Hard Boiled TPB Cover art by Darrow in HA Question?

[Overthetopinc]

Hello,

I got a question. Is the auction here....

 

Hard Boiled TPB Cover Art in HA

 

The actual original art used for the tpb? I ask because I never know with Darrow originals. I notice some differences right away from the published version. Notice the Hair of the the three ladies in the background. There are some other subtle differences not to mention the tpb is a wrap around. I was hoping to get some input from any experts on board here.

thanks,

Matthew

 

 

[Overthetopinc]

No darrow people here? I was thinking of bidding on this piece but only if it is the original for the cover. Any help would be appreciated.

[Mighty Hal]

Not a Darrow collector, and I've never seen the actual TPB (except now, online). HA claims its the cover, though, and they offer an "inquire" option on their site. You'll see it below the description. Give it a shot and see what they say.

[vodou]

Is this on vellum? There is some concern with Darrow's earlier vellum work among collectors. Basically the pencils were used as the springboard for the ink on vellum and there could definitely be more than one. It's an old animator trick, the same as lightboxing. Darrow could try different things out, go back and redo it as a commission for a fan, for sale at shows or in a gallery, whatever. Not necessarily a nefarious situation but if that logo was slapped on by the Donnelly's...caveat emptor

[vodou]

Yep, there it is in the description: "The cover is produced in ink on vellum". You'd want Geoff to confirm this is the actual piece that was shot (scanned, whatever) and published by DH, otherwise it could be anything, and probably not what you want.

[Overthetopinc]

Good idea vodou. I just dont see how a wrap around cover would be done like this but with the vellum treatment he does who knows. Maybe I can find a way to contact Geoff. Thanks!

[Nexus]

I know Geof and just asked him for some clarification about this piece. He says that it was a cover for a foreign edition that didn't want the wraparound. It is not the cover for the US edition. Hence, the differences between the two. I'll let Heritage know to amend the description. Hope this helps!

[Nexus]

Is this on vellum? There is some concern with Darrow's earlier vellum work among collectors. Basically the pencils were used as the springboard for the ink on vellum and there could definitely be more than one. It's an old animator trick, the same as lightboxing. Darrow could try different things out, go back and redo it as a commission for a fan, for sale at shows or in a gallery, whatever. Not necessarily a nefarious situation but if that logo was slapped on by the Donnelly's...caveat emptor

 

Geof once told me that one reason he does this is because he can't ink directly over his pencils. He's got a heavy hand and it leaves a groove in the paper when he pencils, making it difficult to ink. Just a bit of trivia.

[vodou]

Is this on vellum? There is some concern with Darrow's earlier vellum work among collectors. Basically the pencils were used as the springboard for the ink on vellum and there could definitely be more than one. It's an old animator trick, the same as lightboxing. Darrow could try different things out, go back and redo it as a commission for a fan, for sale at shows or in a gallery, whatever. Not necessarily a nefarious situation but if that logo was slapped on by the Donnelly's...caveat emptor

 

Geof once told me that one reason he does this is because he can't ink directly over his pencils. He's got a heavy hand and it leaves a groove in the paper when he pencils, making it difficult to ink. Just a bit of trivia.

 

Again "Not necessarily a nefarious situation" but I was disappointed about many years ago to get a sweet robot piece, huge and on vellum, and then see exactly (well close enough if you know what I mean) the same thing appear in three other collector's galleries within a year. The price was fine (it actually seemed light at the time and makes sense if there's more than one output from the same pencil 'starter'), and the illusion of exclusivity was all mine...there was no subterfuge. It my fault for not understanding Geoff's process better. Or even asking. Not Geoff's fault for having that process!

 

Now re-sellers down the road, that's where things can get tricky if there isn't disclosure, letting naive folks believe what they will (knowing lies of omission thing here). That's where you can get some of that nefarious, ya know? That's why you have to be careful of Heritage (and the other blind auction houses too), where you wouldn't generally touch anything of the Donnelly's with a ten-foot pole (yes, that's me!), the Houses shield that information from you and you can get into situations you swore you never would. Luckily, to the trained eye, most of their 'mess' sort of stands out like a sore thumb. Why, it's like a signature of sorts

[Overthetopinc]

Thanks guys!! I am so glad I came to the list with this question. Still an amazing example but I really am digging this piece and just wanted to make sure I know what I am dealing with. Thanks Nexus and Vodou!

