The Silence of the Avengers 2!!!

[hammer-migration]

Avengers 2

 

Scissor Trimmed on the right edge with such a vengeance that you can still hear the book screaming right through the slab!!! The World's smallest Avengers 2 and the only #2 with "Phantom" limb pain!!!

[fantastic_four]

How can you tell for sure? It is definitely 1/16" narrower than say, this one:

 

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/good_deal_comics/av2_ss.jpg

 

But as you've pointed out in another thread, Marvel often had variances in their cut dimensions in the 60s. There's a very subtle angle cut like this: \ , but this too is common. The second example I linked to above has a similar angle cut.

[ninanina]

Hammer,

 

Ya' gotta realize that CGC had this book in their hands. They tasted it, they smelled it, they touched it, got to look at all the pages by what I suspect were several people.

 

You see this thing on a sell-site and suggest it's trimmed.

 

Maybe, but you really have to give the benefit of the doubt to CGC, hmmmmm?

[aardvark88]

D'oh. If Cgc states it is blue label, it must be? Borock hath decreed it. Make it so, true believer.

[COI]

With all due respect, this attitude can be very dangerous. I'm not sure if Hammer is right or not because I haven't held this book in my hands. But you cannot put total blind faith into one company, as they are just another's opinions. Granted, a very educated opinion, but still an opinion.

 

I'm surprised that in the time you've been here, you haven't learn to question the "all knowing" CGC?

[ninanina]

Not putting blind faith in CGC at all here, it's just that we have one opinion based on a scan and another based on looking at the entire comic.

 

CGC can miss restoration.

 

It's difficult to grade a comic based on a scan.

 

Actually, I agree with your points. The only thing I was saying is that CGC had more to work with in giving the comic the grade they did. Not saying the comic isn't clipped, just not willing to accept it is based on the scan.

[aardvark88]

#2 looks clipped. Surprised the book sold for so much. Sold my Av #2 cgc 7.5 for about $216 last yr. Had to relist it. Tough book to sell.

[hammer-migration]

Like I've said before, if every lawyer's case and courtroom performance were flawless (the DA AS WELL as the defense attorney) every trial would end in a deadlock.

Whether grading or performing any other service, no one sees everything and reaches the same findings of perfection in judgement each and every time. Nobody catches EVERYTHING all the time, from the the most advanced professional grader to the guy sitting for the first time with an Overstreet guide, trying to grade some books that his uncle just gave him. Tolerances of size have nothing to do with this Avengers 2. That is just NOT a Marvel factory machinery cut on the right edge. Marvel was NOT factory cutting books individually on a paper cutter with a scissors type tool. Has anyone here with a comic shop ever had anyone bring them a box of comics in low grade, obviously just found, fresh from an attic , garage, or basement, that exhibited a right edge like that Avengers 2???

[ninanina]

Hammer, don't know if this is conclusive or not, but the comic appears to be 1/8" wider at the bottom than at the top. ( A definite difference you can actually measure with a ruler) Also, the edge of the pages appear to get a bit wider the further down the edge you go. So, you might have something here. Please disregard my earlier post on this. I'm sideing with you base on what I can SEE.

[fantastic_four]

The bottom being wider than the top is what I meant by the book having an angle cut...but this is somewhat common on Silver Marvels. The second #2 I linked to above has this exact same trait you just described.

 

Can anyone describe what it is about that right edge that looks out of the ordinary? Hammer said it looks trimmed with scissors, but I haven't been able to pick up on the physical traits which communicate that.

[hammer-migration]

Look at the first 3 inches of the right edge from the top down towards the bottom (look at how IRREGULAR the first three inches of the top right edge is cut...the bevel of the cut twisting back and forth/deforming). The book was placed on the bed of a paper cutter (one of those small metal tables with a 12 inch long blade on the right that is fixed on one end by a rivit assembly and swings up and down). The book was placed face up, in reading position, up against the open blade where the swivel was positioned at the top conner. The blade bit in to the comic MORE at the top than the bottom of the book as the pressure of the downward stroke inched the book to the left against the pressure of the scissoring cut. This was obviously cut with a SCISSORING mechanism rather than a blade, dull or otherwise, being dragged along the perimeters, as the Marvel machinery was designed.

[hammer-migration]

paper cutter

 

Here's the type of mechanism that trimmed that Avengers 2.

[sborock]

Marvel's printing and quality control at that period of time was horrendous. Any legitimate dealer will tell you this. Many comics of the same issue were cut in different ways. Most people in our hobby can't tell if a comic is trimmed unless they take it out of a holder, let alone from a scan of a comic in a holder.

 

There is a reason people point out things like this and there is a reason people put up un-ceritified "high grade" comics on ebay that sell for 25% of what they would get if they were certified. Think about it or ask other board members. Even collector's and dealer's who don't agree with having a third party grade their comics, use CGC because buyers want to eliminate more of the uncertainty and reduce some of their risk when buying on the internet.

 

[ericc123]

"There is a reason people point out things like this and there is a reason people put up un-ceritified "high grade" comics on ebay that sell for 25% of what they would get if they were certified".

 

Dear God this can't be good. I think it may be hammer time now. You might want to stay away from this thread for a looooong time now

 

Ericc123

[OldGuy]

Have you seen ninanina's sig? It says "Yes, I have a FF #1 and I don't care if it is restored." You may be trying to convert the wrong person here Steve.

[sborock]

That was for the thread, not just ninanina, we don't need to "convert" anyone. There is nothing wrong with restored comics, I have said so on many occasions, but there is something VERY WRONG with NOT DISCLOSING IT to a buyer. Even CGC's "blue" labels state when a very minor amount of color touch or glue is on a comic. Way too many "raw" auctions out there with no disclosure what so ever.

[Bugaboo-migration]

Dear God this can't be good. I think it may be hammer time now. You might want to stay away from this thread for a looooong time now

 

Yep......I'm ducking for cover.

 

How come you can never find a good boulder to hide behind when you need one?

[greggy]

Just go back in the gopher hole that you have been hiding for the last while!

[Bugaboo-migration]

Hey.......shut yer friggin' pie hole......you've been in there with me, ya stinkin' pervert.

[OldGuy]

I couldn't agree more when it comes to undisclosed resto. I don't mind restoration in some cases myself when I know about it. I was just finding irony in what you were saying and what was in ninanina's sig. I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I hope that when I am being jerk it's much more obvious.