Fantastic Four 76 Sold for $170,000 ?

[tth2]

I think # 40 may be the lowest number known to exist but somebody please correct me if they know of an earlier cover known to exist.

I thought I saw #32 on CAF a very long time ago. Or maybe Sotheby's/Christie's catalog in the 90s? Or I'm super wrong altogether (if so, sorry!)

 

Thats funny. I kind of remembering seeing it too (I think). Wasn't impressed with the cover at the time because I thought it was too high a number but with the dirth of Fantastic Four covers out there, I am sure I would feel very differently today. Quite frankly, it has excellent composition and would love to own it. But I imagine it is a 250k cover by now at least.

 

I went through my Sotheby's and Christie's auction catalogs this morning and didn't see an earlier FF cover. I am missing one catalog though from the first Sotheby's auction with comic stuff. I "loaned" it to a friend many years ago and never got it back

 

I was reminded that the Conan #1 cover sold for the lowly sum of $12,000 back then. Why I didn't buy it, I'll never know

 

Certainly have regretted it all these years though

 

Federal Reserve Notes (not to be confused with actual money) was much harder to come by all those years ago. $12,000 was a princely sum back then.

 

Nowadays, with all this money printing it is hard to remember that old economic reality.

 

Thank you Federal reserve for so distorting our economy we cant tell up from down. Price based on supply/demand.

 

We are blind out here. A game of pin the tail on the donkey.

A smart coach doesn't spend a lot of time railing at the fact that it's raining. He just quickly makes an assessment of the weather conditions and then adjusts his game plan accordingly.

[Peter G]

I think # 40 may be the lowest number known to exist but somebody please correct me if they know of an earlier cover known to exist.

I thought I saw #32 on CAF a very long time ago. Or maybe Sotheby's/Christie's catalog in the 90s? Or I'm super wrong altogether (if so, sorry!)

 

Thats funny. I kind of remembering seeing it too (I think). Wasn't impressed with the cover at the time because I thought it was too high a number but with the dirth of Fantastic Four covers out there, I am sure I would feel very differently today. Quite frankly, it has excellent composition and would love to own it. But I imagine it is a 250k cover by now at least.

 

I went through my Sotheby's and Christie's auction catalogs this morning and didn't see an earlier FF cover. I am missing one catalog though from the first Sotheby's auction with comic stuff. I "loaned" it to a friend many years ago and never got it back

 

I was reminded that the Conan #1 cover sold for the lowly sum of $12,000 back then. Why I didn't buy it, I'll never know

 

Certainly have regretted it all these years though

 

Federal Reserve Notes (not to be confused with actual money) was much harder to come by all those years ago. $12,000 was a princely sum back then.

 

Nowadays, with all this money printing it is hard to remember that old economic reality.

 

Thank you Federal reserve for so distorting our economy we cant tell up from down. Price based on supply/demand.

 

We are blind out here. A game of pin the tail on the donkey.

A smart coach doesn't spend a lot of time railing at the fact that it's raining. He just quickly makes an assessment of the weather conditions and then adjusts his game plan accordingly.

 

Oh, I placed my bets long long long ago. Now I am just watching the chaos. It is a very sad time for this country.

[zhamlau]

Not to sidetrack but it does seem like there is an awful lot of money out there, I'm glad you said something because none of this made any sense to me either. I keep thinking our economy is headed for a mind numbing collapse. Oh well I'll take my tinfoil hat off now.

[Peter G]

Not to sidetrack but it does seem like there is an awful lot of money out there, I'm glad you said something because none of this made any sense to me either. I keep thinking our economy is headed for a mind numbing collapse. Oh well I'll take my tinfoil hat off now.

 

This current time period is akin to Dicken's, A Tale of 2 Cities - It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair…

[Peter G]

.

but it does seem like there is an awful lot of money out there,

 

Asset inflation is the essence of the American economy right now. Inflate assets and allow the plebs to live off the equity. Even the Old Yellen said as much recently when she opined that to become rich, just "buy assets". There is very little actual growth out there.

[vodou]

Question: When the Euro currency breaks up, where will the fat chunks of hot sovereign and pension money go?

 

My answer: US for sure, but Treasuries, broad equities (think indexing) or...comic art? I dunno. Probably a fair bet to have coverage in as many different non-overplapping instruments as possible.

