Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[Doktor]

As much as I'd love to also say that the PC changes to this movie were part of its undoing, I still think that's looking at the issue with far too big of a magnifying glass. I think the answer is still a lost simpler:

 

It's just not the FF. Sure, they might have similar powers & the same names, but the origin, how they look, the lack of costumes, the tone, the color palette (it looked like it was filmed with the blue-tinted cameras from CSI: New York), and yes... even the race of the characters and other things were changed to such a degree that it makes it just not the FF. Kind of like how it's not so much that Man of Steel was a bad movie as it just being a bad Superman movie. Except in this case, not only was it a bad FF movie, it was also just a bad movie.

 

And you can take the same criticisms of the FF and level them directly on Doom as well. He might have been named Doom, but nothing about the rest of him was very Doom-esque. His motivations, his look, his "powers" (why does Fox keep deciding that Doom is metal Elektro?), his costume, his personality (and why do they always make him whiney instead of just an egotistical jerk?) and all the rest.

 

I think this is a general rejection by consumers of unnecessary changes to otherwise perfectly interesting characters. Just stop screwing with things. Hollywood is kinda like Washington in that regard. They feel compelled to work on fixing and fixing things until they're broken.

[ComicConnoisseur]

One thing about this movie`s bad box office that not many have pointed out.

 

The FF reboot bad box office was, not only because it was a bad movie, but it was also a response to that in it was the fans saying don`t screw with our heroes no more.

People have grown tired of PC spoon.

Do you have any evidence of this? Maybe an article in variety? Or a study done to see why moviegoers skiped going that says that? Because all I've seen is backlash against a bad movie. Bad word of mouth and lack of studio confidence coupled with a bad story = bad movie. I don't know anyone that said "well everything makes if look terrible, but id still go see it if it wasn't that Johnny storm is black.

 

I, by myself, am a super small sample size, but.... This is the first Super Hero movie I've ever skipped. I skipped it "as a response to them messing with some of my beloved heroes". I took to facebook and pleaded with anyone I knew to skip the movie too.

 

If I did that, then I'm sure some other fans did that too.

That`s what happen. There was a historic backlash. The majority of people had enough.

At least I can say I saw this movie. A bunch of people won`t even acknowledge it.

I can`t blame them. They tried to take an iconic franchise and try to force their Hollywood/College PC image on the fans. It failed miserably.

The fans have spoken, and they told the PC Hollywood/college crowd to shove it.

(thumbs u

 

 

[jaybuck43]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

[thunsicker]

One thing about this movie`s bad box office that not many have pointed out.

 

The FF reboot bad box office was, not only because it was a bad movie, but it was also a response to that in it was the fans saying don`t screw with our heroes no more.

People have grown tired of PC spoon.

Do you have any evidence of this? Maybe an article in variety? Or a study done to see why moviegoers skiped going that says that? Because all I've seen is backlash against a bad movie. Bad word of mouth and lack of studio confidence coupled with a bad story = bad movie. I don't know anyone that said "well everything makes if look terrible, but id still go see it if it wasn't that Johnny storm is black.

 

I, by myself, am a super small sample size, but.... This is the first Super Hero movie I've ever skipped. I skipped it "as a response to them messing with some of my beloved heroes". I took to facebook and pleaded with anyone I knew to skip the movie too.

 

If I did that, then I'm sure some other fans did that too.

 

I also watch almost any superhero film and also skipped it. But that was because the word of mouth (and the rotten tomatoes score) let me know it was a bad film.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

[revat]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

you don't think its POSSIBLE that you're drawing too strong of conclusion about the ethnicity change here?

 

I'm guessing at LEAST 95% of Americans in the TARGET DEMO 15-39 give ZEERRRROOOOO efffffsss that they made the human torch black. Obviously the percentage is higher for older white males, and probably for people here on the forum who obviously like Fantastic Four more and remember a time when they were relevant.

 

And of those 5% (I'm being generous with the 5%) in the target demo, at least half of those people love comics so much they're probably going to see it anyways, if it was even remotely a watchable movie. BUT the amount of extra black people would get into the theatres to watch a black human torch would FAR FAR outweigh the number of viewers lost, both in and out of the target demo.

 

Provided it was an even remotely watchable movie.

 

The terrible reviews (and bad trailers) did it in. The difference in race accounted for a margin of error at best.

 

Do I have numbers to back this stuff up? I have something better, common sense.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

you don't think its POSSIBLE that you're drawing too strong of conclusion about the ethnicity change here?

