DC war comics: where to begin?

[DavidTheDavid]

A bit of background for you. Some of my earliest memories with comics, and probably the earliest, involve my cousin's comic stash. Each summer, we'd make a long, dreary drive from Tennessee to Oklahoma, and I'd watch the landscape turn from green to brown. My great-grandparents lived in a small town that had never recovered from a busted oil boom that never quite boomed. For a young boy, reading was the sole escape. My cousin Robert had a stack, not even a proper box, of comics that included DC horror comics like Witching Hour, subversie comics and magazines like Plop! and Mad Magazine, and a good supply of war comics. I remember Jeb Stuart and the Haunted Tank, Sgt. Rock, and the Unknown Soldier. Joe Kubert was the first artist's name I learned, and even as a young collector, barely a teenager, I had an eye out for Kubert coimcs.

 

So here I am, in the rather common situation of being a middle-aged collector who sold off his collection in his early twenties and is now rediscovering those comics and all the creative talents who made them. I've been eager to get back into DC war comics, but man, it's an unfamiliar world through these adult collector's eyes. I've already learned hard lessons about going whole hog into a title or character. I've already learned about following whims. And I'm still learning about narrowing a focus and what it means to actually have a "collection," as in a curated selection of books that comes from knowledgeable intent.

 

So here I am, asking you for information. Yes, I realize that am I currently using an internet-connected device, and that Google can do a hell of a lot for me. And yes, I have been doing some digging and will continue doing so, but nothing compares to the experience of long-time collectors, the knowledge of people who've steeped themselves in genres, and all that "learning from the wealth of others" jazz.

 

If you've made it this far, I'm hoping that you can tell me a few things. For example: I've enjoyed reading some well-written, informative non-fiction books on the history of Marvel comics. What books do you recommend to learn about important artists of the genre, the genre itself, corporate history around it, the relation of historical events to artists or runs, and so on. What are some artists I should look into? What are the classic covers? What are the great story lines? What am I not asking that I should consider?

 

Thanks for your insights, folks. This is an area that goes beyond childhood nostalgia as I've developed a deeper appreciation of comics and their creation, and I also read a great deal of WWII history. I'm about halfway through Rick Atkinson's The Guns At Last Light, the third of his astounding WWII trilogy written as historical narrative. I read a good bit about the Civil War, too, so J.E.B Stuart, hit me up, yo!

 

 

 

 

[MusterMark]

A bit of background for you. Some of my earliest memories with comics, and probably the earliest, involve my cousin's comic stash. Each summer, we'd make a long, dreary drive from Tennessee to Oklahoma, and I'd watch the landscape turn from green to brown. My great-grandparents lived in a small town that had never recovered from a busted oil boom that never quite boomed. For a young boy, reading was the sole escape. My cousin Robert had a stack, not even a proper box, of comics that included DC horror comics like Witching Hour, subversie comics and magazines like Plop! and Mad Magazine, and a good supply of war comics. I remember Jeb Stuart and the Haunted Tank, Sgt. Rock, and the Unknown Soldier. Joe Kubert was the first artist's name I learned, and even as a young collector, barely a teenager, I had an eye out for Kubert coimcs.

 

So here I am, in the rather common situation of being a middle-aged collector who sold off his collection in his early twenties and is now rediscovering those comics and all the creative talents who made them. I've been eager to get back into DC war comics, but man, it's an unfamiliar world through these adult collector's eyes. I've already learned hard lessons about going whole hog into a title or character. I've already learned about following whims. And I'm still learning about narrowing a focus and what it means to actually have a "collection," as in a curated selection of books that comes from knowledgeable intent.

 

So here I am, asking you for information. Yes, I realize that am I currently using an internet-connected device, and that Google can do a hell of a lot for me. And yes, I have been doing some digging and will continue doing so, but nothing compares to the experience of long-time collectors, the knowledge of people who've steeped themselves in genres, and all that "learning from the wealth of others" jazz.

 

If you've made it this far, I'm hoping that you can tell me a few things. For example: I've enjoyed reading some well-written, informative non-fiction books on the history of Marvel comics. What books do you recommend to learn about important artists of the genre, the genre itself, corporate history around it, the relation of historical events to artists or runs, and so on. What are some artists I should look into? What are the classic covers? What are the great story lines? What am I not asking that I should consider?

 

Thanks for your insights, folks. This is an area that goes beyond childhood nostalgia as I've developed a deeper appreciation of comics and their creation, and I also read a great deal of WWII history. I'm about halfway through Rick Atkinson's The Guns At Last Light, the third of his astounding WWII trilogy written as historical narrative. I read a good bit about the Civil War, too, so J.E.B Stuart, hit me up, yo!

 

 

 

 

Dear DTD,

Wow, great post.

