The Ultimate Dennis the Menace Thread 3 3

[ComicBookGuy]

In 1961, the Dennis the Menace Fan Club began, sponsored by Kellogg's. Here's an ad from the back of a box of Rice Krispies:

 

[BillyBatson4360]

Man that stuffed doll looks familiar. I'm not really sure if my mom ever made me one of those, but it rang a bell somewhere in the dim, dark recesses of my mind. Thanks, Joe!

 

When you were talking to Bob Beerbohm, did you happen to discuss the Overstreet pricing on the early issues of Dennis? As we have noted (and as we have actually experienced as buyers and sellers), these early issues are trading at much higher values than the Guide currently lists.

 

I'd also like to know how the Guide sets a value for those issues that trade so rarely - like Dennis the Menace # 1.

 

Personal aside for Wiseguy - do you have or do you know anyone who has any samples of the work your father did on the Yogi Bear strip?

[Wiseguy-migration]

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Personal aside for Wiseguy - do you have or do you know anyone who has any samples of the work your father did on the Yogi Bear strip?

 

 

 

No, I don't have anything in the way of Yogi Bear.

Most of my fathers original things are out there blowing in the wind.

Maybe some day.

On another note, I have discovered that my father was an architect in his early years.

There are a couple of houses in my area that were done by AW.

 

JRW

[ComicBookGuy]

Bill, I talked with Bob about a lot of things but not really the pricing of Dennis books in the guide. The question you raise is a good one, but I rarely think about comic prices, so it was not really on my mind. I have his email if you want it. He's writing a book about the history of comics, and I was telling him about many of the Dennis hardback compilations. When he sees me he always knows I'm looking for Dennis stuff, so we talked about that then general stuff. Believe it or not, even some topics that had nothing to do with Dennis. I can only imagine what a nice copy of Dennis #1 would go for. One day maybe we'll find out.

 

JRW, you mentioned earlier you were thinking of attending the San Diego Comic Con. I'm wondering if you went. Also, do you have any pics of those houses your dad designed? If so, you know we'd love to see them! I'm also looking forward to any other articles or pictures you have to share - as always!

 

I posted an ad for the Dennis the Menace Fan Club last night. These ads are often very useful in establishing what products are available, when they're released, and even what they're made of (e.g., the dolls). The fan club ad shows that members received four items: a pin, a membership card, a fan club certificate, and a picture of Jay North as Dennis. I've seen the fan club set on eBay go for as high as $200 and for as low as $20. It doesn't appear too often, and more often than not it appears one piece at a time. I have only the photo and certificate to post at this time. Here is the photo, with writing as a pre-print, not an original signature:

 

[ComicBookGuy]

And here is a copy of the fan club certificate. The two items I have I believe are the hardest of the four to find. The others turn up more frequently so I have not made them as much of a priority to find.

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Now here's something interesting. Notice the number on the upper-right-hand corner of my certificate. It's different from the one on the certificate posted below, which I downloaded from a website. Does this mean that there were over 300,000 members of this fan club? Even though our thread here is establishing and documenting Dennis's incredible popularity during the 1950s to 1970s, I doubt that that many kids would be in a Dennis fan club. But it would be interesting to see what other numbers are on other certificates in the future to try to determine how many kids may have been members.

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Here's a Dennis the Menace Sunday from February 23rd, 1958. I finally got over to where I have these stored and found about 40 from the 1950s, and about 20 from the 1970s. Until I buy a legal-sized scanner, breaking these up into four parts is the best I can do. Here is scan 1 of 4:

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Scan 2 of 4:

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Scan 3 of 4:

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Scan 4 of 4:

 

 

The art on this is very tight, and my first guess would be Al Wiseman is the artist, or possibly Ketcham. We've all commented before on how similar their two styles are during the mid-1950s. I think it's too early for Lee Holley. I love the "smoke" effect as Dennis runs, and I don't think I've seen so many question marks in so few panels before. Overall I see this as a typical 1950s Dennis, with Dennis being a menace with much more edge than he would have in later years as his image softened. It's really a shame these Sundays are rarely, if ever, reprinted.

