Is this medium killing itself?!

[Pedro1974.5]

 

To everyone

 

This hobby seems to have created a way to kill itself with the prices everything is fetching these days.

 

It's been more than one decade that the values simply have been exploding non stop, rpeventing it's collector/ fan base to increase and remaon solid.

 

Do you think this hobby/ medium is getting out of reach due to the finacial increase. The values the books have been getting will be putting aside the chance to re-generate it"s fan base?

 

I'm happy to have bought the majority of my stuff in the late 90's early 2000's, nowadays even with a stable Financial situation i couldn't have bought half of what i have...

 

and i'm not talking about mega keys (AF15, etc...) every 1st app simply adds a few more zéros to the price tag!

 

regards

[CAHokie]

I am actually writing a article on a similar topic about this right now. The Hobby seems to be at an all time high, but I'm not for sure how long it will last due to some of the reasons you mentioned. I know that all of these big events with multiple crossovers and reboots are killing it for me.

[miraclemet]

Im a little confused by the "hobby" you are referring to...

 

Is it comic book collecting in general? If so then no, entry into the hobby is as cheap as a book from the dollar bin, and I spent many years building a fun collection of comics I enjoyed reading from those bins.

 

Is it high end comic book collecting?, then sure its a self selecting group with a relatively high price for joining. But that's like complaining that collecting Lamborginis is too expensive of a hobby.

 

We are enjoying a renaissance in the last decade of comic book access between the TPB/HC publishing market and the growth of the digital availability of comics. We have more access to more books (to read content-wise) than we ever have. So it's a great time to become a comic book READER.

 

Everyone finds their way to enjoy this hobby. I like GA Sci-Fi. My pocket book does not allow for purchasing high-end EC comics for hundreds or thousands of dollars a pop. It does allow me to buy collected editions and collect a title like Space Adventures in high grade, thus I get to enjoy the hobby!

[lizards2]

Is this medium killing itself?!

 

Yes. When I see a sales thread with 5-7 copies of FF 45, yes.

 

Flippers flipping to flippers are killing this hobby.

 

No affordable copies left for the collectors. Yet dealers have a bunch of them.

 

[Pedro1974.5]

Is this medium killing itself?!

 

Yes. When I see a sales thread with 5-7 copies of FF 45, yes.

 

Flippers flipping to flippers are killing this hobby.

 

No affordable copies left for the collectors. Yet dealers have a bunch of them.

 

 

Ditto

 

I have a VGish FF45 since many years and happy with it, but for example my FF52 is at best a poor one (really loved comic). Wwould love to upgrade it, when i say upgrade have a F/VF nothing too fancy (9.0's an up). But came on the 8.0's are getting near the a grand an a half, the ragged copies of Hulk 181 fetch half a grand,... just ridiculous

 

Indeed flippers flip flippers and collectors that miss the boat, well, they wave and accept the holes in their respective collections.

 

I just think it keeps a lot of people away and even tend to leave a bitter taste in the mouth (or wallet) of longtime collectors/ fans.

 

The avengers 1st ultrons, visions, etc... (and i have these and nice shape), who can get near those prices (again i'm not talking about 9.0's and up)?!

 

Everything is just about money, money, money,...

 

it tends to fade the magic of being a fan/ collector.

 

sorry, end of rant

 

regards

[squidmo2000]

[Doc McCoy]

The fact that this book sells for more or as much as the first appearances of Wolverine (Hulk 180 & 181) has always seemed like an indicator to me that there are some really messed up things in this hobby.

 

 

[Pedro1974.5]

The fact that this book sells for more or as much as the first appearances of Wolverine (Hulk 180 & 181) has always seemed like an indicator to me that there are some really messed up things in this hobby.

 

 

 

what's so special about it?

 

regards

[ComicConnoisseur]

The fact that this book sells for more or as much as the first appearances of Wolverine (Hulk 180 & 181) has always seemed like an indicator to me that there are some really messed up things in this hobby.

 

 

It`s a manufactured collectible like something you buy at the Franklin Mint.

