Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[Aces]

This thread is stupid.

Batman vs Superman and Star Wars 7 will crush everything that came before and continue to rise the super hero - sci fi genre to new heights!

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The "sounding borderline racist" was regarding the people who just keep posting "OMG they made Johnny Storm black" and "how can they be related if they are different races?". If you want true to the source material, that is fine. Most of those people don't seem to be beating the dead horse.

 

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man. However, Johnny Storm is American. So what does that mean?

 

Oscar Pistorious is African. So is Charlize Theron. So is Nick Price. So what does that mean?

 

Answer: nothing. Just because Johnny is American doesn't mean anything, just like being African doesn't mean anything. There are black Africans, and white Africans, and Arab Africans and all other ethnicities, just like in America.

 

How is it any different from any of the Marvel studios movies that deviate from the source material? But then you make Johnny Storm black and somehow it's wrong to do? I've just seen too many comments that keep bringing up the fact they made him black.

 

That's right...because Johnny Storm isn't black. As I already said: it would be the same argument if they made him ethnic Korean, or ethnic Pakistani, or ethic Isreali. And it's the same argument if they made Black Panther ethnic English, or ethnic Japanese, or ethnic Portuguese, or Lebron James as Frodo, or Hans Zimmer as Psylocke.

 

That's not what the characters look like.

 

And it wouldn't bother me for a Korean man to be Superman. Why would an alien be white? That wouldn't necessitate being a caucasion. Maybe Clark Cho?

 

Because that's not Superman. That's someone else. Why would an alien by white? First, aliens don't actually exist, so why wouldn't they be white? Second, because that's how his creators created him.

 

If you want a Korean "Superman", create one. There/'s no one stopping anyone from doing that.

 

Yes. That's how he was created.

 

If you want a black human torch, create a new character, as Liam said. What's wrong with that?

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. I, and I suspect many others, would say the exact same thing if Storm were to be played by Jennifer Lawrence, or Cloak were to be played by Chris Hemsworth.

 

(Aside...can you imagine a C&D movie?? )

 

Nothing wrong with creating a black human torch either.

 

And setup Cloak and Dagger in the Spiderman movie. That would be awesome. And Chris Hemsworth couldn't be Cloak since he's already Thor. Hmm... How about Liam Hemsworth?

 

No. That wouldn't be Cloak.

 

It's called "respect for the characters as their creators intended them."

 

I mean, really, can you imagine a production of Roots or The Color Purple, with all white casts? Nobody would watch it.

[Bosco685]

I don't like that the torch was a human. I wanted him to be a living rotisserie chicken. tasty tasty chicken.

 

[Doktor]

I saw the Deadpool trailer, Not impressed. The suit looks amazing, the jokes are terrible and he's just another vigilante out for revenge. Usually all the terrible movies come out in January and February. Movies don't start getting good until around May

 

The Lego Movie was a February release. And while historically you're correct that Jan/Feb is the dumping ground for movies they have no faith in, it's becoming the time of year where you release movies that are good but might be a little quirky/untraditional or otherwise not be able to fight against other summer or Christmas release movies for movie-going dollars.

 

A movie like the Lego Movie was a quirky movie that could have either been a home run or a flop. It was a very different & unconventional movie. And as a result, WB released it at a time when they could market it unopposed & not have to fight against the next Fast & Furious movie (or whatever) for dollars or get it pigeonholed as "just a kids movie" or something. They only had to beat bad movies & had the chance to appeal to the adults that also wanted something fun to watch amid a bunch of other garbage.

 

I think Deadpool might be the same approach. Market an unconventional superhero release (R-rated, 4th wall breaking, etc) unopposed by the other summer fare because it might get lost in the shuffle otherwise & be a little too quirky for people to "give it a try" when it's competing against other more-traditional superhero/action/sci-fi summertime fare.

 

August was a dumping ground as well for the junk that studios didn't have faith in until GotG was released last year. Granted, this year we got FF, which totally fit the "traditional august release" model, but still.

[Prince Namor]

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man.

 

:gossip:There are plenty of White People of African descent. Roughly 9% of the Population of Africa.

[ComicConnoisseur]

An interesting article by Forbes on how the Fantastic Four movie bombing has Disney concerned about future Marvel movies.

 

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

The Fantastic Four is Disney`s nightmare!

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

 

The "sounding borderline racist" was regarding the people who just keep posting "OMG they made Johnny Storm black" and "how can they be related if they are different races?". If you want true to the source material, that is fine. Most of those people don't seem to be beating the dead horse.

 

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man. However, Johnny Storm is American. So what does that mean?

 

Oscar Pistorious is African. So is Charlize Theron. So is Nick Price. So what does that mean?

