A newbye needs your advises

[Atreides-migration]

Here I am again!

Many thanks to everybody who spent some time to reply me. Thank you!

 

@spiderphill, wombat, Artboy99, Senormac: Yes I agree, this was a great collecting lesson! I learned more from this buying than I ever learned watching completed auctions on ebay. I know Daredevil comic books are not so rare, but it's note usual to see them here in Italy, even in comic conventions.

 

Buyers Remorse. Everybody suffers from it at some point in their life. I think they make a little blue pill for it.

 

I'm quite sure it's illegal!

 

 

 

Would it be more cost-effective for you to purchase books from England? There are some great reputable dealers there...start with flaming_telepath here on the boards. Also we have a selling forum here and a "want to buy" forum as well! Good luck! \(thumbs u

 

Yes, to purchase books from England and from Germany is cheaper, but usually comic books are a little more expensive and exchange pound/euros si less favorable.

 

I know the market place here and I already bought two comics from a kind collector. Thank you for the advices!

 

Next time you're in that situation, remember, you can take as much time as you like to decide. Look the books over long and carefully...use a guide or eBay on your smart phone to get an idea of value.

But take you're time.

 

Good advice. During our negotiation I consider not to buy them and think about it until the next time I will see the seller (in September), but you know how the story ended.

 

 

please don't send them to cgc. it will absolutely not be worth it to grade them.

 

Ok! Thank you! Does anybody else agree?

 

Well, now you've got them, try to make the best of it.

Sit down, read them, put them in new bags and boards, that will make you feel a little bit better about them.

Then file them away in a short/long box, and check them off your list.

You now have filled holes in your collection, and can upgrade them later when the right deals come along.

 

I really like this advice. You are right! Check the books, organize them is one of the best part in collecting. I' ll try, even if I think they will always remind me this story (and maybe this is a good thing).

 

 

You sounded like you were happy during the initial purchase. Are the comics worth what you paid for them, to you? To heck with retail value - if they are worth what you had paid, to you, yourself, then they are worth the 30% - 40% you paid over retail. With enough buyers paying a little more, like you, then the retail price will go up. But that does not really matter unless you want to sell right away

 

Is this a US retail price you are basing this on? Think of the extra shipping cost and buying books without seeing them in person first. The same condition already slabbed and shipped from the US would probably cost you just as much if not more. To find someone close to you that has the foreign (to you) books makes them worth a little bit more.

 

Good point! No, I think they are not worth what I payed for. I realized it very quickly. I consider duty and shipping costs but I paid too much anyway. Now, I think that if a similar situation should happen again, I would probably don't buy comics I'm not satisfied of, even if they costs half of their value.

I learned it's better to pay a lot for a comic book you love, than to pay few money for a book you don't. (...not sure about the grammar of this sentence...)

 

 

 

[Atreides-migration]

Well, now you've got them, try to make the best of it.

Sit down, read them, put them in new bags and boards, that will make you feel a little bit better about them.

Then file them away in a short/long box, and check them off your list.

You now have filled holes in your collection, and can upgrade them later when the right deals come along.

 

This. Keep them and replace them as you can. If you aren't sure about condition just buy graded comics until you get a better feel for how CGC grades them. Study up on the boards to find out how to spot restoration, learn to do page counts, etc.

 

EDIT: As well as buying graded comics you can also look on the boards for raws. There are many reputable dealers here who can grade properly.

 

Good advice! Thank you!

[Atreides-migration]

Try and sell them if you really don't want them. I would not go back to the seller. He did nothing wrong. Actually he taught you a good lesson.

 

Well… actually not at all, because he is a common friend of us both and he does not have a clue on how to grade (and thus price) american comic books. Marco was eager to get early Daredevil issues and he may have learned a lesson but not from the seller. You should never give for granted that a foreign seller not accustomed to deal with your market is aware of grading approaches and up to date with market prices. Each country has its own characteristics, and grading has become so accurate in the north-american comics market alone, especially after CGC, so there are important distinctions to be made each time you approach a different collecting market.

