will there ever be a con on the west coast devoted to comic art only?

[AKA Rick]

Everybody loves Las Vegas, right?

 

Las Vegas Comic Expo was originally created with a focus on Comic Book Artwork and Comic Book Creators (Artists), held in 2012 and 2013 with a hiatus year in 2014.

[desertdogg2006]

Everybody loves Las Vegas, right?

 

Las Vegas Comic Expo was originally created with a focus on Comic Book Artwork and Comic Book Creators (Artists), held in 2012 and 2013 with a hiatus year in 2014.

 

 

so. is vegas coming back in 2015 maybe.? I never knew that vegas even had a show.

 

larry.

[Bronty]

Many of the original art dealers are on the east coast so its less expensive for them to setup. Coming to the west coast costs (sp?) money to bring the art cover, especially if they want a good size selection

 

So I guess we have to "settle" for Comic-Con... where the largest amount of Comic Art, Comic Artists, Comic Art Dealers and Comic Art Collectors congregate every year.

 

Hmmm, so it costs money to do a west coast show, which is why most east coast dealers don't do them, yet they set up for SDCC every year, in spite of that very expense, for a show where they are a very small piece in a large (and growing larger) mosaic. But they somehow will not support a west cost comic art exclusive show, which showcases them directly and doesn't push them into a back room corner, like SDCC does, because it's not worth the expense?

 

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

I get what you are saying but actually it does make perfect sense. One con has a long history and bankable attendance. The other would be a start up. What would you rather spend your money on as a dealer? The bankable sure thing (warts and all)? Or the brand new con which might tank in its first year?

 

It's a critical mass thing; getting that snowball to be big enough to grow with its own momentum. Show the dealers a track record of growth and they will come. Of course you can't get that growth without getting them to come so it's a bit of a catch 22

[Meeley Man]

Many of the original art dealers are on the east coast so its less expensive for them to setup. Coming to the west coast costs (sp?) money to bring the art cover, especially if they want a good size selection

 

So I guess we have to "settle" for Comic-Con... where the largest amount of Comic Art, Comic Artists, Comic Art Dealers and Comic Art Collectors congregate every year.

 

Hmmm, so it costs money to do a west coast show, which is why most east coast dealers don't do them, yet they set up for SDCC every year, in spite of that very expense, for a show where they are a very small piece in a large (and growing larger) mosaic. But they somehow will not support a west cost comic art exclusive show, which showcases them directly and doesn't push them into a back room corner, like SDCC does, because it's not worth the expense?

 

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

I get what you are saying but actually it does make perfect sense. One con has a long history and bankable attendance. The other would be a start up. What would you rather spend your money on as a dealer? The bankable sure thing (warts and all)? Or the brand new con which might tank in its first year?

 

But as I noted to J.Sid, how many of those 100,000+ attendees at SDCC don't care about comic art? Sure, there's more traffic at SDCC, but if they aren't stopping at your table, or they are but don't buy, how can you recoup the costs of being at SDCC, which aren't cheap?

 

Yes, a smaller show, which is exclusive to comic art, wouldn't get those attendance numbers (at least, not at first and for a while after), but the ones who do come would be coming because they have interest and passion for comic art. Your target demographic would be larger at this smaller event, than it would be at a large event like SDCC. And your costs would be less (I mean, hotel, table, and parking costs alone would likely be much lower than SDCC is). So, lower costs, a larger target demographic, and a focus on the product you are selling. Yet, that is deemed "too expensive." While a large show that has been marginalizing comics for well-over a decade, that brings in huge crowds, most of who don't care about comic art at all, and is way more expensive than a focused smaller show would be, is somehow worthy of the expense.

 

I mean, if dealers on the east don't want to travel out west for "expense reasons," that's cool. But doing a large show, that is more expensive and has less of their target demographic, while rejecting out of hand a smaller and focused show for comic art, which will bring in the actual people they want (because how many folks who might be into comic art, can't get a ticket for SDCC, because they sell out to quickly to cosplayers, video game people, and etc.), just doesn't make any sense.

 

Hell, if "expense" is the reason, why do ANY shows? Just sell online. You can't get less expensive than that, right?

[Bronty]

Well you're just repeating yourself and it sounds like sour grapes Look at it this way way your chances of having one on the west coast of the US are a lot better than my chances in Canada. The location will matter. It sucks sometimes but you don't have it too bad all things considered

 

 

[Brian Peck]

even if its only 10% of sdcc attendees are interested in original comic art thats still 10K. More than most small comic cons and 10x bigger than comic art con

 

[Marwai]

Don't West Coast collectors fly out to NJ to attend Comic Art Con? Shouldn't it be at your expense as a comic art fan to fly out there, grab a ride, get a hotel room, etc. to buy art? The cost is minimal compared to the tens of thousands of dollars you will spend at the show.

 

Just playing devil's advocate.

[AKA Rick]

Don't West Coast collectors fly out to NJ to attend Comic Art Con? Shouldn't it be at your expense as a comic art fan to fly out there, grab a ride, get a hotel room, etc. to buy art? The cost is minimal compared to the tens of thousands of dollars you will spend at the show.

 

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

Question 'tho... is there any artwork offered at Comic Art Con that's not readily available on the major dealers websites who attend?

 

I would speculate of course there's side deals between collectors, but not unlike what happens on the CGC boards, CAF and other websites.

 

So, in other words, other than being potentially fun and social, what unique value does Comic Art Con bring that couldn't be achieved by shopping online?

 

It sounds like Comic Art Con isn't really an "artists" convention either with superstar creators appearing to sell to fans/collectors direct either, so I'm more curious to the exclusive opportunities that show provides to art collectors.

[vodou]

So, in other words, other than being potentially fun and social, what unique value does Comic Art Con bring that couldn't be achieved by shopping online?