Now that isn`t bad because the Franklin Mint is a billion dollar business.

So some people are making profits.

The bad news is most Franklin Mint stuff is always sold for a loss by the owners when they try to unload their manufactured collectible on EBay a few years down the road.

So just figure out what THE manufactured comic book collectibles are and which ones have true value.

 

One thing I STRESS is these manufactured collectible comics do bring in money to the hobby, so they are not entirely a bad thing.

IMHO.

[FlyingDonut]

The fact that this book sells for more or as much as the first appearances of Wolverine (Hulk 180 & 181) has always seemed like an indicator to me that there are some really messed up things in this hobby.

 

 

It`s a manufactured collectible like something you buy at the Franklin Mint.

Now that isn`t bad because the Franklin Mint is a billion dollar business.

So some people are making profits.

The bad news is most Franklin Mint stuff is always sold for a loss by the owners when they try to unload their manufactured collectible on EBay a few years down the road.

So just figure out what THE manufactured comic book collectibles are and which ones have true value.

 

One thing I STRESS is these manufactured collectible comics do bring in money to the hobby, so they are not entirely a bad thing.

IMHO.

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect sucks."

[Tempus Fugit]

The vast majority of books for sale at local shows are cheaper than new books.

 

This hobby is extremely scalable. There is plenty of room for all budgets, that's one of the things that makes it great. Low grade books are another great option for those on a budget.

 

Hot books are nothing new, I remember when X-Men 94 was the hot book that flippers got into. They were pulling them out longboxes and reselling them for a whopping $30, it was shameful.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The fact that this book sells for more or as much as the first appearances of Wolverine (Hulk 180 & 181) has always seemed like an indicator to me that there are some really messed up things in this hobby.

 

 

It`s a manufactured collectible like something you buy at the Franklin Mint.

Now that isn`t bad because the Franklin Mint is a billion dollar business.

So some people are making profits.

The bad news is most Franklin Mint stuff is always sold for a loss by the owners when they try to unload their manufactured collectible on EBay a few years down the road.

So just figure out what THE manufactured comic book collectibles are and which ones have true value.

 

One thing I STRESS is these manufactured collectible comics do bring in money to the hobby, so they are not entirely a bad thing.

IMHO.

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect sucks."

Yep, and that`s why I STRESSED the manufactured collectibles do bring in money to the hobby which is a positive..

 

People can collect all the 9.8 variants they want at $100 to $1000 a piece, and it`s good for the hobby moneywise.

The only negative is when these people go to sell those 9.8 variants down the road in 5 to 10 years they shouldn`t be shocked if they lost money.

The shiny new variant today will be replaced by the next shiny new variant tomorrow.

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

The vast majority of books for sale at local shows are cheaper than new books.

 

This hobby is extremely scalable. There is plenty of room for all budgets, that's one of the things that makes it great. Low grade books are another great option for those on a budget.

 

Hot books are nothing new, I remember when X-Men 94 was the hot book that flippers got into. They were pulling them out longboxes and reselling them for a whopping $30, it was shameful.

The only difference in your analogy is that the X-Men 94 they were spending big bucks on back then was read, and considered the beginning of a ground breaking new series, while the Deadpool Wolverine variant isn`t ground breaking, but just a gimmick.

 

A MANUAFACTURED COLLECTIBLE like something you order from Finger Hut or the Franklin Mint.

X-Men 94 started an era, while the Deadpool variant is well just a comic book made to have someone buy it for a different cover.

 

[Pedro1974.5]

Im a little confused by the "hobby" you are referring to...

 

Is it comic book collecting in general? If so then no, entry into the hobby is as cheap as a book from the dollar bin, and I spent many years building a fun collection of comics I enjoyed reading from those bins.

 

Is it high end comic book collecting?, then sure its a self selecting group with a relatively high price for joining. But that's like complaining that collecting Lamborginis is too expensive of a hobby.

