Q for dealers/flippers

[the blob]

Sorry blob, but how can you calculate it in terms of "how much per hour I can make"? This puzzles me…

 

Not an exact calculation but you can get pretty close. If you estimate it take 5 minutes to grade and scan a book. Another 3 minutes to post the book on E-Bay. Another 5 minutes to mail the package out. Buying books is pretty fun most of the time but lets say it takes 5 minutes to buy a single book (averaged out over a buying opportunity). So that 1 book took 18 minutes to sell. If he wants to average $25 an hour he need to have a profit of $7 to $8 per book to meet that goal.

 

Very rough estimates since he may need to spend time filling in a spreadsheet, filling in extra tax forms at the end of the year, dropping packages off at the post office but you get the idea.

 

yes, basically that sort of analysis and hoped for profit of $6-$8 sounds about right, although i would say per listing, not necessarily per book as I might have a lot of comics for sale. when it is a lot of cheaper stuff at a minimum I am looking at 2-3X what I paid... those tend to be books I miscalculated in the first place...stuff I though was sellable at $4-$7 each that turns out not to be. unfortunately, i make a lot of those mistakes on the cheap stuff.

 

also, the dynamics here vs. ebay are different. i can list a little faster here than on ebay and, of course, no fees.

[the blob]

but IF you're at the LCS or a yard sale anyways buying ...

 

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i don't factor in the cost of time buying because that is fun time for this big fat nerd, although if, let's say, i take a cab home from NYCC because my heart will give out lugging home 400 comics on the subway and spend $50 on that, then yes, it should be factored in

[the blob]

Lots of people do. It's how some back issue sections become museums, rather than revenue makers. Not that there is anything wrong with that

 

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when something becomes hot again you'll have it in stock!

 

unloading ASM 129s for $50 a pop 15 years ago probably seemed like the prudent thing to do for a dead book. Ditto Marvel Spotlight 5 and a host of other dead BA books.

[romanheart]

Lots of people do. It's how some back issue sections become museums, rather than revenue makers. Not that there is anything wrong with that

 

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when something becomes hot again you'll have it in stock!

 

unloading ASM 129s for $50 a pop 15 years ago probably seemed like the prudent thing to do for a dead book. Ditto Marvel Spotlight 5 and a host of other dead BA books.

 

You're subscribing to Rozanski Theory. I actually saw some of his videos the other day for the first time. He wants to hold on to as many books as he can for precisely the reason you just mentioned. The question becomes does the cost of buying and holding on to so much drek outweigh the cost of selling that hot book later.

 

I think it is better to sell today then tomorrow. Perhaps I am wrong.

[shadroch]

It depends on how much space you have, and if you can bear having the cash tied up in inventory that may never sell. From experience, I know it is much cheaper to have 10,000 books in stock than 250,000.

My point, if there is one, is there is no one way that is correct for everyone. I once thought having 200,000plus books and the expenses that went with it was the way to go. Now I am pursuing the lean mean method. Neither method is 100% right for me, nor for anyone else.

In another thread, people are claiming you shouldn't do time payments for a $75 book. Why, I don't know. I'd take a lay away on a $10 book if I thought I was getting a loyal customer out of it.

[the blob]

Lots of people do. It's how some back issue sections become museums, rather than revenue makers. Not that there is anything wrong with that

 

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when something becomes hot again you'll have it in stock!

 

unloading ASM 129s for $50 a pop 15 years ago probably seemed like the prudent thing to do for a dead book. Ditto Marvel Spotlight 5 and a host of other dead BA books.

 

You're subscribing to Rozanski Theory. I actually saw some of his videos the other day for the first time. He wants to hold on to as many books as he can for precisely the reason you just mentioned. The question becomes does the cost of buying and holding on to so much drek outweigh the cost of selling that hot book later.

 

I think it is better to sell today then tomorrow. Perhaps I am wrong.

 

of course, it depends, for 30+ years it made sense to stick your NM copies of Rom 1 in the dollar box and unload them if you could.

 

OTOH, today's market is so key/#1 focused, maybe a lot of books are just not candidates for growth. not long ago if a character got hot you might get interest all along their title or for their first 10 appearances or whatever, but now, who knows? of course, that might change and people might start getting interested in artists books again and Miller's DD run might get attention rather than just the "keys" in there.

 

i may think too old school. last big show i went to i picked up nice copies of the solo story runs of living mummy in supernatural thrillers and manwolf from whatever that series was. i already have a lot of manthing from adventures into fear and morbius and son of satan and ghost rider from Marvel spotlight and deathlok from astonishing tales and the marvel presents guardians of the galaxy books....if any of those take off....but maybe that's just not how things work now? some interest in the first solo story, not much interest in the rest? jeez,. i hope not. and i've certainly missed the boat for a bit with the old GOTG books and the ant-man solo books from the early 70s.

[romanheart]

If all you had to do was hold on to books for a long period of time then why are people selling back their collections for fractions of what they bought them for. Even collections with some really good material.