[BillyBatson4360]

It certainly has the look of Wiseman - Holley would have been my second guess. It makes me impatient for the Fantagraphics book. Are they simply reprinting daillies or will Sundays be included as well?

 

Also, I love that Dennis is still in his truly "menacing" mode!

[Jon-migration]

The Fantagraphics series is sadly just doing the dailies.

 

The "smoke effect" is, I assume, supposed to be dust kicked up by Dennis' running.

 

Dennis #36 should be posted by me on ABPC tomorrow. Sorry for missing a couple of weeks with my Monday Menaces.

 

Jon

[Wiseguy-migration]

That Sunday strip sure looks like AW to me.

Particularly the Margaret. Thoses hair curls.

A lot of detail lines common with AW.

 

That's my vote, but don't hold me to it, unless I can see the originals.

 

JRW

[ComicBookGuy]

I agree with you guys that it looks like the master, at least Dennis and Margaret do. There is something un-Al-Wiseman-like about it, though, and I couldn't put my finger on it, but looking at it closer, I noticed the backgrounds were not the finely-drawn, detailed backgrounds AW did. I wonder if he just drew the characters and an assistant did the backgrounds. All just speculation.

 

I received an interesting email this morning. As I've mentioned before, 1970s Dennis artist Frank Hill has visited this thread, as has current Dennis artist Ron Ferdinand. Fred Hembeck also is a regular reader and has us linked on his site. I am looking forward to the day when they post. Well, the email I received was from Malcolm Ater, Jr., the son of the man who wrote and produced two of the Dennis giveaways. We wrote back and forth today, and he gave me permission to print his first email, which follows. I look forward to hearing further from Malcolm and hope he feels welcome to post here:

 

Hi ComicBookGuy,

 

I came across a posting you did about my father, Malcolm Ater, who's known as the father of political comics. I think you also referred to him as the man behind the Dennis the Menace giveaways. You're right. My Dad often said the Dennis the Menace Takes a Poke at Poison was either the largest or second largest produced comic in history (25+ million from 1961-1992). I have that book along with Dennis the Menace Coping with Family Stress. I also have the original artwork for both comics, along with the Printer's Film and negatives, and color proofs. Both comics were done in English and Spanish, and I have both versions. I also have the original -script for Taking a Poke at Poison, which includes handwritten corrections by both my father and Hank Ketcham to be sure the dialouge was consistent with the way Dennis would talk. The -script also contains a little doodle of Dennis that Hank Ketcham had apparently drawn as he went over the -script. I also have the original contract between Field Newspaper Syndicate giving my father the right to produce the Dennis the Menace comics, with my father getting 50% of the net profits and Hank and the syndicate each getting 25%. I have just started selling my Dad's collection (he had tons of memorabilia ranging from mint comics he produced to original art and correspondence, mostly with politicians.) So far I have sold 18 of my Dad's comics on eBay since May (and 2 others he had in his collection but didn't produce). I only put up 2 or 3 of his original comics each week (he was the largest producer of educational, promotional, and political comics in U.S. history). I sell under the name malcomics and my comics can be found by doing a search under "giveaway" comics. I have 2 comics up this week if you want to check them out (Al Loveland for U.S. Senate and From Ball Game to Ball Room). Would you, or do you know some collectors, that would be interested in the Dennis the Menace artwork, scripts, etc? ... Thanks!

 

Malcolm Ater, Jr. (malcomics)

[Jon-migration]

I posted Dennis #36 on Monday and am posting Dennis #65 today. If anyone has that I coudl use a scan of the first page of "Pitter Patter Painter and the puzzle page on its back.

 

Jon

[StevenR-migration]

just to note that the 1980 Dennis the Menace and the Bible Kids were drawn by Bill Williams, who was the regular Dennis comic book artist at the time (Williams had a comic book and strip career from the mid 40s to the Marvel Dennis comics).