 

Even if we have been acquainted for a few years, I have been able to give very limited advice to Marco so far, but that is because you learn mostly by entering the US collecting market by yourself, and build up your own experience.

I believe budsbundy's advice is the best one: Marco, you saved at least $30-40 on shipping, and all in all Overstreet prices aren’t "the law": check more sources, ended eBay listings or others, and in the end do not worry about upgrading: you can do this little by little, and maybe just for the issues you care more about. (thumbs u

 

Also, Marco already made a purchase on the boards, from Andrew (1Cool).

 

What I meant was the lesson learned was don't buy books if you don't know what you are doing.

 

Yes, as said before, seller counts on me to find a good price for both of us, and I made a mistake, because I was too eager (as Valiant said).

Seller thoght he had a little treasure in his hands. I think it was up to me to make him understand the real value of those books.

You must also consider I asked him to show me those books, because they were not part of his merchandise (he hold them in his collection).

 

I know Overstreet or Ebay are not The Bible, but they can give you an idea of what a book is worth (If overstreet says 80, and ebay 60, I can think a book isn't worth 150!)

 

 

 

Yes, I already told Marco about the Marketplace, and also about Nick… I’m sure that now that he has been bitten by the bug of "original editions" collecting to a serious degree he might be "done"…

 

Re-reading budsbundy advice and knowing Marco I think it’s even more fit… He loves to catalog and file his collections. He even likes to do custom boxes and bound volumes…

 

You do know me, pal!

 

 

Can we see a picture of the books?

 

Yes, I posted some scans asking for grading in the "Hey buddy, can you spare a grade?" room. The recent PGM Daredevil you see are part of the lot.

 

 

You've gotten a lot of great advice here!

 

Yes, I agree!

[vaillant]

All in all, this always happens when we are too eager to get some comics (or other items) which are not a common thing around us.

It is easy to see Marco's mistake, and the seller's unwillingly higher price, because there is very little collecting of Silver and Bronze Age Marvels in original edition here.

 

I learned to go "by impulse" only when I realize (or I have the strong suspect) that an item is really rare or scarce.

 

Atreides knew the original Daredevil books aren’t particularly "hot" and still very reasonably priced compared to other Marvel SA titles, but I still believe it’s not just a bad thing: now he has a nice batch of low to mid grade early issues and he can upgrade them little by little to his desired grades. (thumbs u

[Atreides-migration]

Good! I hope I can upgrade them without loosing too much money.

 

Now I wonder if somebody else agrees with Revat and suggest me NOT to submit my low grade comics to CGC and why!

Let me know what you think.

[wombat]

Good! I hope I can upgrade them without loosing too much money.

 

Now I wonder if somebody else agrees with Revat and suggest me NOT to submit my low grade comics to CGC and why!

Let me know what you think.

 

Compare how much it will cost you to have them graded vs. buying ones already graded.

[revat]

Good! I hope I can upgrade them without loosing too much money.

 

Now I wonder if somebody else agrees with Revat and suggest me NOT to submit my low grade comics to CGC and why!

Let me know what you think.

 

 

 

As for submitting to CGC, it doesn't seem like a great idea to me, BUT it really depends on what you're planning to do with the comics, and their conditions (and their prices at those conditions).

 

* What you paid for your comics has no bearing on what's to follow. They are a sunk cost, and play no part in the following analysis. The following assumes you ONLY want to maximize your cash flow from these comics.

 

Assuming they are mostly early low to mid grade daredevils, they will each run you $40 each to get graded by CGC. Add in $5 invoice, international shipping there, international shipping back, insurance both ways, and you're looking at closer to $50+ per comic to have graded (depending on how many you send in, there can be some economies to be gained). And that's not counting the turnaround time (4+ months with international shipping), opportunity cost of your money being tied up, potential customs fees/issues, CGC risk (mislabeling or cracked slabs), or the risk that a comic comes back incomplete/restored.