 

We are enjoying a renaissance in the last decade of comic book access between the TPB/HC publishing market and the growth of the digital availability of comics. We have more access to more books (to read content-wise) than we ever have. So it's a great time to become a comic book READER.

 

Everyone finds their way to enjoy this hobby. I like GA Sci-Fi. My pocket book does not allow for purchasing high-end EC comics for hundreds or thousands of dollars a pop. It does allow me to buy collected editions and collect a title like Space Adventures in high grade, thus I get to enjoy the hobby!

 

this medium is way more than just the dollar bins comics (which can have great reading stuff) and the high grade mega keys...

 

for you a "regular collector" who tries to have a nice silver/ bronze age collection (again mid grade copies and skipping the n°1's from the major titles) is like collecting lamborghinis?!?!

 

is this trend something new? of course not. Are the new stratospheric values that a lot of stuff is fetching imrpessive? Yes

When i say stratospheric it isn't just the AF15!

 

regards

[FineCollector]

I have a VGish FF45 since many years and happy with it, but for example my FF52 is at best a poor one (really loved comic). Wwould love to upgrade it, when i say upgrade have a F/VF nothing too fancy (9.0's an up). But came on the 8.0's are getting near the a grand an a half, the ragged copies of Hulk 181 fetch half a grand,... just ridiculous

 

Indeed flippers flip flippers and collectors that miss the boat, well, they wave and accept the holes in their respective collections.

 

I just think it keeps a lot of people away and even tend to leave a bitter taste in the mouth (or wallet) of longtime collectors/ fans.

 

The avengers 1st ultrons, visions, etc... (and i have these and nice shape), who can get near those prices (again i'm not talking about 9.0's and up)?!

 

Everything is just about money, money, money,...

 

it tends to fade the magic of being a fan/ collector.

 

sorry, end of rant

 

regards

 

I'm a run collector, and hate those dirty flippers, but I think you've missed the mark.

 

If you have an FF52, you're better off than a lot of people who would love to own your copy if it was priced fairly. It might not be in great shape, but the upgrade is a want rather than a need for you.

 

It's all about money, yes, but it always has been. When you started collecting, everything was worth something, and a few were worth more. You decided what was in your collecting budget, and you bought that. New collectors have to be smart and do the same.

 

The keys have spiked in price because of flippers hoarding copies and creating artificial rarity, yes. However, the common stuff that the flippers don't want has never been cheaper. In the 90's, I was paying good money for every single issue I wanted. Not so anymore. Relatively speaking, I figure the cost of putting together a run is probably the same as it's always been, there's just a bigger bullet to bite when you hit the big book.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I have a VGish FF45 since many years and happy with it, but for example my FF52 is at best a poor one (really loved comic). Wwould love to upgrade it, when i say upgrade have a F/VF nothing too fancy (9.0's an up). But came on the 8.0's are getting near the a grand an a half, the ragged copies of Hulk 181 fetch half a grand,... just ridiculous

 

Indeed flippers flip flippers and collectors that miss the boat, well, they wave and accept the holes in their respective collections.

 

I just think it keeps a lot of people away and even tend to leave a bitter taste in the mouth (or wallet) of longtime collectors/ fans.

 

The avengers 1st ultrons, visions, etc... (and i have these and nice shape), who can get near those prices (again i'm not talking about 9.0's and up)?!

 

Everything is just about money, money, money,...

 

it tends to fade the magic of being a fan/ collector.

 

sorry, end of rant

 

regards

 

I'm a run collector, and hate those dirty flippers, but I think you've missed the mark.

 

If you have an FF52, you're better off than a lot of people who would love to own your copy if it was priced fairly. It might not be in great shape, but the upgrade is a want rather than a need for you.

 

It's all about money, yes, but it always has been. When you started collecting, everything was worth something, and a few were worth more. You decided what was in your collecting budget, and you bought that. New collectors have to be smart and do the same.

 

The keys have spiked in price because of flippers hoarding copies and creating artificial rarity, yes. However, the common stuff that the flippers don't want has never been cheaper. In the 90's, I was paying good money for every single issue I wanted. Not so anymore. Relatively speaking, I figure the cost of putting together a run is probably the same as it's always been, there's just a bigger bullet to bite when you hit the big book.