There are so many ways to answer your many wonderful questions.

At this point, may I just point out a few things.

 

1. I'm sure you're aware of the venerable War Comics thread here in the Silver area. If you're not, let me tell you: it is a treasure trove of amazing info, from start to finish.

 

2. Books, you say? There are many. One of my favorites is Chris Pedrin's guide to the Big Five. Even though some of the info needs some revisions, It is like Wow.

 

3. Absolutely recommended very highly are the "War Reports" in OSPG, that have been running for the last 5 or 6 Overstreets. Partly written/contributed to by two of our illustrious boardies thirdgreenham and Comick1 (experts!).

 

This is just a start. There is much more to say, and I'm sure will be said here in this thread by other boardies.

 

Welcome to the fascinating world of War Comics!

 

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

I would say the DC war line kept up the quality all the way to the end when Sgt. Rock was canceled in 1988. Another nice thing about the war line is that almost all of them are one and done issues, often with killer backup stories as well.

 

I would seek out Our Army at War 244 with Easy's First Tiger. I think it's the best art job in war comics ever. I like the Anzio two-parter in Sgt. Rock 303 and 304, I believe.There are a lot of good Unknown Soldier one-shots. I really like the ones maybe between 201 and 220.

 

Any Mlle. Marie appearance is great. The war issue of DC Super Stars is fantastic, with all the main DC war characters and Marie trying to kill the Unknown Soldier, as usual.

 

You've also got to check out the early Enemy Ace appearances too.

 

And I consider Detective Comics 404 an honorary war comic.

 

Also, the Sam Glanzman graphic novels, A Sailor's Story, et al.

[Dr. Love]

David, I was where you're at not too long ago. A daunting task, but at least you've made some of the essential first line decisions: GA vs SA, DC vs Atlas. Still, within DC and the Big 5, there are still a whole lotta books.

 

I find GCD is invaluable at this point. From a purely aesthetic viewpoint. I'll just run a title and see what pulls at me. I keep a notepad handy and let my mind go free and just jot down issues that I get an immediate gut reaction to. After a while a consensus emerges. In my case, it was Heath Grandenetti over Kubert, grey tones and certain point of view covers over others.

 

Like this one. Knew the second I saw it that this was The One. Turned out it was one of The Ones. But I realized it didn't require decision making, just seeing. That's if you're cover oriented - but most of us are at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MusterMark]

David, I was where you're at not too long ago. A daunting task, but at least you've made some of the essential first line decisions: GA vs SA, DC vs Atlas. Still, within DC and the Big 5, there are still a whole lotta books.

 

I find GCD is invaluable at this point. From a purely aesthetic viewpoint. I'll just run a title and see what pulls at me. I keep a notepad handy and let my mind go free and just jot down issues that I get an immediate gut reaction to. After a while a consensus emerges. In my case, it was Heath over Kubert, grey tones and certain point of view covers over others.

 

Like this one. Knew the second I saw it that this was The One. Turned out it was one of The Ones. But I realized it didn't require decision making, just seeing. That's if you're cover oriented - but most of us are at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

O my, are we going to have to start calling you "Dr. Love and War"?!

All is fair in Dr. Love and War !

I'm cracking up over here ...

 

And um yes, love your GCD idea.

Though of course

David has to figure out things like: cover art vs. story/writing. Interior art? Etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crimebuster]

My favorite titles and stories are mostly Bronze Age, so take that for what it's worth, but I'm a big fan of Unknown Soldier and The Losers. Both had long runs that are not expensive to complete. I'm also a fan of Weird War Tales, and the Sam Glanzman U.S.S,. Stevens backup stories would make for an interesting collecting goal.

 

For Silver Age, Mme. Marie's short run in Star-Spangled War Stories is a great place to start. Only a few issues, but not easy to find. Achievable, but still enough of a challenge to make it interesting. I also like the Johnny Cloud run in All-American men of War.

[Zonker]

From a reader's perspective, let me offer 3 runs from 3 different eras:

 

Silver Age: Kanigher & Kubert's Enemy Ace, including the 3 tryouts in Our Army at War, the 2 Showcase outings, and then the feature's semi-permanent home in Star-Spangled War #138-150.

 

Early Bronze Age: the Archie Goodwin edited issues of Our Fighting Forces, featuring the Losers by Kanigher and the great John Severin. OFF #144-150. Hidden gems abound in the backup stories as well.

 

Late Bronze Age: the Unknown Soldier as written by David Michelinie in Star-Spangled War #183-203. This run takes war-time moral ambiguity to a new level, rarely seen in mainstream commercial war comics. Gerry Talaoc's art is an acquired taste, but I think it fits these particular stories perfectly.

 

Enjoy!