 

I think the short money method like what's happening with the 'Scooby-Doo Team-Up' with Poison Ivy and Harley is the way to go. Is there really any reason to be interested in that book other than a Harley Quinn appearance?

[Michelangelo]

I wouldn't exactly call myself a flipper in the sense that I buy books with the sole intention to flip them - though I have sold many books for more than I paid for them.

 

For flippers, who do this in their free time, don't rely on the income/cash flow to pay the rent/bills, or to keep the lights on in a store, etc., it really all depends on the individual and how much time they're willing to invest and how much of a % they are happy to gain.

 

I'm not buying, posting, waiting, shipping a book for $20 - that's not worth my time

[the blob]

If all you had to do was hold on to books for a long period of time then why are people selling back their collections for fractions of what they bought them for. Even collections with some really good material.

 

I think the short money method like what's happening with the 'Scooby-Doo Team-Up' with Poison Ivy and Harley is the way to go. Is there really any reason to be interested in that book other than a Harley Quinn appearance?

 

not sure which collections these are. i suppose some people overpaid for stuff, stuff was overgraded when bought, stuff was restored, etc. but if you started collecting vintage material (SA and BA) 25 years ago, particularly if you sought out higher grade stuff, unless you paid full retail for a lot of mid-grade barks ducks or something like that i think you have done pretty well. if you paid wizard prices for the hot new books of the month, yeah, you're skrewed unless you bought a palette of NM 98s.

 

i'm not saying buy and hold for everything, but don't necessarily unload stuff when it is at the bottom either. yes, you might be sitting on stuff for a while. if you have the space for it, then so be it. i have so much stuff i don't have a problem aging a lot of it a bit more. fact is, i don't think i have time to sell more than 10% of my collection in a year unless i do huge bulk listings. in fact, that would probably be about 2,500 books. it would be tough for me to list 200 or so individual books here and on ebay per month.

 

i sell books when it looks like they have gotten hot. sometimes a bit too early, but whatever.

 

also, are you really gaining much liquidity $-wise unloading stuff at 10 cents a book, which is the high end of a drek unload?

[the blob]

I wouldn't exactly call myself a flipper in the sense that I buy books with the sole intention to flip them - though I have sold many books for more than I paid for them.

 

For flippers, who do this in their free time, don't rely on the income/cash flow to pay the rent/bills, or to keep the lights on in a store, etc., it really all depends on the individual and how much time they're willing to invest and how much of a % they are happy to gain.

 

I'm not buying, posting, waiting, shipping a book for $20 - that's not worth my time

 

$100K a year works out to about $50 an hour for a 40 hour workweek.

 

Making $20 profit per book, if you can do that, gets you at over a $100K pace if you can do it once every 20 minutes. obviously you need the volume for it all to make sense.

 

in my spare time i'd be happy to make a buck a minute. but i'm not a hedge fund manager or anything.

[Michelangelo]

I wouldn't exactly call myself a flipper in the sense that I buy books with the sole intention to flip them - though I have sold many books for more than I paid for them.

 

For flippers, who do this in their free time, don't rely on the income/cash flow to pay the rent/bills, or to keep the lights on in a store, etc., it really all depends on the individual and how much time they're willing to invest and how much of a % they are happy to gain.

 

I'm not buying, posting, waiting, shipping a book for $20 - that's not worth my time

 

$100K a year works out to about $50 an hour for a 40 hour workweek.

 

Making $20 profit per book, if you can do that, gets you at over a $100K pace if you can do it once every 20 minutes. obviously you need the volume for it all to make sense.

 

Oh for sure. I agree 100% if you had a high volume @ $20 profit per book, you'd clean up.

 

I'd be nowhere near that volume; and with limited resources to tie up into "inventory", I'd pass on small gains like that...

 

If I had the disposable income to buy full collections at 1-2k each (consisting of say 500 books or so), making $20 profit per book would make me very happy. 500 x $20 each is nice coin. It might take years to sell them all.. but it's nice pocket money.

[rjpb]

I flip GA to fund purchases, but I only buy what I like, so I get the joy of having it briefly, even if I don't make any money on it. Sometimes if I'm just looking through ebay I might buy something for 10 or 20 I think I can make a 20 dollar profit on, but mostly I'm looking for books I can make 50 bucks or more on, and at least 20%. I don't do it all the time, usually when I'm looking for stuff for my collection and stumble on something. I find when I spend over 800, it's tough to make much percentage wise, though I have cool books pass through my hands, the sweet spot seems to be books I buy for 50 to 200 that I double my money on ( or close to it), but those don't show up that frequently.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

If you can sell big key books for three times what you paid for them then could you let me know your secret please?

 

The key is to be in the book for the right amount (buy the book right) or (if not) time.

 

However, it would be acceptable to take less if the turn-around-time is less (i.e. a hot book you know you can flip for a % and then reinvest).

 

It would be acceptable to take a loss on a book if it meant reinvesting a % back into a winning book.

 

But as a general rule to shoot for... 3x what you pay to cover overhead and pay yourself.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Time held is a factor.