 

Owen Fitzgerald - moved over from DC to take over DTM from Wiseman.

I particuarly like Fitzgerald's mid 40s work for the Sangor Shop

 

Lastly, some of the Dell material credited to Al Wiseman is possibly that of Lynn Karp - who when he was inked by one of the regular Western Pub guys, made him look very much like Wiseman -- and for years I thought it was. Karp is another guy who started doing comic books in the mid40s - he is generally overshadowed by the fame of his brothers. Karp actually assitated Wiseman at one time - and has his name on the cover with all the other names that Wiseman did.

 

steven rowe

[Bunky Brian]

Thanky You,

Brian

[ComicBookGuy]

just to note that the 1980 Dennis the Menace and the Bible Kids were drawn by Bill Williams, who was the regular Dennis comic book artist at the time (Williams had a comic book and strip career from the mid 40s to the Marvel Dennis comics).

 

Owen Fitzgerald - moved over from DC to take over DTM from Wiseman.

I particuarly like Fitzgerald's mid 40s work for the Sangor Shop

 

Lastly, some of the Dell material credited to Al Wiseman is possibly that of Lynn Karp - who when he was inked by one of the regular Western Pub guys, made him look very much like Wiseman -- and for years I thought it was. Karp is another guy who started doing comic books in the mid40s - he is generally overshadowed by the fame of his brothers. Karp actually assitated Wiseman at one time - and has his name on the cover with all the other names that Wiseman did.

 

steven rowe

 

Steven, welcome to the boards!

 

You clearly have a lot of background knowledge about the artists and comics we've been discussing. As I'm sure you read here, there is very little specific information around about Dennis artwork. I am certainly curious what the source of your information is and definitely look forward to hearing any other information you feel like sharing.

 

Joe

[BillyBatson4360]

StevenR-

 

First of all, welcome to the board!

 

Second, you mention Dell material credited to Wiseman.

 

What material?

 

And is any of it actually Wiseman?

[StevenR-migration]

My source for artist ID? the main one is the eyeballs ---

that and studying artists styles....

sometimes its easy... like Bill Williams - his Dennis the Meance and The Bible Kids #7 looks just like the other Dennis material he was doing...

 

Oh, heres a story told back in 1981, Marvel's editorial staff knew they had gotten the rights to do the Dennis book, when Bill Williams came in to pick up his asignment from them. No idea if this is really true, its just what was reported back in 81....

My notes indicate Williams started with either issue 119 or 120 (1972)

He had been working for Gold Key prior to that, He did Dennis to the end (except for 146), As far as I know he never signed any of his Dennis work (his signature is on his Marvel and Dell work).

 

Owen Fitzgerald was working for DC prior to taking over Dennis with #47 (December 1960). - if you have #61, you'll see his name as the rider of a horse (hope I have the story right), he left in 1972, to be replaced by Williams. I know Fitzgerald did a story or so for Marvel around that time (inked by Scott Shaw! so you wont be able to see his inking style!) He did "Goes to Camp". While Fitzgerald was working for DC and Marvel, he was living in California. Mark Evanier first mentioned OF as a Dennis artist to me, back in the late 1970s, but we didnt have the same comics back then, so I had to link OF's style to Dennis books -- I recall when I found this out, having a huge lightbulb go off - saying "wow, he did alot didnt he". This came up in the pages of CAPA-alpha and some other fanzines of the time.

 

Frank Hill did

Dennis in the middle 1960s-middle 70s, the story in 146 has his name on it.but youll find most of his stories in the bonus magazine series.

 

as for Wiseman at Dell, I recall folks talking about this in the 1980s-1990s, and I misidentified a few too - but as far as I can see (and I havent seen them all) ALL of the Dell material was actually by Lynn Karp (whose name is on a Wisemen cover)

 

Steven Rowe, former associate editor: whos who of american comic books, now lazy bum