Do comics ever go down in price?

[drbanner]

What I am bottom line questioning is whether comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure equal to their dollars invested... I see a lot of them as simply wanting to acquire the "next" book.

 

I believe the answer to this question is obvious - yes, or else they wouldn't be buying the book in the first place, right?

 

It seems what your really questioning is whether or not comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure that you perceive to be equal to their dollars invested...

[Aman619]

...but thats how it works... you scratch one off the want list and move on to the rest, moving to complete your collecting goal.

[delekkerste]

I think a growing fan base in Europe and elsewhere may well make up for any declining American fan base. That's my macro view.

 

I think this is highly optimistic and a very U.S.-centric view of the world. Even if these people watch these comic book movies and a few start picking up American comic books, how many of them are going to throw real cash into the market? Sure, anecdotally we can name a few people here and there, but stepping back and looking at the big picture...don't think so. Plus, the demographic and income trends are worse in Europe, and the rest of the world does not share our propensity to spend 99.8% of our income and pay high-interest credit card debt on consumption items. Nor does the rest of the world view comics as "investments"; since one's house is not even considered an investment in many other countries, American funny books are certainly not going to be viewed that way.

 

 

I believe comic book characters are always going to continue to be a part of popular culture. They are deeply ingrained in American culture (have been since their origin during the Depression). They are as American as apple pie.

 

First, that's an overstatement. Second, even if they are ingrained, it doesn't mean people will continue to want to spend thousands of dollars on books to keep the market rising. Third, something can be ingrained in American culture (like the whole western genre) and not be all that profitable to the owners of collectibles related to that genre.

 

 

Adults pass on their passions and interests to their kids (good and bad) whether they mean to or not.

 

I think many of those who intend to pass on their comic collecting passions to their kids will find that they are not interested. We've had numerous documented cases even on these Boards with children of hardcore collectors. And, for those who are interested at age 8, 9 or 10, let's see how many are still interested at 18 and 25 and how many are spending thousands of dollars on the hobby at age 30, even if their incomes allow it at that time.

 

 

But I grew bored with the hobby because I couldn't afford the true rarities that I wanted to collect (e.g. it would take a long time for me to save enough money to afford something like a Dahlonega gold piece in nice condition).

 

And the same thing isn't happening with comics and comic art? Who wants to start a hobby where you know it will drain untold thousands of their dollars when there are so many alternatives in today's world? Today's inflated prices may well prove to be very high barriers to entry into the hobby for tomorrow's potential collectors.

[Foolkiller]

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

Those are all things important to the dicussion. I am simply raising the notion that once a book is acquired, there is little appreciation for it. Where is the value in it? I haven't heard anyone explain why they value their books so much... why it is worth it to them to pay huge sums of money for something they rarely look at. Why is it so valuable to them?

 

It seems that most comic collectors are saying that there is something inherently valuable in their owning a particular book. If a book sits in that box, can anyone tell me what value they are receiving from it?

 

What I am bottom line questioning is whether comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure equal to their dollars invested... I see a lot of them as simply wanting to acquire the "next" book.

 

I believe the answer to this question is obvious - yes, or else they wouldn't be buying the book in the first place, right?

 

It seems what your really questioning is whether or not comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure that you perceive to be equal to their dollars invested...

[drbanner]

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend money a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

Those are all things important to the dicussion. I am simply raising the notion that once a book is acquired, there is little appreciation for it. Where is the value in it? I haven't heard anyone explain why they value their books so much... why it is worth it to them to pay huge sums of money for something they rarely look at. Why is it so valuable to them?

 

It seems that most comic collectors are saying that there is something inherently valuable in their owning a particular book. If a book sits in that box, can anyone tell me what value they are receiving from it?

 

What I am bottom line questioning is whether comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure equal to their dollars invested... I see a lot of them as simply wanting to acquire the "next" book.

 

I believe the answer to this question is obvious - yes, or else they wouldn't be buying the book in the first place, right?

 

It seems what your really questioning is whether or not comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure that you perceive to be equal to their dollars invested...

 

True...the "emotional" value of the hobby is in the hunt, books do seem to be a little less desirable once you actually have assimilated them into the boxes.

 

I think the fact that there are many different types of collectibles with no real "value" (stamps, coins, etc.,.) shows that we (collectors in general) do place a value on owning the items, a value beyond the pleasure in the active part of the hobby (the hunt, attending cons, this message board, etc.,.).

[delekkerste]

While I agree with a lot of what you said, I still try to not think about macro economics in terms of absolutes. There are gradients at play and I believe that while its true new readers and collectors replace old - the level of replenishment is likely going to decrease as the population base decreases and new entries into the marketplace from whatever venue will not entirely fill the gap. Therefore the new equlibruim that is achieved will be a scaled down version of the existing market with fluctuations dependent on specialized mitigating factors across the board. [#@$%!!!] I hate sounding like an economist.

 

Good stuff.