 

Answer: nothing. Just because Johnny is American doesn't mean anything, just like being African doesn't mean anything. There are black Africans, and white Africans, and Arab Africans and all other ethnicities, just like in America.

 

How is it any different from any of the Marvel studios movies that deviate from the source material? But then you make Johnny Storm black and somehow it's wrong to do? I've just seen too many comments that keep bringing up the fact they made him black.

 

That's right...because Johnny Storm isn't black. As I already said: it would be the same argument if they made him ethnic Korean, or ethnic Pakistani, or ethic Isreali. And it's the same argument if they made Black Panther ethnic English, or ethnic Japanese, or ethnic Portuguese, or Lebron James as Frodo, or Hans Zimmer as Psylocke.

 

That's not what the characters look like.

 

And it wouldn't bother me for a Korean man to be Superman. Why would an alien be white? That wouldn't necessitate being a caucasion. Maybe Clark Cho?

 

Because that's not Superman. That's someone else. Why would an alien by white? First, aliens don't actually exist, so why wouldn't they be white? Second, because that's how his creators created him.

 

If you want a Korean "Superman", create one. There/'s no one stopping anyone from doing that.

 

Yes. That's how he was created.

 

If you want a black human torch, create a new character, as Liam said. What's wrong with that?

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism. I, and I suspect many others, would say the exact same thing if Storm were to be played by Jennifer Lawrence, or Cloak were to be played by Chris Hemsworth.

 

(Aside...can you imagine a C&D movie?? )

 

Nothing wrong with creating a black human torch either.

 

And setup Cloak and Dagger in the Spiderman movie. That would be awesome. And Chris Hemsworth couldn't be Cloak since he's already Thor. Hmm... How about Liam Hemsworth?

 

No. That wouldn't be Cloak.

 

It's called "respect for the characters as their creators intended them."

 

I mean, really, can you imagine a production of Roots or The Color Purple, with all white casts? Nobody would watch it.

+ 1,000,000

[Doktor]

That's a really misleading article. It states some pretty obvious things as though they are profound "eureka!" moments (movies need to be good in order to be successful... oh really? I'm shocked by this), infers that critics suddenly are the voices of the masses just because even THEY can see when a bad movie is a bad movie these days, falls into the logical black hole of deeming every movie that's NOT a home run is a strikeout & ignores the idea of hitting singles (or doubles or triples, to continue the baseball analogy), and presupposes that a singular flop from 1 company is somehow a death sentence that the investors are going to lose their minds about (after a dozen and change big-to-huge return on investment movies.) and tank the stock or something.

[Gatsby77]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

[Comicopolis]

I saw the Deadpool trailer, Not impressed. The suit looks amazing, the jokes are terrible and he's just another vigilante out for revenge. Usually all the terrible movies come out in January and February. Movies don't start getting good until around May

 

I agree. The trailer looks absolutely awful to me. I don't like the loud mouthed punk attitude and seeing it play out on film is not going to work for me as I despise Deadpool to begin with and that doesn't help.

 

+100000000000000

[ComicConnoisseur]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

Michael B Jordan was great in Fruitvale Station, but totally didn`t do a good job as the Human Torch.

He came off as a joke.

Chris Rock playing the Human Torch.

If you want to continue to put him on a pedestal for his performance as the Human Torch go ahead!

The guy who played Reed Richards was actually cooler.

Also comparing Nick Fury, and KingPin to the Human Torch is like someone trying to compare Superman to Jimmy Olsen.

 

Also I have been noticing you have been trying to play the racist card in this conversation to stifle debate.

Don`t think I `m the only one who has noticed this.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

They've BEEN using caution since Feige took over Marvel Studios. Feige was there for all of Avi Arad's bombs, so he knows how easy it is for non-comic guys like Arad was, the Fox execs, the Sony execs, or the Warner Brothers execs to make superhero films.

[Gatsby77]

[

Also I have been noticing you have been trying to play the racist card in this conversation to stifle debate.

Don`t think I `m the only one who has noticed this.

 

 

Excuse me?

 

I called out one other poster's equally coded but still racist critique of Jordan's casting more than a week ago.

 

Those two instances constitute neither race-baiting nor an attempt to stifle debate.

 

The FF film was not good. And its utter box office failure puts the immediate future of the franchise in doubt. But it's not the movie that will kill the comic book craze.

 

And none of this has to do with Michael B. Jordan's performance as Storm, which has been almost universally praised.

 

He wasn't the problem (as I said last week) any more than Michael Clarke Duncan's casting as the Kingpin was the problem with Daredevil.

[ComicConnoisseur]

[

Also I have been noticing you have been trying to play the racist card in this conversation to stifle debate.

Don`t think I `m the only one who has noticed this.

 

 

Excuse me?

