Value: Image vs Nostalgia?

[Terry Doyle]

K, so a few thoughts from the peanut gallery (me)...

 

1.) I am seeing your points and you guys are simply talking past each other.

 

2. The entire premise of the question is a farce. Or at best, misguided when phrased as a question.

 

To me, it is abundantly clear that the way in which the majority function within these abstract concepts, nostalgia trumps image. That said, it does not negate it.

 

But it is all shades of gray anyway.

Image = quality.

Nostalgia = awareness.

Image = content.

Nostalgia= sentimentality.

 

These vague words could go a dozen ways each and change the inflection of the arguments, but not ultimately the outcomes.

 

The Mona Lisa always gets trotted out in art debates, and it is a perfect example here. I've mentioned this before, but as a work of art it was completely irrelevant to the public until it was stolen by a janitor, and made all the newspapers world wide. After that its reputation rose and rose, due in no small part to its infamy. And as usual the artistic scholars came late to the party, and more and more was written of its cultural significance, about the smile, etc and so on.

 

It's the same argument that is driving the action1 comic vs cover oa discussion in the other thread. And the thing that so many people here discuss and agonize over mentally when bidding, and in the various hypothetical pricing threads all the time. Where on the spectrum do pieces land?

 

So symantically the arguments vary, but at their core the historical result is clear. It's that Mona Lisa effect all over again and again. McSpidey is the Mona Lisa. There, I said it.

 

And it doesn't change my opinion of either one of those pieces. Their ultimate visual qualities remain the same before and after billions of people were aware of them. I can appreciate the amazing characteristics of a piece of art that everyone loves, and I can appreciate the characteristics of a piece of art that only I know about in equal measure. But I am aware of the valuation effect that the former has over the latter.

 

So...

 

Good post, Eric. The original question posed left itself open to different interpretations.

[vodou]

The original question posed left itself open to different interpretations.

It's cuz Bronty sux. Not a deep thinker that guy. I just skip all his posts.

[Terry Doyle]

The original question posed left itself open to different interpretations.

It's cuz Bronty sux. Not a deep thinker that guy. I just skip all his posts.

 

 

Sorry, Bronty . . .

[alxjhnsn]

I've bought one piece strictly for nostalgia - a page from my first ever comic.

 

I have a number of pieces (mostly commissions) by the artists I grew up with doing the characters that I most associate with them; you know the list: Swan/Superman, Swan/Legion, Cardy/Bat Lash, Kubert/Sgt. Rock, Colan/DD, and so on.

 

Buying them was really more about the contact with the artist and the general sense of connection to the past than nostalgia for specific issues.

 

However, a bunch of my collection is from recent artists - Zahler/L&C, CPW3/TSoL, Naifeh/Princess Ugg, and so on that I bought strictly for the image.

 

In short, for me, there is no one answer, but there does seem to be a segmentation between now (image) and then (association to my favorite characters and artists).

[mister_not_so_nice]

I've bought one piece strictly for nostalgia - a page from my first ever comic.

 

I have a number of pieces (mostly commissions) by the artists I grew up with doing the characters that I most associate with them; you know the list: Swan/Superman, Swan/Legion, Cardy/Bat Lash, Kubert/Sgt. Rock, Colan/DD, and so on.

 

Buying them was really more about the contact with the artist and the general sense of connection to the past than nostalgia for specific issues.

 

However, a bunch of my collection is from recent artists - Zahler/L&C, CPW3/TSoL, Naifeh/Princess Ugg, and so on that I bought strictly for the image.

 

In short, for me, there is no one answer, but there does seem to be a segmentation between now (image) and then (association to my favorite characters and artists).

 

This needs to be added to you frequent post regarding OA value

 

 

Am I going to have to be the one to start "The Official "let's debate the value of every piece on CAF ad nauseam" Thread" thread

[Terry Doyle]

I've bought one piece strictly for nostalgia - a page from my first ever comic.

 

I have a number of pieces (mostly commissions) by the artists I grew up with doing the characters that I most associate with them; you know the list: Swan/Superman, Swan/Legion, Cardy/Bat Lash, Kubert/Sgt. Rock, Colan/DD, and so on.

 

Buying them was really more about the contact with the artist and the general sense of connection to the past than nostalgia for specific issues.

 

However, a bunch of my collection is from recent artists - Zahler/L&C, CPW3/TSoL, Naifeh/Princess Ugg, and so on that I bought strictly for the image.

