Kevin Feige disbands Marvel's CREATIVE COMMITTEE 1 1

[Marvelfangirl]

Hmm......

Bleeding Cool

[Bosco685]

On the issue of Wright - the issue was never whether it was good or not. The issue was "did it fit?". When Wright started on this movie, it was a Phase 1 movie that would have been part of building the foundation of the MCU. By the time it was released, it was virtually Phase 3 because he dicked around with his other stuff in the meantime.

 

You know, if you don't watch it Fantastic Four is going to pop up and refer to you as a flip-flopper.

 

Additionally, you're assuming that the ideas Wright and others had were actually good. Based on the history of Hollywood's idea of creative license with comics in adaptations, I would argue that the reigning in of that "creativity" is necessary.

 

You first said what Wright had created wasn't 'good'. Here's another director that has had an incredible run that went nuts over the Edgar Wright -script. And, that it was more MARVEL than any he had read before.

 

Joss Whedon Calls Edgar Wright's -script for Ant-Man the Best Marvel -script He's Read

 

With the premiere date of his film coming up very soon, however, Whedon seems to feel more liberty in speaking about Wright’s departure, saying in the interview, “I thought the -script was not only the best -script that Marvel had ever had, but the most Marvel -script I’d read. I had no interest in Ant-Man. [Then] I read the -script, and was like, Of course! This is so good! It reminded me of the books when I read them. Irreverent and funny and could make what was small large, and vice versa.” That’s high praise from the man who is tasked with handling the most important and fragile part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with The Avengers.

 

Whedon continues, “I don’t know where things went wrong. But I was very sad. Because I thought, ‘This is a no-brainer. This is Marvel getting it exactly right.’ Whatever dissonance that came, whatever it was, I don’t understand why it was bigger than a marriage that seemed so right. But I’m not going to say it was definitely Marvel, or Edgar’s gone mad! I felt like they would complement each other by the ways that they were different. And, uh, something happened.”

 

Was Whedon just stroking his friend's ego?

[Bosco685]

Hmm......

Bleeding Cool

 

The bigger question, is how did Feige manage to strong-arm Disney into this decision? Because it has left him, far more secure on “Feige Island” with less inconvenient critical voices. If Feige doesn’t answer to Marvel, who does he answer to?

 

As a former employee to Marvel’s film division said to me “if you want a target on your back, just say no to Kevin.”

 

The second largest film studio in the world was strong-armed by Kevin Feige? And even better, a former employee of the studio providing reference to what it's like working for Feige. A FORMER employee. So did the reporter go back and research why that person is a former employee?

 

 

I don't know Feige from beans, other than what we all read. But the story goes both ways. Either this is going to turn into a bad decision, or we are going to continue to be entertained. That's what's going to prove this out in the end.

[fantastic_four]

Hmm......

Bleeding Cool

 

That writer was wondering the same thing I was about the committee's advice being suggestions and that Feige had the final call. Why would he get rid of a group of Marvel's most talented writers--several of whom are the exact guys who created the original stories like Civil War that the movies are now being based upon--when all they had to be in the first place was a voice that Feige and the filmmakers could choose to listen to or not listen to? And what connection is there at ALL to Marvel now aside from Feige and whatever quality level his personal vision actually rates? Why silence the voice of experienced guys whose only purpose is to make sure the film vision stays true to the comic and that have done an indisputably fantastic job of doing so to date? It makes no sense at all. Altering the influence those voices have...sure. Silencing them entirely though? What the HELL?

[Bosco685]

CINEMA BLEND: The Real Reason Edgar Wright May Have Left Ant-Man

 

Over the years I've heard many stories of the Creative Committee giving notes that are pedestrian, motivated by 'save the cat' story logic and sometimes a drag on creativity. One Marvel creative talked to me about battles with the Creative Committee where they focused on details of nit-picky science that ignored the general tone of the -script itself. The notes that drove Edgar Wright off Ant-Man came from the Creative Committee.