 

I called out one other poster's equally coded but still racist critique of Jordan's casting more than a week ago.

 

Those two instances constitute neither race-baiting nor an attempt to stifle debate.

 

The FF film was not good. And its utter box office failure puts the immediate future of the franchise in doubt. But it's not the movie that will kill the comic book craze.

 

And none of this has to do with Michael B. Jordan's performance as Storm, which has been almost universally praised.

 

He wasn't the problem (as I said last week) any more than Michael Clarke Duncan's casting as the Kingpin was the problem with Daredevil.

His role hasn`t been universally praised.

If anybody watched the movie he played Johnny Storm as a comedic oaf.

The way you keep describing his performance is like he played Johnny Storm like a serious role like he did in Fruitvale Station.

 

You`re giving people who haven`t seen this movie the impression that Michael B. Jordan gave an OSCAR performance as the Human Torch.

He didn`t. In fact he gave the worst performance of the four cast members who played FF.

It seems like you don`t want to admit Trank tried to be too PC cute, and it backfired casting Michael B. Jordan as the Human Torch.

 

 

[MetalPSI]

I want a new punisher movie

Want another 1 dimensional character movie?

 

Aren't most?

 

No but Punisher...he thinks the world owes him something and that is his only motivation.

 

See, a character the masses can relate to. I should make this movie and become a billionaire

[Prince Namor]

It is absolutely "borderline racist" to criticize Jordan's casting in this movie.

 

There is _nothing_ about the character that necessitates him being white, given an adoption twist.

 

And where was the outrage when we got a black Nick Fury or a black Kingpin? Neither of those changes were necessary or faithful to the books either.

 

Or that we had a part Hispanic actress play Sue Storm in the last two FF movies?

 

Michael B. Jordan brought the necessary cockiness & impulsiveness to the role -- he was great. And the vast majority of critics agree that of the main actors, he was a highlight.

 

Ditto, if he weren't too old, I would love to see Idris Elba as the next James Bond. Same thing -- having read all the Fleming books & seen the movies, there's nothing that requires Bond to be white.

 

So John Cena could play Luke Cage?

 

Marky Mark could play Blade?

 

Toby Maguire could play Static?

 

Stone Cold Steve Austin to play Moses Magnum?

 

Triple H could play Tyroc?

[MetalPSI]

Triple H?

[kimik]

An interesting article by Forbes on how the Fantastic Four movie bombing has Disney concerned about future Marvel movies.

 

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

The Fantastic Four is Disney`s nightmare!

 

This article is missing the biggest issue - a lack of a long term plan for a franchise and then handing the reigns of any movie to a strung out director regardless of the genre. While I doubt the FF would be a blockbuster since it is a 3rd tier property, an Ant-Man like performance at the box office is doable with proper execution.

[VintageComics]

Why do you people keep talking about the whole black Johnny and white Sue dynamic? It's been spelled out over and over, adoption. Is that something you are unfamiliar with?

 

Does it put you in an uproar when you go out and see black families with adopted white children or vice versa? They changed the race and back story, we get it. If the movie is garbage, it's garbage. And it's not from changing the race and backstory of the Storms.

 

Some of you people are beginning to come off as sounding borderline racist.

 

Lord. I'm so tired of the racist card being thrown out when somebody mentions black torch. Most of the people complaining seem to take issue with it being an unnecessary change to the backstory. I've seen plenty of people also complain about Sue being Russian or whatever. Again, because it serves no added purpose to the story.

 

Stop throwing race cards around.

 

I said they sound borderline racist. I'm not going to call people out as racist as I have no way of knowing, but the posts don't help. He's black, so what? Why does this keep getting brought up?

 

As far as characterization goes, is there any traits that necessitate Johnny Storm being white?

 

The problem with Johnny being black and Sue being from Kosovo is that now they have to create yet another backstory to cover the reason for them being together in a blended family. They had a hard enough time creating a story around the Fantastic Four as they sit according to Marvel's vision.

 

And so you are not dealing with the FF anymore, you're dealing with people who share names and some of their powers with Marvel's actual FF (which many other heroes can do) but they are not actually the FF in person.

 

I couldn't care less what race the actors are. Make them anything you want as long as it works, but it was just a lame attempt at making the movie more appealing for PC types. ie. a cash grab IMO to appeal to more people. It wasn't about the story.

 

But to top it off, even after they made the changes they failed to convince me that they come across as a believable brother / sister relationship to me.

 

 

[VintageComics]

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man. However, Johnny Storm is American. So what does that mean?

 

The Norse gods are Norse and yet Heimdall was a black male in the Thor scenes.

 

I disagreed with it at first based on the above but I do agree that he played a terrific Heimdall.

 

Jordan just didn't cut it as Johnny to me. Sorry.