With new stock, if I can flip it for 25% profit, all is well an good.

After nintey days, I either have move the stock cheaper to recoup my investment or raise prices to justify my investment. I generally choose to sell at liquidation prices to keep my cash flow moving.

 

This is important too. This is why it is acceptable to take a loss on a % of a purchase, because it may be better to move it at a loss and reinvest that money in a winning position (versus holding a losing position).

 

Harry Rinker Rules on TAT (after Welch; applied rules for antiques)

Turn-around-time (TAT) for collector/dealer- 10, 20, & 30 years (hoarders)

**Generally a collector-dealer will lose money on any item resold within 10 years

**TAT for full-time and part-time dealers should be 90-180 days (dumpers/flippers). Speedy resale of antiques allows small dealers with little money to generate money by reinvesting in same;

**Older than 6 months for hit lists and discounts;

**Older than 1 year should go to auction house.

 

If the item has potential then it should be stored for 5 years in order to capture inflation and for the item to be perceived as new (storing and rotating stock example below)

1. Rotate merchandise to and from storage (5 years)

2. Increase the price each time you pull your stuff from storage (+10-20%)

3. Do not sell until you get your asking price

 

[oldmilwaukee6er]

I think the short money method like what's happening with the 'Scooby-Doo Team-Up' with Poison Ivy and Harley is the way to go. Is there really any reason to be interested in that book other than a Harley Quinn appearance?

 

No. I don't think so beyond the usual spec pressures - character (old school Harley & not the stripper clown), TV rumors, perceived lower print run of all ages title.

[mrc]

 

....had my eye on a Tec 425 cgc 9.4 on Clink for $120, but it sold. Now on ebay for $399.99. Acceptible margin?

 

 

[Junkdrawer]

Sorry blob, but how can you calculate it in terms of "how much per hour I can make"? This puzzles me…

 

I have a degree in economics. I do a little bit of regression analysis and there you have it.

Do your comic bookin at your job while your getting paid and you cant lose.

[AKA Rick]

it may be better to move it at a loss and reinvest that money in a winning position (versus holding a losing position).

 

So true!

 

Greed and Optimism are a business person's downfall.

 

Sure, everyone has a tale of finding treasure in the trash of their dollar bins, and many stories more than pay for the rubbish being held, but for most what ends up happening is all of the good stuff sells and all of the less desirable stuff remains unsold, tying up your money and taking up your space.

 

It's better to move inventory, even if at a loss, to then turn those dollars into reinvestment funds, and even if you have book you paid $100 for and got $25 for 'em, hope to turn that $25 back into $100 or don't dwell on the losses.

 

Flipping books I'd imagine is almost like playing cards in Vegas. You can't get fixated on the ones hands you lose through the process, just concern yourself with how much you can in with and what you're leaving the table with as your overall all-in win/loss. So, with selling books hopefully you'll profit more than you lose. If you're not, then maybe you should consider a different way to make money.

[Aweandlorder]

This is such a complex topic. First, even when you have 1000 x $20 books, and even when theyre all listed, and even if theyre 25 or 30 dollar books and your price is waaaaay below the market's average - youd still not flip these all at the 20 min rate as mentioned. Also, if you have a high end golden age book sitting there for an average going rate, it still wont flip right away. Youre at the mercy of the market, economy, and other on going trends.

I do not factor in time, I buy and sell comics for fun, I have plenty and I keep on buying, just because I would hate to lose out on a deal, and the next sweet deal is right there around the corner, on eBay, craigslist, or the weekend's yard sale/flee market.

I just do it for fun, I have no wife/kids, no stressful job, I have my own office during the day and theres absolutely NOTHING going on during the day here

So its usually these here boards, craigslist, eBay and the beetchez..

Please dont ask me to expand on the latter

 

And to answer the question, my rate is 3x my investment 90% of the time

[1Cool]

This is such a complex topic. First, even when you have 1000 x $20 books, and even when theyre all listed, and even if theyre 25 or 30 dollar books and your price is waaaaay below the market's average - youd still not flip these all at the 20 min rate as mentioned. Also, if you have a high end golden age book sitting there for an average going rate, it still wont flip right away. Youre at the mercy of the market, economy, and other on going trends.

I do not factor in time, I buy and sell comics for fun, I have plenty and I keep on buying, just because I would hate to lose out on a deal, and the next sweet deal is right there around the corner, on eBay, craigslist, or the weekend's yard sale/flee market.

I just do it for fun, I have no wife/kids, no stressful job, I have my own office during the day and theres absolutely NOTHING going on during the day here

So its usually these here boards, craigslist, eBay and the beetchez..

Please dont ask me to expand on the latter

 

And to answer the question, my rate is 3x my investment 90% of the time

 

I love that answer. I had a guy pass up on a small set of Silver-Age Spiderman books a year or so ago. He didn't think he could flip it for 3x the cost (we talked after I bought them) and I was more then happy to resell them for double the cost ($375 set of books). If I can sell 12 fairly hot books and make a $325 profit you can sign me up for that all year long.