

Perhaps you should pick up a LW&C TPB and see if it doesn't change your opinion.

 

For my money, this was one of the finest comics (of any genre) in the 80s. Much like G.I.Joe # 21, many of the issues managed to tell a story through the artwork rather than dialogue. It was phenomenal stuff, regardless of what label people wanted to place on it.

 

I have one LW&C that someone gave to me to read. I didn't make through half of it before losing interest. Of course I felt the same way about Preacher, although I did like art and story, I just didn't find it interesting.

 

Look I don't enjoy reading a lot of titles/genres, but that doesn't mean I don't think they suck and will not get popular.

 

I think Manga and Anime will always be around, but I don't think it will be as popular as it is today. It will decline.

[rob_react]

 

Growing up in the 70's and 80's if my LCS did carry Manga, then I never saw it. I usually saw every new comic that came out. That's not say it didn't exist, just that my LCS did not carry it. Nor did I see it at other LCS in my area.

 

I just gave you a time period for when it first started to show up on these shores- late 80s. It wasn't at your LCS in the 70s. It WAS here in the late 80s. There are no ifs about it.

 

 

I just don't see Manga retaining popularity because it appears to lack depth, IMO. I am not trying to say that because I don't read it, it won't last type of attitude.

 

What the [#@$%!!!]? It appears to lack depth? You know this how? By looking at the cover of Shonen Jump once (and even Shonen Jump has some stories with a little bit to them once you get beyond the abomination that is Dragonball Z)? That's ridiculous. To grab one prime example (since I'm re-reading it), Lone Wolf and Cub can show more depth in a wordless two page sequence than 99.9% of the comics on the shelves today. The fact that manga offers more than men in tights smashing the [#@$%!!!] out of each other is precisely WHY it's gaining popularity.

 

Anime has evolved in order to retain viewership. Anime still has not taken a foothold as it does in Japan.

 

Does it need to? I wasn't aware that it needed to reach that level of popularity to have "made it" over here. Winning an Academy Award for Best Animated Feature isn't a bad default though.

 

Neither has Manga. Just because it exists does not mean that it will last at this level of popularity.

 

You're right, I think it will GAIN popularity.

[OldGuy]

Lone Wolf and Cub can show more depth in a wordless two page sequence than 99.9% of the comics on the shelves today.

 

On that note, my sister-inlaw went to the LCS to get me a Christmas present. She asked the guy at the counter what I might like that I haven't bought from him (he and I are friends and he knows what I read). He suggested she get me the first Lone Wolf and Cub TPB. He knew I'd never buy it on my own, but was sure I'd like it.

 

He was right. I loved it. I've now told my wife and sister-inlaw that they can get me Lone Wolf and Cub TPB's as gifts for any occasion. I thing there are about 15 or 20 so I should be getting them for some time to come.

[deathlok]

Apparently you have difficulty having a rational discussion about something you obviously feel very passionate about.

 

So I guess you are right Rob, no point in going back and forth.

 

 

deathlok out.

[rob_react]

Apparently you have difficulty having a rational discussion about something you obviously feel very passionate about.

 

So I guess you are right Rob, no point in going back and forth.

 

 

Huh? Where was I not rational? When I was flabbergasted by your ridiculous blanket generalization that "manga lacks depth"? I was totally rational there, just surprised that you'd go out on a limb like that without really knowing the first thing about manga.

 

As a note, I'm not all that passionate about manga specifically. I only read two titles right now- Battle Royale and LW&C. I am passionate about comics though, and since manga are just comics (Seriously, Scott McCloud even covers them in his book Understanding Comics ), I guess we're getting a little bit of that crossover.