 

Peter - I don't think it's gold and silver...yet. That's for the space after USD (in the form of US government debt funding) collapses but before something else takes it's place (Yuan, SDR, Bitcoin, whatever..?)

 

Meanwhile the global hunt for taxes rages on. How long can investors reasonably expect to have unrealized gains (in anything -stocks, but art too) continue to be shielded from annual property taxes? The Swiss freeport system is collapsing as I write this...

[Peter G]

Question: When the Euro currency breaks up, where will the fat chunks of hot sovereign and pension money go?

 

My answer: US for sure, but Treasuries, broad equities (think indexing) or...comic art? I dunno. Probably a fair bet to have coverage in as many different non-overplapping instruments as possible.

 

Peter - I don't think it's gold and silver...yet. That's for the space after USD (in the form of US government debt funding) collapses but before something else takes it's place (Yuan, SDR, Bitcoin, whatever..?)

 

Meanwhile the global hunt for taxes rages on. How long can investors reasonably expect to have unrealized gains (in anything -stocks, but art too) continue to be shielded from annual property taxes? The Swiss freeport system is collapsing as I write this...

 

I think you are over thinking the issues. Everything you wrote is plausible but the uncertainty of the timing and the portability of the chattels make it an appealing asset class regardless of the money flows. To say nothing of the demand or price, classic Kirby Fantastic four covers are "important" and beautiful.

[Peter G]

One cannot talk about price when the whole world is a bubble. One could try in terms of gold perhaps but even that would be a futile exercise until our overlords tell us the new fixed price.

 

One cannot talk about demand because the whole world is s bubble. What is true demand ?

 

One cannot talk about money flows because the popping of the bubble is too unpredictable.

 

To be clear, OA is a diversification tool. And beautiful and important art to boot.

[vodou]

Question: When the Euro currency breaks up, where will the fat chunks of hot sovereign and pension money go?

 

My answer: US for sure, but Treasuries, broad equities (think indexing) or...comic art? I dunno. Probably a fair bet to have coverage in as many different non-overplapping instruments as possible.

 

Peter - I don't think it's gold and silver...yet. That's for the space after USD (in the form of US government debt funding) collapses but before something else takes it's place (Yuan, SDR, Bitcoin, whatever..?)

 

Meanwhile the global hunt for taxes rages on. How long can investors reasonably expect to have unrealized gains (in anything -stocks, but art too) continue to be shielded from annual property taxes? The Swiss freeport system is collapsing as I write this...

 

I think you are over thinking the issues. Everything you wrote is plausible but the uncertainty of the timing and the portability of the chattels make it an appealing asset class regardless of the money flows. To say nothing of the demand or price, classic Kirby Fantastic four covers are "important" and beautiful.

I'm not anti-comic art. Just the opposite, why else would I be here? But I think the other asset classes will benefit too -particularly as they traditionally are much more liquid and transparent. I can't pick which asset class would be the winner per se. The miniscule comic art market can't handle one or more sovereign wealth funds measured in the billions...and they don't want to stuff the portfolio with comic art either.

 

I think if property tax is redefined to include comic art (just as this hobby is shedding it's geekiness and finally being seen as more "comic ART" than "COMIC art", funny that!)...not a one of us would want to risk prosecution for under-reporting, tax evasion or money laundering. Right?

 

As of January 1st, 2016, ALL GREEKS must report their personal cash holdings, whatever jewelry they possess, and the contents of their storage facilities under penalty of criminal prosecution. The dictatorship of the Troika has demanded that Greeks will be the first to have to report all personal assets. Why the Greek government has NOT exited the Eurozone is just insanity. The Greek government has betrayed its own people to Brussels. The Troika will shake every Greek upside down until they rob every personal asset they have.

 

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39956

 

Just like bank bail-ins were first trial-ballooned in Cyprus two years ago, the EU and then USA followed later writing the same laws. No particular reason to think expansion of property tax wouldn't follow the same route. Broke governments need to raise revenue in the face of deflating economies.

[Peter G]

Question: When the Euro currency breaks up, where will the fat chunks of hot sovereign and pension money go?