 

I'm guessing at LEAST 95% of Americans in the TARGET DEMO 15-39 give ZEERRRROOOOO efffffsss that they made the human torch black. Obviously the percentage is higher for older white males, and probably for people here on the forum who obviously like Fantastic Four more and remember a time when they were relevant.

 

And of those 5% (I'm being generous with the 5%) in the target demo, at least half of those people love comics so much they're probably going to see it anyways, if it was even remotely a watchable movie. BUT the amount of extra black people would get into the theatres to watch a black human torch would FAR FAR outweigh the number of viewers lost, both in and out of the target demo.

 

Provided it was an even remotely watchable movie.

 

The terrible reviews (and bad trailers) did it in. The difference in race accounted for a margin of error at best.

 

Do I have numbers to back this stuff up? I have something better, common sense.

.

Common sense is not to mess with iconic heroes. If Fox had common sense they would have made a movie based on Jack Kirby and Stan Lee`s version, and not the PC progressive version.

If Fox went with the common sense version, than they wouldn`t have lost tons of money.

It`s about money. Bottom-line, and mainstream didn`t want the PC version.

 

Also, By changing his race they set the wheels in motion that this would not be accepted, just like when they announced Tonto would be played by a white man named Johnny Depp set the wheels in motion for a bad box office

.

Get ready for Akira to bomb because they are having white people play Asian characters.

Again whoever is making Akira is setting themselves up for a bad box office.

 

 

[Awax]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

[thunsicker]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

I've got to say. I think you'll lose a lot of people saying that Hulk Hogan was brought down by the PC Police.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

He said he was sorry. He shouldn`t be banished for saying a word.

Might I add when he said the word it was secretly videotaped amongst two other white people.

It wasn`t like he pointed his finger at someone black and called them that.

Even the Rock says Hulk Hogan isn`t racist.

 

PC people are dangerous because they think they are holier than everyone else, and have to show the rest of us the way. They think the rest of us can`t make decisions for ourselves. so they will tell us what words we can and cannot use.

 

Other people try to discuss their differences and make it work.

Not with PC people it`s their way or the highway.

 

 

[Bosco685]

 

Bert Blyleven

[ComicConnoisseur]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

I've got to say. I think you'll lose a lot of people saying that Hulk Hogan was brought down by the PC Police.

My point is people are now turning against this PC Police ideology. Fox didn`t get the memo. They still think it`s 2008, and America is in it`s hope and change mode. What was really popular back then isn`t as popular now. It`s kind of like hippies were real popular in the 1970s,but were out of style in the 1980s.

 

Fox misjudged the changing market.

FF bombed.

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

I've got to say. I think you'll lose a lot of people saying that Hulk Hogan was brought down by the PC Police.

My point is people are now turning against this PC Police ideology. Fox didn`t get the memo. They still think it`s 2008, and America is in it`s hope and change mode. What was really popular back then isn`t as popular now. It`s kind of like hippies were real popular in the 1970s,but were out of style in the 1980s.

 

Fox misjudged the changing market.

FF bombed.

 

Completely wrong.

 

Nick Fury was played by a black actor - made no difference to the success of the Avengers. And most of the Marvel movies have completely ignored much of the original stories Stan and Jack told. Made no difference.

 

FF failed because it was poorly thought out, poorly put together, and poorly executed. It was a disaster throughout the process.

 

Hulk Hogan's situation has nothing to do with this imaginary 'PC' Police - he referred to his girlfriend's boyfriend as a 'n-word', in a negative, and derogatory way, and got fired for it - he got what anyone working for a company and using a racial slur get - a boot out the door.

 

This imaginary 'PC Police' that everyone is 'tired' of... what exactly have they accomplished? What changes have they brought about that everyone wants to reverse?

 

 

[Davenport]

This imaginary 'PC Police' that everyone is 'tired' of... what exactly have they accomplished? What changes have they brought about that everyone wants to reverse?

Zis zeems xilly: Pronoun Usage

[Doktor]

The pronoun game is fun. If by fun, I mean something only marginally more pleasant than slamming my yang in a car door a half dozen times.

[revat]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

I've got to say. I think you'll lose a lot of people saying that Hulk Hogan was brought down by the PC Police.

My point is people are now turning against this PC Police ideology. Fox didn`t get the memo. They still think it`s 2008, and America is in it`s hope and change mode. What was really popular back then isn`t as popular now. It`s kind of like hippies were real popular in the 1970s,but were out of style in the 1980s.

 

Fox misjudged the changing market.

FF bombed.

 

Completely wrong.