 

SO it would ONLY be worth it for comics that will likely sell for $50+ slabbed more than raw at the same grade. But who wants to go through all that time and trouble to break even, or even to make $20 (note that dealers selling in volume might be willing to do this, but probably not most collectors), especially when factoring in translation fees, selling fees, and taxes? And if you actually try to sell slabs, the high cost (and added risk) of shipping slabs makes them tougher to sell, especially from an unknown European seller (assuming you haven't done a lot of it), especially with longer wait times, translation fees, tougher returns, and comics that are not extremely special or high grade.

 

Basically, look at it this way:

I'd much rather buy Daredevil 6-10 in 5.0 for full OSPG plus $20 int'l shipping and submit them myself than I would Daredevil 6-10 CGC 5.5 full GPA plus $55 int'l shipping.

 

So look up the prices of your raw comics in Overstreet (OSPG), take off 20%, look up the prices on GPA (they price CGC comics), take off 30%. This assumes that you think you can grade silver/bronze comics fairly accurately in midgrade (which most will tell you is tough). If the price difference is $100 or more (I've added a cushion price to be sure and for fees, etc), then MAYBE its worth it, but still probably not.

 

How much is your time worth? Is it worth ALL this trouble, extra investment, risk, time, and stress?

 

You got a stack of DD #1, do it. Otherwise....do the math, and probably pass on submission.

[01TheDude]

I can't understand the need to slab these mid grade Daredevils in the first place.

 

They are nice books as they stand and you can still open them and read them.

 

Unless you have some serious desire to own a slabbed comic book for the sake of owning slabbed books

 

OR the book at the grade you think it is when CGC certified is worth a great deal AND you plan to sell it knowing this.

 

I understand some folks like to collect CGC books and that is fine. But if you are ultimately not interested in ever selling the book, keeping it raw and protected is so much better. You can still read it!

 

Of course-- that is coming from someone who has never even owned a single CGC slab. I am fine with owning only raw books. I don't have a display area or the need to encapsulate my collection. Different strokes.

[vaillant]

That‘s just because Marco is unexperienced with CGC grading and what might or might not be worth slabbing.

And, unlike you and me finds some fascination in having a few slabbed books as they are something relatively new for him. But I will not encourage him to slab…

 

Actually he could do it through some european venue I could address him to, but it would still be expensive and Revat’s excellent analysis nails the point precisely, IMO.

 

Actually, there was a graded #1 in the collection but our friend/dealer has chosen to keep it for now. :shrug:

[Atreides-migration]

Good! I hope I can upgrade them without loosing too much money.

 

Now I wonder if somebody else agrees with Revat and suggest me NOT to submit my low grade comics to CGC and why!

Let me know what you think.

 

 

You got a stack of DD #1, do it. Otherwise....do the math, and probably pass on submission.

 

Thank you Revant for your analysis. I understood quite everything and I see your point.

Just for clearness, I'm not used with some terms so can you tell me what "OSPG" and "GPA" are for?

 

 

I have few slabbed comic books in my collection and they are all (but one) variant covers. Some time ago I thought about collecting slabbed variant edition and raw regular edition to read the story.

I like to read the stories, and I think a comic book is made to be read, but slabbed comics are really fascinating for me (I don't know why).

Also, it's true that if I want to read DD#1 I will not take the original valuable issue, but a cheap reprint. I think I have at least 3 different cheap edition of that story (in Italian, of course).

 

More, I saw slabbed comics are usually more valuables than raw ones.

That's why I thought about slabbed them, but Revant's analysis is really good so I will think carrefully before submit my comic books.

 

 

[vaillant]

No, if you pick a DD#1 you will read it!

 

OSPG: Overstreet Price Guide

GPA: It’s an online service which keeps track of the sales of slabbed comic books:

http://comics.gpanalysis.com/

 

(thumbs u

 

Ah, and it’s Revat, not Revant…

[revat]

Good! I hope I can upgrade them without loosing too much money.