 

My answer: US for sure, but Treasuries, broad equities (think indexing) or...comic art? I dunno. Probably a fair bet to have coverage in as many different non-overplapping instruments as possible.

 

Peter - I don't think it's gold and silver...yet. That's for the space after USD (in the form of US government debt funding) collapses but before something else takes it's place (Yuan, SDR, Bitcoin, whatever..?)

 

Meanwhile the global hunt for taxes rages on. How long can investors reasonably expect to have unrealized gains (in anything -stocks, but art too) continue to be shielded from annual property taxes? The Swiss freeport system is collapsing as I write this...

 

I think you are over thinking the issues. Everything you wrote is plausible but the uncertainty of the timing and the portability of the chattels make it an appealing asset class regardless of the money flows. To say nothing of the demand or price, classic Kirby Fantastic four covers are "important" and beautiful.

I'm not anti-comic art. Just the opposite, why else would I be here? But I think the other asset classes will benefit too -particularly as they traditionally are much more liquid and transparent. I can't pick which asset class would be the winner per se. The miniscule comic art market can't handle one or more sovereign wealth funds measured in the billions...and they don't want to stuff the portfolio with comic art either.

 

I think if property tax is redefined to include comic art (just as this hobby is shedding it's geekiness and finally being seen as more "comic ART" than "COMIC art", funny that!)...not a one of us would want to risk prosecution for under-reporting, tax evasion or money laundering. Right?

 

As of January 1st, 2016, ALL GREEKS must report their personal cash holdings, whatever jewelry they possess, and the contents of their storage facilities under penalty of criminal prosecution. The dictatorship of the Troika has demanded that Greeks will be the first to have to report all personal assets. Why the Greek government has NOT exited the Eurozone is just insanity. The Greek government has betrayed its own people to Brussels. The Troika will shake every Greek upside down until they rob every personal asset they have.

 

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/39956

 

Just like bank bail-ins were first trial-ballooned in Cyprus two years ago, the EU and then USA followed later writing the same laws. No particular reason to think expansion of property tax wouldn't follow the same route. Broke governments need to raise revenue in the face of deflating economies.

 

It is certainly a scary & uncertain future we are headed into. Funny, I remember this old parchment I was taught in grade school called the u.s. Constitution whereby the government was limited and its powers enumerated. And yet here we are in 2015.

[Peter G]

Atlas will shrug. And then there will be no more "wealth" to steal.

[vodou]

Atlas will shrug. And then there will be no more "wealth" to steal.

Already happened. Productivity, real wages, employment has been slipping for two decades (or more). Financial engineering replaced innovation and hard work. Those are your income and business tax receipts. Wealth tax is property tax. As always, follow the money. Even if you don't, they will. To tax it

 

These days "the money" is in assets.

[Peter G]

Atlas will shrug. And then there will be no more "wealth" to steal.

Already happened. Productivity, real wages, employment has been slipping for two decades (or more). Financial engineering replaced innovation and hard work. Those are your income and business tax receipts. Wealth tax is property tax. As always, follow the money. Even if you don't, they will. To tax it

 

These days "the money" is in assets.

 

How can a government tax a transaction that isn't "realized" or "recognized" ? So a person would need to sell their Spider-Man 1 to pay the tax on a book that they have no intention to sell ? People will rather just burn their comics in protest then have it stolen

[vodou]

How can a government tax a transaction that isn't "realized" or "recognized" ?

Property tax. Inheritance tax. Excise tax. They already exist. Many an artist's heirs have had to sell (or donate) significant works to appease the inheritance tax. People have lost their homes to unpaid property tax.

 

Remember, we the collectors of means (even if it's not what we spent but rather what we're now "worth") are the exception. if you're debt free and have $10 in your pocket you have more wealth than 25% of Americans. That 25% along with many others are the voters that will vote this stuff in to continue to believe in the false promises of SSA, public and private sector pensions, and social programs. If you have a net worth of $100k, you're in the top 7%. Amazing isn't it? $100k ain't nothing in an asset class (comic art) that's gone up circa 10x in the last ten years!

 

Nobody is going to burn their stuff. They'll hide it and hope not to be audited.

[Peter G]

How can a government tax a transaction that isn't "realized" or "recognized" ?