 

And it gets better.

 

Why It Matters That Marvel Studios Just Escaped Its Eccentric Billionaire C.E.O. [updated]

 

Even as someone fanatically private—he reportedly wore glasses and a false mustache to disguise himself at the 2008 premiere of Iron Man—Perlmutter has managed to become legendary for his various eccentricities. Reported anecdotes of Perlmutter’s parsimony range from kind of cute (“Why do you need a new pencil? There’s 2 inches left on that one!”) to mildly embarrassing to the company (“Disney ran out of food at an Avengers media event because of Perlmutter's constraints, causing reporters to pilfer from Universal’s nearby suite for The Five-Year Engagement”) to fairly insulting (Mickey Rourke was reportedly initially offered a mere $250,000 to appear in Iron Man 2.)

 

Perlmutter’s company, Toy Biz, helped to rescue Marvel from bankruptcy back in the mid-90s, so it’s somewhat understandable he would want the comic-book giant to take a financially frugal approach going forward. A source told The Hollywood Reporter, “Disney owns Marvel, but Ike gets to control every budget and everything spent on marketing, down to the penny.” And that legendarily tight-fisted approach may have resulted in the most notorious rumor about Perlmutter. According to The Financial Times, when Don Cheadle was hired at a much cheaper rate to replace Terrence Howard in the Iron Man franchise, Perlmutter allegedly told former chairman of Disney consumer products Andy Mooney that no one would notice because black people “look the same.” Mooney has since left, reportedly over conflicts with Perlmutter, and he was quickly followed out the door by three African-American female executives who have since sought settlements. None of these moves look good on a company that is frequently called out by fans for coming up short on matters of diversity.

 

So it's clear Perlmutter's benefits of old to get the company through the tough times had outgrown their value. That's a given.

 

Since this post originally went up, Birth Death Movies reported that in addition to cutting Ike Perlmutter out of the creative process, Marvel has also disbanded its Creative Committee, which consisted of “Alan Fine, who came with Perlmutter to Marvel through Toy Biz, Brian Michael Bendis, who is a prolific Marvel Comics writer, Dan Buckley, publisher of Marvel Comics and Joe Quesada, former editor-in-chief of Marvel Comics and the current Chief Creative Officer of Marvel Enterprises.” According to the report, the Creative Committee was responsible for a lot of delays on conservative feedback on Marvel cinematic properties. Birth Death Movies claims, for example, that it was the Creative Committee’s notes that caused Marvel’s highly publicized rift with director Edgar Wright. Avengers director Joss Whedon was also very frank about his creative differences with Marvel, calling them “really unpleasant.”

 

And then it comes back to who they can attract with less constraints on the budget for a given film, which usually has ridden between $140-170 MM for individual character movies and $200-$250 MM for team movies.

 

There’s also the question of budget. “One of the main reasons Disney bought Marvel was because it could make a great looking movie for a fraction of the price of a Jerry Bruckheimer movie,” a studio insider told The Financial Times in 2012. That perspective may be somewhat outdated given Avengers: Age of Ultron had a whopping $250 million budget compared to Iron Man’s more modest $140 million. But even looser purse strings could mean freedom to attract even bigger talent (Robert Downey Jr. is, famously, the only Marvel actor to pull in big bucks) both in front of the camera and behind. So while it’s hard to imagine Marvel getting even bigger than it already is, that’s obviously what Feige and Disney have in mind. An even bigger and bolder future. The T-Rexes and velociraptors better watch out, Marvel is coming for them.

[Lazyboy]

Considering Bendis and Quesada are hacks, this is a good thing right?

 

Yeah, disbanding a creative committee from the comic side of things seems like it could be a bad idea... until you look at the names on the committee.