 

Now I wonder if somebody else agrees with Revat and suggest me NOT to submit my low grade comics to CGC and why!

Let me know what you think.

 

 

You got a stack of DD #1, do it. Otherwise....do the math, and probably pass on submission.

 

Thank you Revant for your analysis. I understood quite everything and I see your point.

Just for clearness, I'm not used with some terms so can you tell me what "OSPG" and "GPA" are for?

 

 

I have few slabbed comic books in my collection and they are all (but one) variant covers. Some time ago I thought about collecting slabbed variant edition and raw regular edition to read the story.

I like to read the stories, and I think a comic book is made to be read, but slabbed comics are really fascinating for me (I don't know why).

Also, it's true that if I want to read DD#1 I will not take the original valuable issue, but a cheap reprint. I think I have at least 3 different cheap edition of that story (in Italian, of course).

 

More, I saw slabbed comics are usually more valuables than raw ones.

That's why I thought about slabbed them, but Revant's analysis is really good so I will think carrefully before submit my comic books.

 

 

 

(thumbs u

 

hope it helps. The reason a lot of slabbed books are worth more is because there's some cost in getting them graded and slabbed, and the fact that they check for restoration has a lot of value too. Its often hard for two people (with different interests and experience to agree on the grade of a comic. CGC (in theory) establishes a consistent 3rd party grading system that should be 'fair' to both buyers and sellers. There is some 'value' to that as well. That's why on average, graded books sell for more than raw books at the same grade.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

 

Another note: OF COURSE everyone wants to get the best books they can at the best value that they can. And it sounds like you might have some concerns because you THINK you overpaid for some comics. But I'm guessing its very tough to buy American comics (especially older ones) in Italy. So while you might think you overpaid, you should factor in time spent searching online, paying someone internationally where there might be translation fees or taxes, international shipping, customs issues, wait time, difficult international returns, condition/restoration disagreements. Additionally, for many collectors there's a ton of value in physically looking at a book before they buy it, inspecting condition, restoration, and other nostalgic/collector-ish feelings, and maybe even getting a bit of the backstory of the comic(s), which for a 1960's Daredevil comic in Italy in 2015, there is probably SOME story.

 

This boils down to (and this applies to the 'should I slab?' question as well) is: The market price in Italy for a given comic probably isn't the same as the market price in America for a comic...so .....ask valiant for advice.

[vaillant]

Thanks Rev, accurate as usual.

 

I don’t want to risk to "oversimplify", but honestly, given the (relative) handiness in having the possibility to purchase online across the globe (except for these who do not use the Internet, but again they can ask someone to buy on their behalf) the market prices for books and magazines should more or less be consistent across the world.

 

The majority of italian dealers (and collectors) are not accustomed, or not updated to the current ways of (anglo)american collecting. They might find books in Italy and if they are accurate and know how to do it, they grade and price them accurately (not later than a month ago I bought a pair of Thors from a dealer who knows what he is doing).

In the case of our friend/dealer, I honestly do not know if he purchased that Daredevil collection from an italian or from a foreign seller. So I am not sure these Daredevil stayed for 40+ years in Italy or not (they do not have any import stamps, so it might be they did not). But regardless of this you are right: it does not happen every day to have the possibility to buy a batch of low range issues (up to #2) and see them in person.

 

To me, that in the last three years I have become accustomed and up to date once again with the current collecting market, it would have been easier to let them go and see to pick them individually trying to get better deals, but I still believe Marco did not make a "mistake" in buying them, even if he overpaid a bit.

I can always help him to upgrade them, but I believe he’s enough fluent in english to get acquainted with some of our seller friends here to be able to follow his transactions himself. We can just help each other to slash shipping costs, and my friends here have been invaluable (thanks Tim, Matthew, and all the others! (thumbs u ).