 

We can disagree on what this new equilibrium will look like, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to continue to be up, up and away like we've seen in the past. There are just too many headwinds coming up to allow that to happen, IMO.

[Norrin_Radd]

I think a growing fan base in Europe and elsewhere may well make up for any declining American fan base. That's my macro view.

 

I think this is highly optimistic and a very U.S.-centric view of the world. Even if these people watch these comic book movies and a few start picking up American comic books, how many of them are going to throw real cash into the market? Sure, anecdotally we can name a few people here and there, but stepping back and looking at the big picture...don't think so.

 

 

Most of the BA books I sell have been going to Europe and Flying Donut has said the same. There are more European collectors for America comics.

 

 

Plus, the demographic and income trends are worse in Europe, and the rest of the world does not share our propensity to spend 99.8% of our income and pay high-interest credit card debt on consumption items. Nor does the rest of the world view comics as "investments"; since one's house is not even considered an investment in many other countries, American funny books are certainly not going to be viewed that way.

 

[shrunkenhead]

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

 

 

 

Why stockpile gold? Why the stock exchange? Why pass around pieces of green paper and little copper coins? We need something to do with ourselves for the 80 or so years ( ) we're around.

 

I think you're question is becoming less and less about comics and more and more about the problems of a capitalistic society. Not saying that's at all a bad thing, but just calling 'em as I see 'em.

[skybolt]

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

Those are all things important to the dicussion. I am simply raising the notion that once a book is acquired, there is little appreciation for it. Where is the value in it? I haven't heard anyone explain why they value their books so much... why it is worth it to them to pay huge sums of money for something they rarely look at. Why is it so valuable to them?

 

It seems that most comic collectors are saying that there is something inherently valuable in their owning a particular book. If a book sits in that box, can anyone tell me what value they are receiving from it?

 

What I am bottom line questioning is whether comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure equal to their dollars invested... I see a lot of them as simply wanting to acquire the "next" book.

 

I believe the answer to this question is obvious - yes, or else they wouldn't be buying the book in the first place, right?

 

It seems what your really questioning is whether or not comic book collectors are really deriving the pleasure that you perceive to be equal to their dollars invested...

 

I agree with what you're saying. When I finally find the book I'm looking for it just goes into a box. I might take out my collection and look at it every now and then, but that's it. However, why do I feel the separation anxiety when my books are at CGC to be graded, or if I sell off a book I really liked. It's kind of like owning a car or a television set, you don't think about them until they're gone.

 

I think another reason why comic book collectors spend big money on certain books, is to show off. Why do millionaires spend millions of dollars on certain paintings or sculptures. I doubt if they even look at the piece everyday, but they do get that sense of accomplishment when they show it off to their friends. It's a lot more appealing and self satisfying than just saying here's my swiss account bank book, can you top that! Do we compete against each other to own better collections, of course. Do we show off our collections to get positive responses from others, definitely.

[Foolkiller]

Gold and money have universal value that can be used to buy other things as a means to gain things that will supposedly ultimately bring us pleasure. That is their intended purpose. The same can be said with stocks, because they are used principally as a financial vessel in order to build wealth.

 

Comic books are not really meant to be financial investments (or they weren't originally intended to be that). Rather, they are meant to be forms of entertainment. In that form, for the $3 or so they cost to buy new, I believe they deliver on value. For various reasons, including scarcity and condition, if you want to buy an old comic to enjoy, you have to pay more. That's reasonable. You can also sell a comic to get money to use it for something else. But no one would say that gold, money or stocks are the source or the derivative of the pleasure itself. Comic books are supposed to be that. The comic book is supposed to be the object of the pleasure. What I am questioning is does an object, meant to bring you pleasure, equate to $10k of pleasure, or is it that most collectors of comic books spend that money for other reasons. When you own something that sits for a long time hidden away, then what I am inherently questioning isn't the free market valuation system, but rather that the comic books do not reach an appreciation value commensurate with the amount of money spent on them in some of the higher dollar cases (or in any purchase amount really).

 

Again, it's not even a criticism on materialism or comic books, simply the investment of an amount of money into something that I'm not sure an equal amount of pleasure is derived.

 

To put it another way, can we really say, "that was money well spent". I am not assuming that the answer is always no. Many times the answer is yes. There are several instances where I believe the answer would be no.

 

Yes, what you are saying is partially true. My value judgment is being imposed inherently into the question itself. But I have been asking a broader question overall as well. What constitutes value? What is truly valuable? How should we value something that sits a box 99% of the time? Is it wise to spend a large proportion of our money on such things?

 

 

 

 

Why stockpile gold? Why the stock exchange? Why pass around pieces of green paper and little copper coins? We need something to do with ourselves for the 80 or so years ( ) we're around.

 

I think you're question is becoming less and less about comics and more and more about the problems of a capitalistic society. Not saying that's at all a bad thing, but just calling 'em as I see 'em.

[skybolt]

But no one would say that gold, money or stocks are the source or the derivative of the pleasure itself.