Property tax. Inheritance tax. Excise tax. They already exist. Many an artist's heirs have had to sell (or donate) significant works to appease the inheritance tax. People have lost their homes to unpaid property tax.

 

Remember, we the collectors of means (even if it's not what we spent but rather what we're now "worth") are the exception. if you're debt free and have $10 in your pocket you have more wealth than 25% of Americans. That 25% along with many others are the voters that will vote this stuff in to continue to believe in the false promises of SSA, public and private sector pensions, and social programs. If you have a net worth of $100k, you're in the top 7%. Amazing isn't it? $100k ain't nothing in an asset class (comic art) that's gone up circa 10x in the last ten years!

 

Nobody is going to burn their stuff. They'll hide it and hope not to be audited.

 

I can see taxing a "property transfer" as you describe via inheritance but not a tax applied to "locked up" wealth that the owner has no intention or realizing or recognizing a gain. If things get that bad that our government starts looking under the citizens couch cushions for any spare change then taxes are going to be the least of our problems.

[vodou]

If things get that bad that our government starts looking under the citizens couch cushions...

You don't think it will?

[Peter G]

If things get that bad that our government starts looking under the citizens couch cushions...

You don't think it will?

 

I think they will try. I just don't know if they will be successful. Not because the people will resist (they won't) but rather because I do not believe there is much wealth hiding under the couch cushions.

[Peter G]

A wealth tax is so

 

Let's RFID chip everyone and everything than and just get it over with.

 

We can call it..."The Internet of Things"

 

Like I said, Atlas will just not only shrug, He will die.

[vodou]

If it goes that way, the tax will be sold politically as a small burden (1 or 2% of assessed value a year) on those billionaires that collect $50m Warhols. I mean who doesn't want them to get hit, right? (Not me, but then I'm not expecting anybody else to ever bear my burdens in life.) But those guys tend to either slide out through loopholes or just relocate to a friendlier tax haven. That leaves everyone else behind, with the expanded tax code in place. Then it's just a matter of enforcement. I'd imagine CGC population reports and auction house records would help a lot with that. The small fish will slide, but the dealers will comply (or risk being put out of business) and the mid-size and larger collectors will eventually get audited and stung. So either you comply by self-reporting and pay your "fair share" or don't and cross your fingers. Again, would 99/100 Americans really have a problem with this? After all, it would only be 1 or 2% assessment annually (same as your RE property tax). A small sacrifice (to vote for others to make) to preserve the future of social security, medicare and whatever else get pitched? Oh yeah...and national security. Never forget that

 

Back to the comment Tim made, perhaps now is the time to look into becoming a licensed art appraiser?

[Peter G]

If it goes that way, the tax will be sold politically as a small burden (1 or 2% of assessed value a year) on those billionaires that collect $50m Warhols. I mean who doesn't want them to get hit, right? (Not me, but then I'm not expecting anybody else to ever bear my burdens in life.) But those guys tend to either slide out through loopholes or just relocate to a friendlier tax haven. That leaves everyone else behind, with the expanded tax code in place. Then it's just a matter of enforcement. I'd imagine CGC population reports and auction house records would help a lot with that. The small fish will slide, but the dealers will comply (or risk being put out of business) and the mid-size and larger collectors will eventually get audited and stung. So either you comply by self-reporting and pay your "fair share" or don't and cross your fingers. Again, would 99/100 Americans really have a problem with this? After all, it would only be 1 or 2% assessment annually (same as your RE property tax). A small sacrifice (to vote for others to make) to preserve the future of social security, medicare and whatever else get pitched? Oh yeah...and national security. Never forget that

 

Back to the comment Tim made, perhaps now is the time to look into becoming a licensed art appraiser?

 

You need a license to become an art appraiser ? , what a racket the government is.

 

As regards the dealers paying a "wealth tax" they will either pass the cost along to the customer via HIGHER PRICES or just go out of business as an unprofitable venture. Maybe Harley Yee and Vintage Comics will close up shop as they are small fish in the pond but Metropolis Comics will survive, maybe even thrive in such an environment.

 

All admittedly very speculative about the future. Who knows whether most people will even collect CGC comic books in 20 years or whether the monetary system we use today will even be the same. Let alone, the new players in the space.