 

In short, for me, there is no one answer, but there does seem to be a segmentation between now (image) and then (association to my favorite characters and artists).

 

Am I going to have to be the one to start "The Official "let's debate the value of every piece on CAF ad nauseam" Thread" thread

 

Please . . . no

 

[Bronty]

The original question posed left itself open to different interpretations.

It's cuz Bronty sux. Not a deep thinker that guy. I just skip all his posts.

 

 

Sorry, Bronty . . .

 

it's ok. I'll sort vodou out later. Not sure you're interpreting that as he meant it though

[Terry Doyle]

The original question posed left itself open to different interpretations.

It's cuz Bronty sux. Not a deep thinker that guy. I just skip all his posts.

 

 

Sorry, Bronty . . .

 

it's ok. I'll sort vodou out later. Not sure you're interpreting that as he meant it though

 

My last response to you before I start skipping through your posts . . .

[Bronty]

I love ya Terry even if you do tell the same story every week

 

You liked this stuff early on and that I'm happy to give you credit for

[Terry Doyle]

I love ya Terry even if you do tell the same story every week

 

You should hear my repetoire of jokes.

 

Oops, forgot to skip through your posts.

[r100comics]

Your personal situation while interesting hasn't added anything new to the conversation.

I've sold a lot of art to collectors who (like me) had no nostalgic connection to the art.

Okay you've got my attention, care to share examples? My experience is what you're talking about is not a common occurrence. Or let me rephrase, not common in the over $1k market, lots of "it's cool, I'll take it" action in the three figures!

 

Sold a lot of EC art (top price $50,000 for a single piece) to collectors younger than me . . . Frank Hampson (Dan Dare pages averaging about $4,000 a page) . . . same with Frank Bellamy pages (latter two British artists). Lots of other stuff, but those are some examples for you. Probably sold somewhere in the region of $500,000 worth of art in the last ten years. Some of it to nostalgia-based collectors, yes, but a lot of it not

 

Sounds like you bought very astutely but I'm surprised you were able to buy 2 houses and retire on £330k-odd ?

 

I don't live in London. Lucky to buy a shoe-box there, I would imagine.

 

Two houses? A sweeping generalization on my behalf (I don't always see the need to go the route of detailed explanation) . . . the mechanics work differently to what you're perhaps thinking.

 

Art sales paid the outstanding mortgage off on one house . . . and later on paid for a move to a bigger place in a different area (combining proceeds of the sales from house # 1, together with art sales funding which allowed me to remain mortgage free).

 

Seven years away from my official retirement age, at which point various pensions kick-in. Proceeds from sales earlier this year will bridge the gap nicely (with no dip in my standard of living) and I still retain quite a lot of nice art I can sell at some future point if need be.

 

 

Awesome Terry !

 

Great to hear how a hobby you've had so much enjoyment from has also enabled you to make so many life enhancing choices.

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

Thanks!

[Terry Doyle]

. . . and as an afterthought, when you're a younger collector you tend not to worry too much about what the future might hold for the treasures you continue to amass throughout your active years. As you grow older (I'm 59 next month), you begin to shift your focus more towards what's going to happen to your collection once you depart planet earth (sorry, not trying to sound morbid, just realistic . . . something that's going to affect everyone here at some future point).

 

My wife, who is likely to outlive me (as she's ten years younger), wouldn't have a clue what to do with my collection (unless I leave detailed instructions, which is the kind of thing I keep putting off doing as it's depressing stuff to want to dwell on).

 

Although I sold-off a lot of high-end stuff to help fund major lifestyle changes over the course of the past ten years, I also still collect (within my allotted monthly budget). Thankfully, my collecting tastes have always been fairly eclectic, so I can still find lots of interesting art at affordable prices (art I like, rather than art I think is likely to skyrocket in value at some future point . . . I've never been a speculator on such things, just passionate about what I collect). Probably different to a lot of folk here that focus on (now) expensive superhero stuff (I like superhero art from the 1960s, but lean more towards Science Fiction, Horror and other things).

 

As a side-note, I think it's likely that Doc Dave is selling-off his Frazetta collection for similar reasons to myself (I didn't ask, as it's none of my business).

 

Maybe grounds here for another thread?

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

 

My wife, who is likely to outlive me (as she's ten years younger), wouldn't have a clue what to do with my collection (unless I leave detailed instructions, which is the kind of thing I keep putting off doing as it's depressing stuff to want to dwell on).

