Were there duplicates in the White Mountain collection?

[fantastic_four]

Has anyone else seen duplicates from the White Mountain collection? A year or so ago I bought this:

Click for larger image

Now I just noticed this in the CGC Gallery:http://photobank.ngccoin.com/cgcgallery/FantasFourAnnual%231%2D9%2E0High%2Ejpg

[ericc123]

not claiming to be an expert on pedigree books or anything but I guess based on the evidence you've presented that YES there are duplicates in the White Mountain Pedigree. That sort of suprises me to because I've heard that the White Mountain books are the MIile Highs of the Silver Age.

 

Ericc123

[fantastic_four]

Well either that, or one of them is mislabelled.

[ArAich]

My gut tells me that it is probably a duplicate since it is a #1 issue and those are the ones that us collectors have a tendancy to buy duplicates of....

[greggy]

Well, it could be mislabelled because the one that is not yours looks more like a classic White Mountain copy with the year penned on the front cover!

[supapimp]

i think the submitter who turned in your copy lied to CGC about the pedigree, usually white mountain's have the 63 written on the cover. maybe robert storms would know more about this topic

[fantastic_four]

Usually they do, but I've seen a few White Mountain annuals without the cover writing; makes sense since the year is already on there. Hard to say though.

[blowout]

JFYI, not that this proves anything one way or another. I have several White Mountain books and they all have the characteristic writing on the cover.

[doc_sampson-migration]

i believe the white mountains had dupes on quite a few numbers

 

u should call jerry weist- hes the guy who discovered the collection

 

to correct u eric c, the WM's are not the milhe highs of the silver age, to quote cgc, " the pacific coasts are the mile highs of the silver age"

 

i would argue the western penns are the mile highs of the silver age

 

btw, whats your email? id like to send u a scan

[fantastic_four]

Do you have any double-sized or Annual White Mountains? Back when I bought the FF Annual 1, I remember thinking to myself that I had seen another WM without the writing on the cover, but I can't remember which issue it was now. I'm thinking Strange Tales Annual 2, but I could be wrong.

[aardvark88]

Wait a minute, I thought I had the Wht Mtn FF Ann 1? Triples? Mine is raw with o/w pgs but has the official 63 code in blue ink on front cover. The big time San Diego dealer I bought it from purchased it directly from an early Sotheby's auction when the Wht Mtns were being dispersed.

Does the code prove the pedigree in this case? Would be at least cgc 8.5 or 9.0 compared to your 2 pics.

[fantastic_four]

Where's the 63? I see a 6-31, and you can tell the handwriting style is different from the one on CGC's gallery. The one on CGC's gallery looks very consistent with the other years I've seen marked on White Mountains, but the 6-31 on your copy looks like different handwriting. Also, I think the original owner wrote the year very close to where the issue number is; I don't know if he was totally consistent with that, but the copies I've seen exhibited that trait.

[Moriarty]

FF,

 

Your second scan has all the hallmarks of a true White Mountain copy with consistent writing style on cover to the ones in my own collection and from ones I've seen in dealers inventory. I may be wrong, but I've never come across a WM copy with AD placed anywhere else other than on the cover before.

[fantastic_four]

Matt Nelson's web site says that many of the White Mountains have an arrival date on the first page. I just looked back at a few scans I have saved of some White Mountains (the FF 2 and 5 that sold at the same time as the Annual 1 I bought), and they all had arrival dates written on the first page.

[blowout]

Do you have any double-sized or Annual White Mountains?

 

No I don't. You may be right in your assumption that they didn't note the year on the annuals as it is already printed on the cover. I guess we need to see some more examples.

Have you tried posing this question in the ask CGC forum?

[fantastic_four]

Not until you asked, but I just did.

[greggy]

OK, I went back and reviewed my old Sotheby's catalogs and noticed the following:

 

1) In the 1991 catalog, a Fantastic Four annual 1 was sold in a lot along with Amazing Spider-man 8, FF 2 and 5, and Strange Tales 110, 119, and 127.

 

I did notice that in a seperate X-men lot, there is no date initialled on the X-men 1. The other keys in this auction, Amazing Spider-man 1, Hulk 1, and FF5 do have the year initialled on the front cover.

 

2) In the 1993 catalog, the FF1 is in one lot and FF 2 to 10 is included in another lot. As most of the White Mountains were consigned by the original owner instead of by Jerry Weist after he bought it from the owner, this indicates that there may be doubles as a 2 and 5 was sold in the 1991 catalog. Also, the FF 3 pictured does not have the inked year on the front cover.

 

Also, there was a huge rung of FF comprising numbers 11-21, 24-38, 41-43, 45-48, 50, 53, 55, 56, 58, 59, 61, 61, 67-69, 71 AND a FF annual 1!

 

In addition, there was a big Strange Tales run that included all 3 numbers sold in the 1991 catalog.

 

And...another lot which proves that there were doubles in the White Mountain collection includes FF 4, 13, and 112. The 4 and 13 were also in the big lot. Also, it shows that there are 2 copies of Marvel Team-up 1!

 

Hopes this helps!

 

P.S. I just looked at the Tales of Suspense run and it included 2 copies each of 49 to 54!

[fantastic_four]

Thanks greggy!!

 

I suspect I bought the one from the 1991 auction. I bought mine from a MastroNet auction, and they were selling an FF 2 and 5 at the same time, which jibes with your account of what was sold at the 1991 Sotheby's.

[greggy]

Well, I figured that I would make at least one informative post per week.

 

Those old Sotheby's were great for reference on this run, as the major titles were sold through them. Some keys such as Spidey 14 were missing so it may have sold privately!

 

I don't follow Marvels that much but has the other low numbers of the major titles other than AF 15 and FF 1 shown up for sale or at auction much?

[aardvark88]

Your Wht Mtn arrival date is written Sep '63. The code on my FF Ann #1 6-31 is a messily written 63 #1 on cover. Possibly the annual was released in summer June 31/63 with an extraordinary long 3 month shelf life to match your Wht Mtn date code. However, there are only 30 days in June.

Will agree the digits penned on the front cvr are larger than what is normally coded on FF 1 Wht Mtn that I saw 3x. Think blazingbob still has this key in his collection.