[Securitybob]

I recently made a purchase of some comics myself and miss judged the value. I am normally pretty good but I failed to notice a few flaws. So I can understand your pain, but as most people are saying lesson learned. I have to agree with them and say that I am in the same boat and plan on using them in future trades.

 

It happens and you just have to move on form the mistake.

[Erndog]

I visited Italy this past year. Went to Rome, Tuscany, Florence, Capri, Assisi, Pompei, among others. I did not see any comics, anywhere.

 

Very cool to see an Italian Daredevil fan grabbing these books in Italy. Revat paints a nice picture as to the additional costs/factors you should probably consider. All in all, they are some sweet books and I hope you enjoy them

[vaillant]

Hi Ern,

that is simply because collecting of original editions never really took off here. It bloomed a bit during the period when the books were no longer published in italian editions (1985-1987, up to the early 1990s) but not much more, and the lack of collectors makes also difficult for us to trade and/or sell to each other here.

 

I always insist on how good it is to get the original edition of some work, especially if you understand the language (I have a number of collectible french comics in my collection, even if I don’t read french but I can get more or less the meaning, here and there I love to have first editions).

 

Hey, you have traveled Italy more than myself, anyway!

I have never actually been to Florence, and not even Rome (I just visited briefly a part of Vatican City) and of course no Naples and Pompei. And no Assisi…

 

Marco is from up north, norther than me, in one of the most beatiful cities of Italy.

[Ken Aldred]

Would it be more cost-effective for you to purchase books from England? There are some great reputable dealers there...start with flaming_telepath here on the boards.

 

A very good suggestion to someone from mainland Europe. Although you might be concerned about extra shipping charges, much more importantly you won't have any pain and remorse to deal with regarding the quality of the books because Nick's an extremely tight grader. This sounds exactly like what you're looking for in this situation.

[vaillant]

I have praised Nick "ad nauseam" with Marco… it‘s just a question of time…

[Erndog]

Hi Ern,

that is simply because collecting of original editions never really took off here. It bloomed a bit during the period when the books were no longer published in italian editions (1985-1987, up to the early 1990s) but not much more, and the lack of collectors makes also difficult for us to trade and/or sell to each other here.

 

I always insist on how good it is to get the original edition of some work, especially if you understand the language (I have a number of collectible french comics in my collection, even if I don’t read french but I can get more or less the meaning, here and there I love to have first editions).

 

Hey, you have traveled Italy more than myself, anyway!

I have never actually been to Florence, and not even Rome (I just visited briefly a part of Vatican City) and of course no Naples and Pompei. And no Assisi…

 

Marco is from up north, norther than me, in one of the most beatiful cities of Italy.

 

 

While I enjoyed them all, I think Florence was my favourite city!

 

Whereabouts are you from? And Marco?

 

I wanted to go to an AS Roma game while in Rome but our schedules didn't align. I really liked the fast pace nature of Rome, and there was a ton to see and do. But then I also enjoyed the "farm" like atmosphere of Tuscany. Actually had dinner on a farm and winery. Very cool.

 

Are there any shops currently that have modern books? In English? Or do you have to rely on the Internet or somewhere to get trades?

[vaillant]

Florence is wonderful, and also the place more strictly connected with historical italian comics publishing in Italy (publisher Nerbini started to publish Mickey Mouse in 1932, losing it slightly afterwards, and american syndicated strips in 1934, causing a "revolution").

 

I am from Modena, and Marco is from Torino. I have been to Torino only once but I absolutely love it…

 

Roma is a unique city, but in some parts also left by itself with not much care: when I was in pilgrimage in Vatican City I noticed dirt all around the streets…

My summer seaside vacations have always been in Tuscany. (thumbs u

 

There are some shops which import american books and also do subscriptions, but as I explained there aren’t much collectors.

For example, my friends – which have a comics-related toys shop and are official importers of McFarlane toys merchandise – do not have much movement on comics themselves. I actually subscribed from a few titles from their store but they do not bag the comics and I am tired to get copies in VFNM or worse so I was trying to find a solution for the very few modern books I pick…