 

 

Don't give her any ideas now, put it in a letter so she can read when the time comes!

[Terry Doyle]

 

My wife, who is likely to outlive me (as she's ten years younger), wouldn't have a clue what to do with my collection (unless I leave detailed instructions, which is the kind of thing I keep putting off doing as it's depressing stuff to want to dwell on).

 

 

Don't give her any ideas now, put it in a letter so she can read when the time comes!

 

Well, she does have a habit at looking at framed stuff and asking , "How Much is that worth?"

[Bronty]

 

My wife, who is likely to outlive me (as she's ten years younger), wouldn't have a clue what to do with my collection (unless I leave detailed instructions, which is the kind of thing I keep putting off doing as it's depressing stuff to want to dwell on).

 

 

Don't give her any ideas now, put it in a letter so she can read when the time comes!

 

Well, she does have a habit at looking at framed stuff and asking , "How Much is that worth?"

 

They notice when the money becomes real (as you bought a house with, you said).

 

I sold some spare stuff that I put towards real life purposes as well and sometimes get similar reaction from the the wife. She's kidding.. kinda. Not really.

[aokartman]

My wife's favorite refrain is " You got any more of those?" It betrays a little of her innocence, yet I wonder who is really in charge of disbursing my collection. I'm just 61 years old, but old enough now to be selling more than buying. She is still active and selling her own art in the $500-$3000 range, so it's tough to keep up. She can just paint some more, and I have to check the attic until that well is dry. I try to reinvest, but it's so volatile right now. It was a no-brainer to buy OA when vintage was everywhere and cheap, not so much now, but that's the exciting part. Investing in something you enjoy is never a bad thing.

I graduated college as an artist, got into comic books I never dreamed I could afford, and then realized there was an after-market of the original comic art which was intimate, cheap, and very interesting to me. I think some comic artists still tend to undervalue their work to this day.

Rambling on, David

 

LINK TO JULIE ALBRIGHT Oil Painter Website

[Terry Doyle]

 

My wife, who is likely to outlive me (as she's ten years younger), wouldn't have a clue what to do with my collection (unless I leave detailed instructions, which is the kind of thing I keep putting off doing as it's depressing stuff to want to dwell on).

 

 

Don't give her any ideas now, put it in a letter so she can read when the time comes!

 

Well, she does have a habit at looking at framed stuff and asking , "How Much is that worth?"

 

They notice when the money becomes real (as you bought a house with, you said).

 

I sold some spare stuff that I put towards real life purposes as well and sometimes get similar reaction from the the wife. She's kidding.. kinda. Not really.

 

Well, she started that little game years ago, but used to give a, "Yeah, right," sort of look when I mentioned ball-park figures (same kind of thing used to happen with friends who have no understanding of this hobby).

 

Now she's a believer (and my friends are also converts). Not sure if that's a good thing, though . . .

[Bronty]

my point exactly

[delekkerste]

Back to the original question of image vs. nostalgia, I just wanted to relay this anecdote. I recently met a New York-area collector for the first time whose collecting focus has narrowed so much over the years that now he just collects art from a very brief window from his youth (something like only art from 1977-79 - the window was only 2 or 3 years long). While I'm sure he cares about image, if it doesn't fall within his range of peak nostalgia, it's not for him.

 

I like art from all eras. I recently bought a piece from the 2000s and one from the 1930s in the same auction (though, the character in the 1930s piece was one I was very fond of as a young child). But, I'd say that, generally speaking, my interest is becoming more and more nostalgia focused over time. The only Silver Age stuff that I'd even potentially be interested in acquiring these days are from the few things I read via reprints in my youth (Ditko/Romita Spidey through Marvel Tales, Adams X-Men through the X-Men Classics mini-series, etc.) - my focus has really shifted strongly to certain Bronze Age art (again, much of which was discovered as a youth through reprint titles like Classic X-Men, Conan Saga, etc., as well as some back issues of titles like Red Sonja and Tomb of Dracula) and the Copper Age art I grew up with.

 

Material from the first half of the '80s in particular is of maximum interest to me nowadays; I could see there coming a time when my collecting focus eventually narrows down to a very short period of time like 1983-1986, the years of peak nostalgia for me! Of course, within that nostalgic framework, I want to pick the best images, but, for me, it definitely starts with nostalgia first these days.