Comic books are following the same path as coins and sports cards did.

In coins post 1909 they only want the key coins in the series, and variants(mistakes, low mintage) and sportcards the same they want only rookie cards and refractor cards(limited print run variants).

The days of someone putting together a run of FF #1 to #102 are over.

They just want 9.8s, movie hype keys and variant covers for the most part.

Follow what happened in coins and sportscards, and you will see comic books are now headed down the same path. It`s not about the artist or good stories anymore,but the good flip.

[jsilverjanet]

Are flippers "hoarding" and "causing an artificial rarity"? Isn't flipping the "art" of buying a hot book and "flipping" it for a profit immediately?

 

I think you issue is with "speculators" who are paying these high prices and hoarding these copies.

 

The flipper is just meeting the market demand.

 

And finally, what's the difference between a flipper and a dealer? Plenty of dealers flip books. I never hear an outcry at them. I buy plenty of collections and it's a lot of work.

 

Flipping moderns is one thing. Buying collections, organizing, research etc all takes time and effort. I may not set up at major cons, or have a store but the work isn't easy. I'm not complaining, I enjoy the work.

 

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I have a VGish FF45 since many years and happy with it, but for example my FF52 is at best a poor one (really loved comic). Wwould love to upgrade it, when i say upgrade have a F/VF nothing too fancy (9.0's an up). But came on the 8.0's are getting near the a grand an a half, the ragged copies of Hulk 181 fetch half a grand,... just ridiculous

 

Indeed flippers flip flippers and collectors that miss the boat, well, they wave and accept the holes in their respective collections.

 

I just think it keeps a lot of people away and even tend to leave a bitter taste in the mouth (or wallet) of longtime collectors/ fans.

 

The avengers 1st ultrons, visions, etc... (and i have these and nice shape), who can get near those prices (again i'm not talking about 9.0's and up)?!

 

Everything is just about money, money, money,...

 

it tends to fade the magic of being a fan/ collector.

 

sorry, end of rant

 

regards

 

I'm a run collector, and hate those dirty flippers, but I think you've missed the mark.

 

If you have an FF52, you're better off than a lot of people who would love to own your copy if it was priced fairly. It might not be in great shape, but the upgrade is a want rather than a need for you.

 

It's all about money, yes, but it always has been. When you started collecting, everything was worth something, and a few were worth more. You decided what was in your collecting budget, and you bought that. New collectors have to be smart and do the same.

 

The keys have spiked in price because of flippers hoarding copies and creating artificial rarity, yes. However, the common stuff that the flippers don't want has never been cheaper. In the 90's, I was paying good money for every single issue I wanted. Not so anymore. Relatively speaking, I figure the cost of putting together a run is probably the same as it's always been, there's just a bigger bullet to bite when you hit the big book.

 

Comic books are following the same path as coins and sports cards did.

In coins post 1909 they only want the key coins in the series, and variants(mistakes, low mintage) and sportcards the same they want only rookie cards and refractor cards(limited print run variants).

The days of someone putting together a run of FF #1 to #102 are over.

They just want 9.8s, movie hype keys and variant covers for the most part.

Follow what happened in coins and sportscards, and you will see comic books are now headed down the same path. It`s not about the artist or good stories anymore,but the good flip.

 

This isn't directed at you as much as the topic...

 

I don't get why people are so doom and gloom about the industry and the market. As has been stated, comics are at an all time high. The movies and box-office have shown that there is a market- a huge market even- and people are coming into the hobby. Many of them are looking for that nostalgia factor, but they are still coming back. Almost monthly we have a poster say they are getting back into the hobby now that they have expendable income.

 

At the same time, the modern market is doing well. Sales last year were at a 10 year high. Sure some of that was because the cover price has gotten inflated a bit, but people are still willing to pay the price. Some of it might be driven by the variant flippers, but if those people want to pay the price, let them.