[Mr 9.8]

http://comicbook.com/2015/09/03/report-marvel-studios-feige-nearly-quit-over-civil-war-concerns/

 

Report: Marvel Studios' Feige Nearly Quit Over Civil War Concerns

[Bosco685]

http://comicbook.com/2015/09/03/report-marvel-studios-feige-nearly-quit-over-civil-war-concerns/

 

Report: Marvel Studios' Feige Nearly Quit Over Civil War Concerns

 

It references this article.

 

Marvel's Civil War: Why Kevin Feige Demanded Emancipation from CEO Ike Perlmutter

 

Civil War, set for release May 6, has been nicknamed Avengers 2.5 because its scope — and its huge cast — is more in line with the Marvel mega-movies than the studio’s normal single-hero outing. Set for release in May 2016, Civil War sees the Marvel heroes pitted against each other. It features almost every actor from the Avengers movies, including Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans, and introduces Tom Holland as a new screen version of Spider-Man.

 

Sources say the budget on Civil War ballooned accordingly, which didn't sit well with the famously frugal Perlmutter. “New York wanted to scale it down,” says one insider. Marvel and Disney declined to comment.

 

“New York” in this case wasn’t just Perlmutter, 72. It was also Marvel's so-called "creative committee," a group of execs from Marvel’s various divisions including publishing as well as Alan Fine, Perlmutter’s right-hand man. The collective has been around since nearly the inception of Marvel Studios in the mid-2000s, offering critiques of creative choices as well as input on business decisions. Insiders say that with Feige breaking free of Perlmutter and the New York side of the company, the committee will not be disbanded but its influence over the Marvel movies will be nominal at best.

 

“New York had a big say for a long time but hasn't Kevin earned the right to some autonomy? He’s made the company billions. Why is he reporting to a 72-year-old man who doesn’t make movies?” asks one insider.

[jsilverjanet]

I like Bendis work, not sure why his input would be looked at as a negative. However Quesada is another story altogether

 

I think it's important to have some push back in the creative process (movie wise) If you are allowed to do whatever you want you might end up with the Phantom menace

 

 

[Doktor]

On the issue of Wright - the issue was never whether it was good or not. The issue was "did it fit?". When Wright started on this movie, it was a Phase 1 movie that would have been part of building the foundation of the MCU. By the time it was released, it was virtually Phase 3 because he dicked around with his other stuff in the meantime.

 

You know, if you don't watch it Fantastic Four is going to pop up and refer to you as a flip-flopper.

 

Additionally, you're assuming that the ideas Wright and others had were actually good. Based on the history of Hollywood's idea of creative license with comics in adaptations, I would argue that the reigning in of that "creativity" is necessary.

 

You first said what Wright had created wasn't 'good'. Here's another director that has had an incredible run that went nuts over the Edgar Wright -script. And, that it was more MARVEL than any he had read before.

 

Joss Whedon Calls Edgar Wright's -script for Ant-Man the Best Marvel -script He's Read

 

With the premiere date of his film coming up very soon, however, Whedon seems to feel more liberty in speaking about Wright’s departure, saying in the interview, “I thought the -script was not only the best -script that Marvel had ever had, but the most Marvel -script I’d read. I had no interest in Ant-Man. [Then] I read the -script, and was like, Of course! This is so good! It reminded me of the books when I read them. Irreverent and funny and could make what was small large, and vice versa.” That’s high praise from the man who is tasked with handling the most important and fragile part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe with The Avengers.

 

Whedon continues, “I don’t know where things went wrong. But I was very sad. Because I thought, ‘This is a no-brainer. This is Marvel getting it exactly right.’ Whatever dissonance that came, whatever it was, I don’t understand why it was bigger than a marriage that seemed so right. But I’m not going to say it was definitely Marvel, or Edgar’s gone mad! I felt like they would complement each other by the ways that they were different. And, uh, something happened.”

 

Was Whedon just stroking his friend's ego?