[rotembk]

And the item description was indeed updated with the information Felix provided.

[Unovis]

 

Again "Not necessarily a nefarious situation" but I was disappointed about many years ago to get a sweet robot piece, huge and on vellum, and then see exactly (well close enough if you know what I mean) the same thing appear in three other collector's galleries within a year. The price was fine (it actually seemed light at the time and makes sense if there's more than one output from the same pencil 'starter'), and the illusion of exclusivity was all mine...there was no subterfuge. It my fault for not understanding Geoff's process better. Or even asking. Not Geoff's fault for having that process!

 

 

I own a few Darrow pieces and have never heard of there being more than one ink in existence for a penciled page that he created. I can certainly understand it can be done as I own some Cerebus originals that Dave and Gerhard would photocopy and take to conventions and draw over. That Darrow has made more than a single ink per pencil is definitely something I will research if I purchase some of his art in the future.

 

But that also begs the question as to why his pencils are not a bit more desirable. I am sure he would not have done the pencils more than once even if he did end up inking it a bit. So the pencils should have a rarity of their own.

 

 

[vodou]

But that also begs the question as to why his pencils are not a bit more desirable. I am sure he would not have done the pencils more than once even if he did end up inking it a bit. So the pencils should have a rarity of their own.

Says who? Geoff's pencils are super desirable to me (as you can imagine), just haven't gone after any yet!

[sierackij]

But that also begs the question as to why his pencils are not a bit more desirable. I am sure he would not have done the pencils more than once even if he did end up inking it a bit. So the pencils should have a rarity of their own.

Says who? Geoff's pencils are super desirable to me (as you can imagine), just haven't gone after any yet!

The market does seem to favor Darrow's inks over his pencils. I recall seeing the inks for one piece sell for a little over $4k while the pencils go unsold sitting at $1500 for that same page.

 

The way I think of it is with his process the pencils are kind of like a really nice prelim. The inked page is the finished product, and thus the more desirable of the two.

[Eric Seffinga]

I've found Geoff is more likely to reuse an image featuring a character that he had a hand as being the original creator of than one he isn't. I sold Scott Eder a Darrow piece of Shade the Changing man done for one of the Vertigo pinup books in the 90s. It was so distinctive and clearly a Shade (not a super popular character) doing something very "Shade", I've never seen him tackle that image again. I always chalked it up to lack of interest in the character = not really possible to rework or reformat into anything else.

 

I have however seen a LOT of repeat drawings over the years. Many based on published Darrow works, like individual characters and poses off well known covers. And other surreal pieces reused and recycled. I had a piece a number of years back of Big Guy and Rusty filling up a GIGANTIC car at a gas station, with lots of frogs (I think with bombs on their backs) jumping out of it. And then imagine my surprise seeing that same image pop up published a year or two later, but instead of BG and Rusty, it was Morpheus and Delirium filling the same car with the same frogs hopping out. Tiny inking details were different, and the figures themselves totally different characters, but same positions and poses.

 

So nothing really surprises me regarding Darrow's drawings on either paper or vellum, on board in ink or pencil.

 

Not as much of his stuff on CAF as there once was, and I just did Big Guy for this little taste, but gives a little of the flavor of what I am speaking about though...

I've seen the same for Shaolin Cowboy and Hard Boiled characters as well. Not so much with other properties (Transmet and other Vertigo books, etc.)

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=53122&GSub=7335

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=800166&GSub=9904

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1187908&GSub=160764

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1087846&GSub=152863

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=698694&GSub=85430

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=570729&GSub=9552

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=433102&GSub=16329

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=205942&GSub=9552

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=658292&GSub=101233

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=219208&GSub=161722

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=146898&GSub=144264

[vodou]

Good work and analysis Eric. You put down what I meant but probably wasn't effectively getting across.

 

Geoff's stuff is not exact copies (like you get with guys that lightbox cover 'recreations'...over and over and over) but the same poses re-purposed, the same layouts re-used (but populated differently). That's what I meant by old animator's trick. It's no cheat, but it's not something we (comic art collectors) inherently expect. (Animation art collectors probably do!) If you don't ask (as I didn't) you'll probably get that surprise later that may leave you a bit less thrilled with a Darrow piece. Not the piece's fault, it didn't change, just your perception of how it "arrived" on that piece of vellum you're holding. Or as Felix points out, not just vellum works either.