 

Nick Fury was played by a black actor - made no difference to the success of the Avengers. And most of the Marvel movies have completely ignored much of the original stories Stan and Jack told. Made no difference.

 

FF failed because it was poorly thought out, poorly put together, and poorly executed. It was a disaster throughout the process.

 

Hulk Hogan's situation has nothing to do with this imaginary 'PC' Police - he referred to his girlfriend's boyfriend as a 'n-word', in a negative, and derogatory way, and got fired for it - he got what anyone working for a company and using a racial slur get - a boot out the door.

 

This imaginary 'PC Police' that everyone is 'tired' of... what exactly have they accomplished? What changes have they brought about that everyone wants to reverse?

 

 

I believe there's a PC police, but I've always thought it was people who want to protect the OVERLY sensitive (yes I know that can be subjective). No scorekeeping for kids soccer games, people who think everything is a hate crime (I didn't punch you because you of your skin color/sexual orientation, its because you were wearing sandals with socks), the people who think you have to be automatically ok with EVERY SINGLE non-traditional thing without a thought about the reasons or effects.

 

I just think that has very little to with the casting of Fantastic Four, which had very little do with the failure of the Fantastic Four. The dollar rules in Hollywood. They did what they thought would work based on DOLLARS, it spectacularly failed.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So if that's true why are Arrow and Flash such successes for WB? What with all their new characters and changes to canon and such.

Arrow or Flash wasn`t a PC change. People could accept it. In fact Arrow seems more modern than the comic book version.

Like I said this isn`t about right or wrong. It`s about people have gotten sick of the PC agenda shoved in their faces constantly.

Make all the iconic heroes gay, a different color or change their gender and the core audience will tune out. Money rules Hollywood.

 

My suggestion is make cool new heroes of diversity, but make them original characters.

People have gotten tired of this PC thing. Look at what happened to Hulk Hogan for saying a word years ago. He got erased from the WWE which he put on the map! For one unfortunate word they erased him from the history of WWE.

The PC thing has gotten out of control, and I am glad the mass audience responded in kind.

The Fantastic Four terrible box office showed that.

 

 

 

What word was that? Pancakes or something that just should not have been said, especially at that point in his life , and he deserves everything that happens to him.

 

I've got to say. I think you'll lose a lot of people saying that Hulk Hogan was brought down by the PC Police.

My point is people are now turning against this PC Police ideology. Fox didn`t get the memo. They still think it`s 2008, and America is in it`s hope and change mode. What was really popular back then isn`t as popular now. It`s kind of like hippies were real popular in the 1970s,but were out of style in the 1980s.

 

Fox misjudged the changing market.

FF bombed.

 

Completely wrong.

 

Nick Fury was played by a black actor - made no difference to the success of the Avengers. And most of the Marvel movies have completely ignored much of the original stories Stan and Jack told. Made no difference.

 

FF failed because it was poorly thought out, poorly put together, and poorly executed. It was a disaster throughout the process.

 

Hulk Hogan's situation has nothing to do with this imaginary 'PC' Police - he referred to his girlfriend's boyfriend as a 'n-word', in a negative, and derogatory way, and got fired for it - he got what anyone working for a company and using a racial slur get - a boot out the door.

 

This imaginary 'PC Police' that everyone is 'tired' of... what exactly have they accomplished? What changes have they brought about that everyone wants to reverse?

People are afraid to speak because they can get fired or ostracized.

I`m not talking about just the "N" word.

I`m talking most people are scared to even mention black, gay or feminist issues because they could be fired if subject is taken out of context.

A couple of times it`s been hinted at that I am racist in this thread, even though my daughter is half-black and my wife is black-Spanish.

So the PC police are out there. They will do anything to race bait to squash opposition.

Also with Nick Fury he is a minor character. Not many cared.

That`s like taking Jarvis and making him the Vision.

 

Johnny Storm was part of an iconic superhero family. They broke up the original Sue and Johnny Storm dynamic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

I just think that has very little to with the casting of Fantastic Four, which had very little do with the failure of the Fantastic Four. The dollar rules in Hollywood. They did what they thought would work based on DOLLARS, it spectacularly failed.

 

Bingo!

 

These same actors have delivered in other movies. It would appear from everything noted about F4, this was a mess between the director and the studio.

[jsilverjanet]

PC police have been notified

 

Also Hulk Hogan was not just saying a word it was the context in how he used the word

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Also the Miles Teller article probably didn't help much. Never a good thing when people are calling your lead actor an "A-Hole" a week or so before the release of the movie. But yea, Studio and Director (and writer, lets not let the writer off either) is who is responsible for this bomb.