 

Again, "good" is a matter of context. His "good ideas" might have again been spectacular & spectacular when it was supposed to be a Phase 1 foundation movie. But even the best ideas can turn bad when in the context of a shared universe where they no longer fit.

 

I'll go back to MoS... it's a spectacular movie. It's just a mediocre movie when you consider it a Superman movie. Everything about it is great if it was say... Majestic or Hyperion or one of the other "not-Superman" Superman analogues. But as a Superman movie? It's mediocre at best.

 

And that's what I mean by "you're assuming they're good ideas". I could write the best superhero movie in history but if I want to ham-fist it into the MCU or make it be a Justice League movie when it's obviously an X-Men -script, then it's going to turn to a dumpster fire of a film really fast. So when Whedon or Gunn says it's the best -script they've ever read for a superhero movie, it just might be. It just might be the worst -script ever written once you try to force it into being a Phase 3 MCU movie. But it was probably just a pretty good Phase 3 -script that he didn't like being told "no, it's wrong & doesn't fit in these ways Fix it" before saying "Screw it, I'm out."

 

We have no idea what the MCC griped about or what they put their foot down on. We don't know if it fit perfectly with Phase 2.99999 or if it was a swing & a miss. We just know something happened that likely wouldn't have happened had Wright got his stuff together & made the movie 7 years ago when he was supposed to.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Doktor

[Bosco685]

Again, "good" is a matter of context. His "good ideas" might have again been spectacular & spectacular when it was supposed to be a Phase 1 foundation movie. But even the best ideas can turn bad when in the context of a shared universe where they no longer fit.

 

I'll go back to MoS... it's a spectacular movie. It's just a mediocre movie when you consider it a Superman movie. Everything about it is great if it was say... Majestic or Hyperion or one of the other "not-Superman" Superman analogues. But as a Superman movie? It's mediocre at best.

 

And that's what I mean by "you're assuming they're good ideas". I could write the best superhero movie in history but if I want to ham-fist it into the MCU or make it be a Justice League movie when it's obviously an X-Men -script, then it's going to turn to a dumpster fire of a film really fast. So when Whedon or Gunn says it's the best -script they've ever read for a superhero movie, it just might be. It just might be the worst -script ever written once you try to force it into being a Phase 3 MCU movie. But it was probably just a pretty good Phase 3 -script that he didn't like being told "no, it's wrong & doesn't fit in these ways Fix it" before saying "Screw it, I'm out."

 

We have no idea what the MCC griped about or what they put their foot down on. We don't know if it fit perfectly with Phase 2.99999 or if it was a swing & a miss. We just know something happened that likely wouldn't have happened had Wright got his stuff together & made the movie 7 years ago when he was supposed to.

 

We are getting closer to a common understanding. But there is something you may be missing.

 

Whedon made it clear what he read from the original Edgar Wright -script was more of a Marvel storyline than anything he had ever read previously. That says a lot coming from a seasoned, respected creator such as Whedon. So if the MCC was picking away at it when it was that solid a -script, I could see how that would annoy someone. But I would have hoped after all those years of work getting to where they were at, all parties involved would have worked around any differences to deliver the final movie. I blame them all for that, as Wright could have found a middle ground and the MCC could have calmed the situation down by offering an olive branch (e.g. give in on some parts to appease Wright's commitment to his -script).

 

But overall with this news of the disbanding of the MCC, we won't be able to tell for a while how impactful the decision was until the future movies beyond Civil War. Supposedly, the MCC was telling Feige to cut the movie back to keep the budget low. And YES, Perlmutter would be strongly behind that message as that is his approach to things most always from all that has been written. So the situation comes to the attention of the Disney CEO via Feige, and he reacts to it by not only backing Feige breaking away from Perlmutter's direct control, but also giving Feige the freedom to disband the MCC in influencing Marvel Studios.

 

But is the MCC really disbanded since it was meant to influence more than Marvel Studios? Of course it isn't.

