Undervalued Moon Knight books thread-Spectacular Spiderman # 23 is my 1st pick..

[JTLarsen]

"First time X and Y meet....? Pffft. Only NERDS care about THAT kind of stuff."

 

Sad, but oh so true.

 

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Power Man 48 sells for nice coin and it need not be in a 9.8 slab either.

 

And GL/GA first team-up obviously does (and it's not even their first team-up per se, wouldn't that have been in JLA?), but for 23 additional reasons as well

 

Rogue joining x-men, maybe...

 

Can't think of any others right now

 

But yes, I don't disagree with you, that was my initial reaction to the post, I wish it were not that way though, my net worth would be much better off as I have a massive hoard of "seconds"

 

Those are all team books too. There have been a few instances, only because of movie or TV where the "first meeting" of two characters may have seen a small spike.

 

Swamp Thing 7 with first meeting of Swamp Thing and Batman is a non-team book that generates some interest

 

But it's because Batman appears in the book, drawn by Bernie Wrightson (and which first saw a separate spike in 1988 after the publication of the Cult), not because it's their "first meeting."

 

Please don't take this as being argumentative, especially because I am just back in the hobby after a 20 year absence and much has change. My question is then why does CGC take the time to note on the label that it is the first meeting between the two? I do realize what is on the label is not the be all end all but there must be countless first meetings of major characters (where it wasn't a first appearance of either) that the notation doesn't make the label. On some level can't it ne argued that it is at least somewhat important? Two characters with large fan bases meeting for the first time?

 

 

If it's important to you, it's important. It just historically hasn't been important to the hobby as a whole. Whether it should be or not, well, I wouldn't presume to tell other collectors what they should care about (kind of a lie, but true in this instance).

[RockMyAmadeus]

Please don't take this as being argumentative, especially because I am just back in the hobby after a 20 year absence and much has change. My question is then why does CGC take the time to note on the label that it is the first meeting between the two? I do realize what is on the label is not the be all end all but there must be countless first meetings of major characters (where it wasn't a first appearance of either) that the notation doesn't make the label. On some level can't it ne argued that it is at least somewhat important? Two characters with large fan bases meeting for the first time?

 

They very often don't call out things like that in the notes.. See the image of the big this thread is about a page ago. it is indeed the first "meeting" of Spidey and MK, but there is no note referencing that on either CGC label.

 

Those notes are purely informational.

 

That is correct. It's vitally important to remember that the notes sections of CGC labels are 1. free, 2. only reflect what CGC decides to put there.

 

I was quite stunned to realize that people were making financial decisions, sometimes quite large financial decisions, based on what appears on the label notes. But the label notes are just notes, and have frequently been incorrect. They only reflect what whomever is in charge of that part of the process has decided is important to include. Granted, CGC does try to get information as accurate as possible, but they are informational only, not part of the service you're paying for (which is demonstrated by the fact that there are many books with NO notes) and should not ever be considered authoritative in any way.

 

In other words, one should know New Mutants #98 is the first appearance of Deadpool, without needing to be told that by the notes, if one is in the market for that book.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Please don't take this as being argumentative, especially because I am just back in the hobby after a 20 year absence and much has change. My question is then why does CGC take the time to note on the label that it is the first meeting between the two? I do realize what is on the label is not the be all end all but there must be countless first meetings of major characters (where it wasn't a first appearance of either) that the notation doesn't make the label. On some level can't it ne argued that it is at least somewhat important? Two characters with large fan bases meeting for the first time?

 

They very often don't call out things like that in the notes.. See the image of the big this thread is about a page ago. it is indeed the first "meeting" of Spidey and MK, but there is no note referencing that on either CGC label.

 

Those notes are purely informational.

 

I guess in a way you are making my point. In only rare circumstances do they note first meetings and they do in the case of Swamp Thing 7. The point I am trying to make is that these two characters meeting has taken on some level of importance with this book.

 

The note is certainly informational but that fact that it is only used in rare instances goes with my point that it is a significant event in that issue and at least on some level drives the value of that book.

 

My apologies to the OP for getting this off track

 

This discussion is a good one for this thread, and on-topic. No worries.

 

The market, since the publication of ST #7, has decided that this "first meeting" isn't all that important. What spurred interest originally in this issue was the publication of The Cult in 1988, which featured Bernie Wrightson drawing Batman again, and the general Batmania that surrounded this era, leading up to and after the 1989 movie.

 

The issue became important *not* because it was Swamp Thing and Batman's first meeting...but because it was a Batman appearance, drawn by Wrightson.

 

Someone at CGC thought it was important enough to include on the label, but that doesn't make it important to the market. And it's not, for these reasons: "first meetings between characters" has, historically, been far down on the list of what the market considers "important" or "key." There are exceptions, but generally that's the rule. And, Swamp Thing has always been a second, and third, tier DC character. He's never been on par with Batman. For "first meetings" to have importance, both characters have to have the same relative popularity and recognition, like Batman and Superman, or Hulk and Thing, AND the characters have to have established some sort of relationship going forward that makes this "first meeting" significant.