 

Why I'm responding to you though ComicConnoisseur, is the notion that books aren't being driven by good writers. I just can't disagree with that more. Look at the success of Kirkman. He puts his name on something and it sells in the top 30. Look at Thief of Thieves: when he was on the title it sold. Once he left and the quality left with him, it dropped off. Look at someone like Bendis or Brubaker. They are successful because they write quality stories (I know Bendis is polarizing).

 

The market isn't driven by the character name anymore, but rather the creators on the front. Heck if Rucka's name is on the cover, I'm buying the book.

 

I get that there are similarities to the 90s, but at the same time there are huge differences. Comics are a billion dollar business now with movies and shows.

 

This isn't the 90s and the fall. If there is a fall, it might be a correction. As long as Avengers is selling, then I don't see a collapse coming. As long as The Walking Dead is soaring, I don't see a collapse. As long as DC is trying their hardest to put out quality, competitive movies, then I just don't see a collapse coming.

 

Heck even yesterday at lunch suddenly the conversation turned to iZombie. I wanted to mention that it was a comic, but the conversation was more about music. One of my coworkers is reading TWD because of the show. It is gratifying to sit at work as adults and talk about comics.

 

Why when it might be the true Golden Age of comics do we have to be so negative? Why do we need a pessimistic thread every week? Why don't we create a "Pessimism Sub Forum"?

[ChrisInBaltimore]

Are flippers "hoarding" and "causing an artificial rarity"? Isn't flipping the "art" of buying a hot book and "flipping" it for a profit immediately?

 

I think you issue is with "speculators" who are paying these high prices and hoarding these copies.

 

The flipper is just meeting the market demand.

 

And finally, what's the difference between a flipper and a dealer? Plenty of dealers flip books. I never hear an outcry at them. I buy plenty of collections and it's a lot of work.

 

Flipping moderns is one thing. Buying collections, organizing, research etc all takes time and effort. I may not set up at major cons, or have a store but the work isn't easy. I'm not complaining, I enjoy the work.

 

 

Flipping and speculating are dirty words. I talk to plenty of dealers and collectors here that dabble in flipping and speculating. They are also quick to pull out the pitchforks and attack the flippers though.

 

Heck we have a lot of people that make money pressing and helping flippers. They are quick to call shame on the very people that support them though.

 

If people would spend some time in the modern section, they'd also see that many of the flippers are also huge proponents of quality stories.

[Gem_Mint]

Im a little confused by the "hobby" you are referring to...

 

Is it comic book collecting in general? If so then no, entry into the hobby is as cheap as a book from the dollar bin, and I spent many years building a fun collection of comics I enjoyed reading from those bins.

 

Is it high end comic book collecting?, then sure its a self selecting group with a relatively high price for joining. But that's like complaining that collecting Lamborginis is too expensive of a hobby.

 

We are enjoying a renaissance in the last decade of comic book access between the TPB/HC publishing market and the growth of the digital availability of comics. We have more access to more books (to read content-wise) than we ever have. So it's a great time to become a comic book READER.

 

Everyone finds their way to enjoy this hobby. I like GA Sci-Fi. My pocket book does not allow for purchasing high-end EC comics for hundreds or thousands of dollars a pop. It does allow me to buy collected editions and collect a title like Space Adventures in high grade, thus I get to enjoy the hobby!

 

This post gave me hope. You're 100% correct. Although collecting keys has gotten expensive, there is no shortage of reprints, trades, and digital copies to read those stories.

 

Shoot, one could actually torrrent ever issuse of every comic (for the most part).

 

So buyers, flippers, collectors, they know what they're getting themselves into when buying high dollar books.

 

I do feel like this over-saturated movie market will cause a crash. The general public will get sick of them, some will not perform as expected, and some will flop. I think this will cause the "hot" book trend to die down.... but we still have a few more years.

 

I wonder what Marvel is going to do after Infinity War

 

I've said to some buddies that I bet an Inhumans movire won't even come out.

 

That movie being made is based on the success of Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and all those other movies announced that come out prior.