 

Marvel Creative Committee Not Disbanded, According to New Report

 

It lives on! Just as a modified version, and with the same influence over Marvel Television. And supposedly with some continued influence on the movies.

[fantastic_four]

I like Bendis work, not sure why his input would be looked at as a negative. However Quesada is another story altogether

 

I think it's important to have some push back in the creative process (movie wise) If you are allowed to do whatever you want you might end up with the Phantom menace

 

Quesada hasn't don't any writing, has he? I thought his work was all art and editorial. I love what he did in creating the grittier Marvel Knights line and bringing guys like Garth Ennis in to write Punisher. He claims he was also greatly involved in the Netflix Daredevil show and originally suggested Charlie Cox to play Daredevil because he liked him in Boardwalk Empire. What bad ideas has Quesada been responsible for?

[Bosco685]

Quesada hasn't don't any writing, has he? I thought his work was all art and editorial. I love what he did in creating the grittier Marvel Knights line and bringing guys like Garth Ennis in to write Punisher. He claims he was also greatly involved in the Netflix Daredevil show and originally suggested Charlie Cox to play Daredevil because he liked him in Boardwalk Empire. What bad ideas has Quesada been responsible for?

 

I have no direct issue with Joe Quesada, and loved his early artwork on Valiant's Ninjak series. But it would appear Marvel fanatics feel betrayed by decisions that supposedly he had a hand in.

 

What Joe Quesada did right....

 

Joe Quesada is widely hated by fans of Marvel for various decisions like One More Day, Civil War, and House of M.

 

[fantastic_four]

I'm neutral on the Civil War concept for now. I mostly enjoyed the idea, but I was skeptical of where it would take the stories in the future. Has the identity of the heroes being public continued through to the current day? I haven't read any new comics in about five years.

 

Was the idea even Quesada's to begin with? I'm not sure who started it, but I assumed it grew from Bendis making Daredevil's identity public in his comic. I could easily be wrong, I didn't read any press about it.

[FineCollector]

Considering Bendis and Quesada are hacks, this is a good thing right?

 

Correct. I'll never forget the mess Bendis made of Avengers. He called Vision a toaster, and couldn't understand why Wanda would be in love with a toaster. Hawkeye killed himself when he ran out of arrows (instead of firing debris), Iron Man called Wolverine an honorable warrior (instead of a little psycho who doesn't follow orders), chaos magic didn't exist (despite the existence of an elder Earth demon, Chthon, who wields chaos magic)... that's what Marvel's feature writer knows about his own universe, folks.

[fantastic_four]

Correct. I'll never forget the mess Bendis made of Avengers. He called Vision a toaster, and couldn't understand why Wanda would be in love with a toaster.

 

I never understood it either. Do they have sex?

[Comicopolis]

Correct. I'll never forget the mess Bendis made of Avengers. He called Vision a toaster, and couldn't understand why Wanda would be in love with a toaster.

 

I never understood it either. Do they have sex?

 

Yes - just not with each other.

[fantastic_four]

Correct. I'll never forget the mess Bendis made of Avengers. He called Vision a toaster, and couldn't understand why Wanda would be in love with a toaster.

 

I never understood it either. Do they have sex?

 

Yes - just not with each other.

 

Who have they each had sex with? And what brings them back together if they have to go outside of the relationship to get their needs fulfilled? Does Vision even have a sex drive?

[jsilverjanet]

I never understood the Vision/Wanda relationship either.

 

Quesada - I was under the impression he was responsible for the Gwen/Sins storyline

 

 

[Doktor]

Correct. I'll never forget the mess Bendis made of Avengers. He called Vision a toaster, and couldn't understand why Wanda would be in love with a toaster.

 

I never understood it either. Do they have sex?

 

Yes - just not with each other.

 

Who have they each had sex with? And what brings them back together if they have to go outside of the relationship to get their needs fulfilled? Does Vision even have a sex drive?

 

He has a USB drive that substitutes for it.