 

A perfect example of the latter is Blue Beetle and Booster Gold. Their first meeting might take on some significance, because they became a relatively popular "team" for several decades afterwards. But that's not true of Batman and Swamp Thing. There's no "Batman and Swamp Thing" title, and they've only appeared together a tiny handful of times since that first meeting.

 

After all....what's the first meeting of Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane? How about Doctor Strange and Nick Fury? What about Superman and Animal Man? Blue Beetle and Lobo? Iron Man and Silver Surfer? Swamp Thing and Superman?

 

It's just not something that the market has, historically, embraced (with certain exceptions.)

[pjray55]

Please don't take this as being argumentative, especially because I am just back in the hobby after a 20 year absence and much has change. My question is then why does CGC take the time to note on the label that it is the first meeting between the two? I do realize what is on the label is not the be all end all but there must be countless first meetings of major characters (where it wasn't a first appearance of either) that the notation doesn't make the label. On some level can't it ne argued that it is at least somewhat important? Two characters with large fan bases meeting for the first time?

 

They very often don't call out things like that in the notes.. See the image of the big this thread is about a page ago. it is indeed the first "meeting" of Spidey and MK, but there is no note referencing that on either CGC label.

 

Those notes are purely informational.

 

I guess in a way you are making my point. In only rare circumstances do they note first meetings and they do in the case of Swamp Thing 7. The point I am trying to make is that these two characters meeting has taken on some level of importance with this book.

 

The note is certainly informational but that fact that it is only used in rare instances goes with my point that it is a significant event in that issue and at least on some level drives the value of that book.

 

My apologies to the OP for getting this off track

 

This discussion is a good one for this thread, and on-topic. No worries.

 

The market, since the publication of ST #7, has decided that this "first meeting" isn't all that important. What spurred interest originally in this issue was the publication of The Cult in 1988, which featured Bernie Wrightson drawing Batman again, and the general Batmania that surrounded this era, leading up to and after the 1989 movie.

 

The issue became important *not* because it was Swamp Thing and Batman's first meeting...but because it was a Batman appearance, drawn by Wrightson.

 

Someone at CGC thought it was important enough to include on the label, but that doesn't make it important to the market. And it's not, for these reasons: "first meetings between characters" has, historically, been far down on the list of what the market considers "important" or "key." There are exceptions, but generally that's the rule. And, Swamp Thing has always been a second, and third, tier DC character. He's never been on par with Batman. For "first meetings" to have importance, both characters have to have the same relative popularity and recognition, like Batman and Superman, or Hulk and Thing, AND the characters have to have established some sort of relationship going forward that makes this "first meeting" significant.

 

A perfect example of the latter is Blue Beetle and Booster Gold. Their first meeting might take on some significance, because they became a relatively popular "team" for several decades afterwards. But that's not true of Batman and Swamp Thing. There's no "Batman and Swamp Thing" title, and they've only appeared together a tiny handful of times since that first meeting.

 

After all....what's the first meeting of Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane? How about Doctor Strange and Nick Fury? What about Superman and Animal Man? Blue Beetle and Lobo? Iron Man and Silver Surfer? Swamp Thing and Superman?

 

It's just not something that the market has, historically, embraced (with certain exceptions.)

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply in detail and to help me better understand. You make very valid points.

[the blob]

What spurred interest originally in this issue was the publication of The Cult in 1988, which featured Bernie Wrightson drawing Batman again,

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i think wrightson did batman/detective a few times in the 70s, did the cult bump up interest in those as well?

 

just asking. i was out of comics in 1988.

[the blob]

After all....what's the first meeting of Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane?

 

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well, i am going to guess that book is really expensive for a lot of reasons anyway

 

and when Superman the New 104 comes out and we find out Jimmy and Lois have secretly been lovers for the last 75 years, that book will explode!

[RockMyAmadeus]

What spurred interest originally in this issue was the publication of The Cult in 1988, which featured Bernie Wrightson drawing Batman again,

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i think wrightson did batman/detective a few times in the 70s, did the cult bump up interest in those as well?

 

just asking. i was out of comics in 1988.

 

Wrightson did the cover to Tec #425, but I'm pretty sure he never did any interior art in Bats/Tec. I don't see any other 70's Batman art by Wrightson aside from ST #7.

[Gatsby77]

After all....what's the first meeting of Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane? How about Doctor Strange and Nick Fury? What about Superman and Animal Man? Blue Beetle and Lobo? Iron Man and Silver Surfer? Swamp Thing and Superman?

 

Not sure if it's their first, but the only Swamp Thing / Superman story I've read actually turned out to be one of the best Superman stories I've ever read.

 

DC Comics Presents # 85 from 1985, with stellar art by Rick Vetch & a story by Alan Moore.

 

Still $1 bin fodder but _well_ worth checking out if you are (or have ever been) a Superman fan.