 

Tell that to women.

[Norrin_Radd]

Gold and money have universal value that can be used to buy other things as a means to gain things that will supposedly ultimately bring us pleasure. That is their intended purpose. The same can be said with stocks, because they are used principally as a financial vessel in order to build wealth.

 

Gold can NOT be used to buy other things and neither can stocks. You cannot walk into a grocery store with an ounce of gold or a stock certificate and buy groceries. They have to be sold to generate cash, same as comics.

 

Comic books are not really meant to be financial investments (or they weren't originally intended to be that). Rather, they are meant to be forms of entertainment. In that form, for the $3 or so they cost to buy new, I believe they deliver on value. For various reasons, including scarcity and condition, if you want to buy an old comic to enjoy, you have to pay more. That's reasonable. You can also sell a comic to get money to use it for something else. But no one would say that gold, money or stocks are the source or the derivative of the pleasure itself. Comic books are supposed to be that. The comic book is supposed to be the object of the pleasure. What I am questioning is does an object, meant to bring you pleasure, equate to $10k of pleasure, or is it that most collectors of comic books spend that money for other reasons.

 

Nothing you spend $10K on gives $10K worth of pleasure or entertainment. You spend $10K to own something that is worth $10K that also happens to give you some level of pleasure or entertainment.

[shadroch]

The overseas market for siver and bronze age books,especially marvels,is huge.Maybe not for ultra-HG books,but your average mid-grade Spidey will sell as often as you put them up for sale.

There was a time,quite recently, where I was trying to complete my run of every Marvel from 12 cent covers to the end of the bronze age.

Last year almost half my comic spending was on that goal. I hope to eventually complete the run but its not as big a priority just now.

I believe my comics and other collectables are,and will remain, a crucial part of my retirement funding.Not the main source,nor even a major source,but certainly an important part.

[Foolkiller]

Actually, gold can be used to purchase items in certain parts of the world. And incidentally, if you'd like to pay me in gold for comics, I'd be happy to take it. As for stocks, you'll notice I qualified that in my original post.

 

As for your second point, I totally disagree. There are plenty of things that may bring you $10k worth of pleasure. That's a bit subjective and ultimately difficult to prove, but conceptually, I don't agree with your point.

[Norrin_Radd]

Actually, gold can be used to purchase items in certain parts of the world. And incidentally, if you'd like to pay me in gold for comics, I'd be happy to take it.

 

Right.

 

In America and Europe, you cannot walk into a store and buy something with a gold bar. It has ceased to be a medium of exchange in the civilized world. It is only a store of value. Comics can be a store of value also. And like gold, demand can fluctuate. However, unlike gold which is continuing to be mined from the earth, rare SA keys are a static supply.

 

As for your second point, I totally disagree. There are plenty of things that may bring you $10k worth of pleasure. That's a bit subjective and ultimately difficult to prove, but conceptually, I don't agree with your point.

 

It's subjective and I guess we disagree on this point.

[Foolkiller]

No seriously, I'd take gold for my comics.

[Norrin_Radd]

No seriously, I'd take gold for my comics.

 

You are a oddity then. Most people prefer an easier and more liquid means of transaction (i.e. digital money via PayPal or CC).

[comicwiz]

Right now, I believe, is the "Golden Age of Selling Your Collection" - I'd be surprised if it's going to get much better than this. I've personally been selling my books since last fall and continue to do so.

 

I too have been selling my own books for some time, and although its certainly cause for celebration that comics have been yielding impressive returns for the past 5 years, especially since the explosion of third-party certification, I also reserve the recognition that this market has had quite a few surprises up its sleeve -- at least since I first entered into it some 17 years ago.

 

For this reason, I'm always skeptical towards any blanket statement that places collectors in the middle of any so-called heyday of "comic values" -- a discussion that seems to arise anytime the market reveals any signs of protracted stability, upturn or growth.

[Aman619]

As for your second point, I totally disagree. There are plenty of things that may bring you $10k worth of pleasure. That's a bit subjective and ultimately difficult to prove, but conceptually, I don't agree with your point.

 

Im trying to think of smething that is "worth" 10K worth odf pleasure. Closets I can come to is 1000 blewjubs at $10 a pop. But while thats a joke, it points the the farcical nature of the queston.

 

please DEFINE 10K worth of pleasure? other than paying 10K for something that is generally perceived to be valued at 10K and is something that gives you pleasure. Could be ANYTHING, couldnt it? Unless you personally think SOME things are worth it, and other arent, but then youd be judging anothers' tastes...

[Aman619]

For this reason, I'm always skeptical towards any blanket statement that places collectors in the middle of any so-called heyday of "comic values" -- a discussion that seems to arise anytime the market reveals any signs of protracted stability, upturn or growth.

 

ar eyou saying that this isnt a heyday but merely a point on a curve?

And as the history so far of comics values has gone, specifically a point on an upward sloping curve?

If not, this WOULD be considerd the "last Heyday!".