I think this is the key question that's not being answered. But actually the market has already done that for us, as everybody that's tried in roundabout ways has found it not terribly popular (in many ways) and thus unprofitable.

 

It's a big financial commitment to start something up from scratch. ("Big" is relative, but even if you're loaded, why spend $2500 on a startup con -just cuz- when you could grab another cover and have no logistical headaches either?) That's why these things usually grow organically, very small in borrowed (Mom's basement, backyard bbq) or cheap space (think Church basements and the like) and, IF they grow over time, eventually expand into larger more organized and professional (and expensive) space and guests are brought in. Somewhere in that timeline is the tipping point of 7% (or whatever number you like) early adopters that brings the herd of followers along. That's the other commitment: time and dedication (and usually some partners to load-share). You've got to have a plan to stick it out, thick and thin, for at least a few years, more than a few shows to give it a chance. Just like comics fans (and tv fans) btch about comics and shows that only go a few issues or half season and are cancelled: "waaaah they didn't even give it a chance"...yes, that would be you running the comic art show, you'd need to "give it a chance" and (probably) lose money the whole way along. $2500 give or take each time, and all the headaches of setting the thing up each time and running it too.

 

Some personalities/skillsets (Nolan Bushnell, Woz and Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, all popular examples fer sure) are really suited for this and you can see their success over time, building things from scratch and then giving them away (or selling them) to others at a certain point and then beginning again. But it's not for everybody. All the whining, begging, pleading in the world won't motivate those folks..they either get a bee in their bonnet for a concept or they don't. Or they're doing other things right now and you may have to wait. Forever? Who knows? But if it's not your thing, that's cool -and really good to know yourself that well to avoid misery and failure- but you have to be cool with that and waiting for the right folks to step up and make it happen. Get an honest answer out of anybody involved in the East Coast event and they'll tell you it was pretty rough the first few years, maybe even up to last year?, dunno, but not easy, attendance was WEAK...all that. And that's with the entire NYC crowd (and their larger than average wallets) a few miles away. Remember the whole time they had bills coming due, tons of work with only volunteers to (hope) show up, and wives and kids wondering why weekends were being given up and money "wasted" on comic bs (yet again, does it ever end??) Get me?

 

West Coast folks should find a good city with a nice fanbase for OA and start up a regular monthly gathering in somebody's backyard or church basement. Then spend some money advertising it and making sure the net/bloggers help promote...and let it run. Still lots of work, but not much cash outlay and you'll have your pool of volunteers (and dedicated ones too!) obvious to you eyes -- the guys that show up to EVERY SINGLE monthly, and have to be asked to leave at the end, long after "closing" time. And it either works or it falls apart from there. The market will tell you if there's enough interest in that city.

[Eric Seffinga]

even if its only 10% of sdcc attendees are interested in original comic art thats still 10K. More than most small comic cons and 10x bigger than comic art con

 

Forgive me while I pull some numbers and scenarios completely out of my butt, but I'd be very surprised if the percentage of attending actual regular art buyers (rather than ogglers, and curiosity seekers) of original comic art at SDCC would be more like 1%.

 

I mean really, the hobby has exploded in nerd awareness the last decade for sure, but it is still a very small subculture (travelling art collectors) within a subculture (comic collectors). I think what SDCC offers is a great place for the casual buyer. Not the hardcore guys that annually travel to shows specifically hunting for artwork new to the market. But the folks that buy books, or toys, or even their first page of OA. Potentially their only page. Grab the one example of a modern book, or an old classic they've loved since childhood and are content with it. There are folks out there who impulse buy some pretty expensive stuff at SDCC. Also who don't ahve that gotta have it all gene or bug.

 

I am sure that were an OA-specific show to start up, it would be very sparsely attended the first year, and would need to be run by someone willing to potentially lose money the first couple. It would largely be attended by the locals or at least those within day-trip driving distance, since it costs them next to nothing, and those adventurous enough to take the gamble, or just looking for an excuse to take a trip. Depending on those people's experiences and how much they post about it, will determine whether the show could continue. If everyone has a good time, aces. If folks say it was cool, but they could have stayed home and bought the same work online, well...

 

What can and does happen at shows, is the smart dealers bring out work that ISN'T on their websites. It can be enough to create a draw. Even the reason to make the trip sometimes. It also takes a long time to scan and load everything in some guys' inventory, so in many cases it's not online simply out of logistics. Shows give those guys an opportunity to put the wares out there in bulk, rather than individually list every single little thing.

 

But an OA show isn't going to draw the merely curious unless they are locals. So that means travelers only. How many travelling full hard-on art collectors are there? A few hundred at most, globally speaking? Most of them at SDCC.

 

I see pros and cons to an art-only event. I would think it would be wise for any such event to take a page from some of the other artist specific events going on and take advantage of artists becoming increasingly disillusioned by SDCC. Cater to current working artists as much as dealers selling vintage wares. Give them the same direct sell opportunity as the dealers. It might widen the scope of attendance enough to introduce people into moderns to the historic pieces some dealers are selling, and conversely introduce some of the old guns to some of the young guys making great work.

 

At the same time, any event is going to be a loser for the first bit, and it's only through very hard work, willingness to soldier on through the issues, and bringing it all off in a fashion people can't get elsewhere before it takes hold.

 

So the real question is who is going to start such a show? Having a partner or backer with a name or representational presence in the field would help. Having big players like Heritage take part (casting a net for future auctions and featuring auctions about to happen), and having it somewhere people would like to be other than just at the show can help attract travelers.

 

I wouldn't start such a thing. It's gonna take a very special person to do it if it ever happens.

[Eric Seffinga]

...and Vodou covered the "who" very well.