[jimjum12]

Just remember you don't have to have them ALL. There are literally hundreds of covers that have that "wow" factor.... and many of them have quality within as well. For me, if it has a phat cover and some Kubert and Drucker inside, it's a wrap. Might I suggest starting with the "gray tone" covers ? They're listed in the latest OPG in the War Report section. My finances are limited, especially now, so I only have a few. My collection has been restricted to just a few nice examples of favorite titles and genres.... and I'm OK with it. It might be a good way for you to start..... a couple favorites from each title, to see if it's what you really want to do. Prices can vary widely in regards to condition, as high grade 50's and early 60's copies can be scarce..... but solid pretty VG/F's can be very reasonable. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[David Bottoms]

DC War, oh yeah.......

 

As I wrote in my intro, I'm also a Dave who foolishly jettisoned his holdings back in the day. I've since rediscovered the simple physical joy of comics: their particular heft, feel in the hand and so forth...and the smell. NOTHING smells like vintage newsprint, and it's completely intoxicating.

Yep, I remember seeing Enemy Ace and Sgt. Rock in older relatives' collections, then when I started to buy (ca. 1971) it was Bronze-age War time at the OK Corral. Recently, I found a funky little shop in Monroe, Louisiana while I was there for work. LOADS of BA, so I loaded the heck up. Especially as they were 2-3 bucks a pop, AND the guy gave bulk discounts. Back I went to the hotel room, where I got drunk as a skunk on Big 5 gems, Adventure (Black Orchid/Spectre/Aquaman run!), Boy Commandos, Weird War, some early bronze Superman, trippy gothic DC romance, etc.........only got a couple greytone war, but a few elsewhere, including a Sea Devils that makes me swoon every time I see it....

 

HERE'S TO THE HUNT, FELLOW DAVE.

[Dr. Love]

Got my publishers mixed up

 

That's Heath over Maneely for Atlas, Grandennetti over Kubert for DC. If one had to choose, which happily is not the case.

 

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Russ Heath's work on Our Army At War in the 70s is among his finest. As good or better than anything he ever did. You get the best of both worlds, Kubert covers and Heath interiors. Even the back up features in many of these issues are good to great quality.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Russ Heath's work on Our Army At War in the 70s is among his finest. As good or better than anything he ever did. You get the best of both worlds, Kubert covers and Heath interiors. Even the back up features in many of these issues are good to great quality.

 

Agree fully. If you have a Kubert cover, a Kanigher/Heath Rock story, and a USS Stevens backup, that's awesome stem to stern.

[KPR Comics]

I'm putting together the entire set of Big 5, and because I'm not chasing grades, it's easy and inexpensive. Literally only a handful (ok, maybe two) of keys, so there's plenty out there to be had in low grade. You can walk out of shows with stacks and because there are so many issues, you can take your time. If you feel like you need some satisfaction in completing a title, by all means consider branching out to titles like Weird War Tales (124 issues) and Men of War (26 issues).

Happy hunting.

 

[comick1]

All of these guys have sage advice. Right on, fellers! I couldn't help noticing that virtually ALL of them mentioned USS Stevens. That series might very well be the most under-rated comics work in any title, and any genre from any era. The word EVER comes to mind. Sam Glanzman's collected USS Stevens will be coming out in hardcover sometime in 2016 and I can't wait. All of those are worth searching out and they're peppered throughout the 4 titles in various places over the course of about 7 years. All are affordable and wonderful.

 

High grade or low grade?

 

10¢ers are so uncommon that you'll either pay through the nose or you'll get lucky on a couple here and there but wind up having a couple comics to your name that aren't necessarily within your collecting focus. Mid-grade ones are usually a good alternative because they don't tend to go at auction or demand as much of a premium. Low grade copies of 10¢era are relatively common on virtually any issue, though the ultra keys can get costly. The aforementioned SSWS 84-91 are popular enough that even beat copies routinely get some aggressive bidding on eBay.

 

12¢ers can be expensive in grade, but tend to be more plentiful in general. A good indicator is the prevalence of high-priced "Buy it Now" 12¢ war books on eBay. They're definitely around, but either way overpriced or everybody already has a decent copy. The boxed 12¢ers are still tough, but not as widely collected. I'm still missing a number of these in grade even though I've been collecting them for 25 years.

 

Bronze-age comics in grade tend to be pretty affordable, but because of how plentiful they are (and with extensive runs for each title), don't typically comprise a particularly rosy return on investment unless you're getting a REALLY good deal. (50% or less of Overstreet?)

 

I think Jeffro, AndyG, and me tend to be on the younger end of war collectors. Speaking for myself, I'm 45. In terms of investments, I don't see most war comics as particularly strong long-term investments because, unless something remarkable happens, most of the collectors of this genre will be well past retirement or their families will be selling their collections post-mortem (that's MY plan anyway). There are new collectors coming in, but probably not in the numbers necessary to create a significant demand for the runs and--like I said before, unless something unforeseen happens--more will be exiting war comics than entering in the coming decades.