 

I consider Geoff's pencils so tight...it's a no-brainer (now) what I would I prefer - for the same money. Imagine the DEAL the pencils are (imo) for much less money :)

 

Getting back to the beginning of this, according to Felix (via Geoff) and now Heritage...it IS a unique published Geoff Darrow. My original concern was that it was "sure it's a Darrow", but not necessarily published, not necessarily a cover, not necessarily much of anything more than inked vellum...and since we didn't know who the consignor was, only that there was a "add-on" logo (my phrasing)...it could come from a certain source I will not patronize. That source will add dummy trade dress wherever possible to add pseudo-cachet and bump the price. Any inked vellum Darrow that "looks" cover-ish would be a prime target to get relatively cheap, add that treatment and add a lot of money to a transaction. Any taint I put out there, please ignore, does not appear this piece has any sorts of those issues!

[sierackij]

 

Again "Not necessarily a nefarious situation" but I was disappointed about many years ago to get a sweet robot piece, huge and on vellum, and then see exactly (well close enough if you know what I mean) the same thing appear in three other collector's galleries within a year. The price was fine (it actually seemed light at the time and makes sense if there's more than one output from the same pencil 'starter'), and the illusion of exclusivity was all mine...there was no subterfuge. It my fault for not understanding Geoff's process better. Or even asking. Not Geoff's fault for having that process!

 

 

I own a few Darrow pieces and have never heard of there being more than one ink in existence for a penciled page that he created. I can certainly understand it can be done as I own some Cerebus originals that Dave and Gerhard would photocopy and take to conventions and draw over. That Darrow has made more than a single ink per pencil is definitely something I will research if I purchase some of his art in the future.

 

But that also begs the question as to why his pencils are not a bit more desirable. I am sure he would not have done the pencils more than once even if he did end up inking it a bit. So the pencils should have a rarity of their own.

 

 

LOVE this cover by the way. It's cool that you have both the pencils and inked page too.

[alxjhnsn]

I have one Geof piece - Gigantor & Astro Boy vs. Big Guy & Rusty I think it's really cool.

 

It's done on poster board and is huge. I assumed that there are pencils on it, but I need to go home and look. Can't imagine lightboxing this beast though.

 

 

It sort of looks like a OML for Tim Finney's piece

[Eric Seffinga]

Darrow likes Gigantor for sure, and who can blame him? Great stuff!

 

Another like Tim's....

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=993141

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/af/9c/13/af9c13c35924f1a1ae3814aa46ca7de9.jpg

 

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mAeDL77HvrB7uilKJfoTeLA.jpg

 

and an interesting variation...

 

http://www.scottedergallery.com/ebay/darrow-sc-gig-detail.jpg

 

Then Big Guy fights Ultraman...

http://thesecretheadquarters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rustyrobotfight.jpg

 

and Godzilla a bunch...

http://36.media.tumblr.com/cfdb0439be5beb2b5875f5770e621801/tumblr_mnvmnzDFVR1s4yfu7o1_1280.jpg

 

http://www.anthonyscomicbookart.com/Images/Category_2/subcat_821/IMG_5428.JPG

 

Personally, I've long suspected he enlarges (originally copies, now scans) of the original pencils (or inks) to different sizes and varies the angles and placements of the figures. mixes and matches. Prints out to different sizes and then inks. If you look at some of the pieces on CAF, the same images appear multiple times at different angles, and at differest sizes, with differing levels of detail. I've long thought it was known that he does this, and that he brings fresh inked pieces to shows to sell, or sells them through the various art dealers like Eder, who lists Shaolin Cowboy and Big guy pieces vs. (insert giant monster movie or robot here) on a fairly regular basis. Some seem a lot more one-off drawing than others.

 

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bb/04/78/bb04785536cf109ecf9f94dc5c8aa877.jpg

 

http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_14561/subcat_31592/darrow-bg-gz-detail.jpg

 

by the by, I am a big fan. So I'm not making fun at all.

[alxjhnsn]

Really interesting. I kinda sorta wished I'd asked him to work The Iron Giant into mine.