 

Yes, there will always be collectors who want a key or a certain book. That GIC 104 that Andy posted is relatively available in all but the highest grades, but it's definitely been a sought-after one more so than the surrounding issues. Eventually, for books like that, the demand will outstrip the supply and it'll probably ALWAYS be a sought-after copy regardless of how vibrant the war collectors base is. This will be true of the obvious things like OAAW 83-112, 128, 151, GIC 87-100ish, OFF 45, SSWS 84-100, the perty thirty, and select covers peppered throughout the Big-5 runs.

I don't have a crystal ball, but that's the way it appears from my standpoint.

 

I would do what all hardcore collectors do, research (like you're doing now) and go for stuff that you really like. You can tell by the number of enthusiastic responses that there are some veteran collectors who just LOVE this stuff. It's an acquired taste but once you get the bug, it's tough to leave it behind. Definitely check out the war comics thread. I think we've discussed EVERYTHING here, but in depth 10X over. Much of the ideas I get for the OPG articles of the last few years have evolved from conversations in that war comics thread.

Keep us updated with cool grabs!

 

 

 

[KPR Comics]

Agreed, all great advice. And if you ever get bored, you may find yourself picking up things like this:

 

[FineCollector]

Good question. I'm a low-mid grade collector who has just wandered into the genre, so I'm still happy to find stacks of beaters at yard sales.

 

So far, not too many recommendations for the early material. Are posters just respecting the limits of the Silver Age, or is there less interest in general for the early material?

[HouseofComics.Com]

I feel like there's less you can say about the early material. Without continuing characters those stories are more plot driven and less character driven. Also, the stories are generally shorter, which leads to less chance of them being as memorable.

They are also harder to find, of course.

 

I do think the older material is written to a more adult level than most of the other comics from that period, so I do respect them. But for me, the older ones are more about the covers and there are lots of prime ones, even early on. For stuff later than that, I know the covers really well and love most of them, but it's the stories that are important to me.

 

Do we actually have any posters whose first DC war comics as a kid came in the 50s before the continuing characters? Probably not. Whereas anyone who came in even in the 80s could still have nostalgia for Rock and the Haunted Tank.

[HouseofComics.Com]

As a sidenote, All-American Men of War seems to be the least collected of the big five and part of that is the fact that it was canceled first and didn't A) develop continuing characters that really resonated and B) didn't run long enough for just about any of us to have any nostalgia for it. You'd have to be around 60+.

[FutureFlash]

I also started collecting the DC War titles last year. I can't believe I totally ignored these books in my first round of collecting from the mid 80s thru the late 90s. But I'm glad I discovered them upon my return.

 

Personally I am trying to collect every issue of the Big Five and will probably also do runs of Weird War Tales and Men of War. As for grade, I'm not being to picky about the 10 centers (as long as it has a cover). 12 centers I'm trying to get at least VG. For Bronze and later trying for at least VF.

 

It is a fun challenge to collect these books, some are very hard to find. Most of the local comic shops (around here) don't have much inventory of SA and older. So I've mostly had to resort to Ebay, the cgc boards and cons to find them.

 

And if you don't want to get all of the Big 5, these are other smaller runs a person could focus on such as the:

 

1. USS Stevens backups (just started reading a few of these myself, they are excellent.)

2. GIC Perty-thirty

3. Washtones covers

4. Mademoiselle Marie (SSWS)

5. Dinosaur Issues of SSWS (a bit different than the standard war stories, but hey it is dinosaurs and guns, what is not to like?)

6. Enemy Ace

7. Unknown Soldier

 

The people here on the boards are great resource, they have helped immensely on collecting DC War. Pedrin's Big 5 is also a great resource.

[DavidTheDavid]

Hey, wow--thanks, everyone! That's all more than I could have hoped for in replies.

 

I'd never even heard of the Big 5 before. That alone has got me going with Google.

 

I've been attracted to Russ Heath books for a while and found a nice low-grade copy on blazinbob's site with a Heath signature on the front, so I snagged that as a starter.

 

I'll be referring back here for information. Hopefully, I can find a copy of the Pedrin book, if not at a library, then somewhere with an affordable copy.

 

Weird War Tales has been on my radar as I've seen some interesting covers and it combines those two things that DC did so well in horror and war. I know I'd like to pick up a #1 and see them now and then--I'm sure I'll end up with one sooner or later.

 

Thanks again!

 

EDIT: In case someone hasn't seen this blog, it looks promising: http://silverandbronzeagesubjects.blogspot.com/2012/08/dc-big-5-war-comics-g-i-combat.html