HeritAge final sales

[delekkerste]

If people aren't putting money in stocks or real estate, is it going into collectibles? I bet a lot is sitting in low interest saving accounts or there just isn't a whole lot of extra investment cash around.

 

I saw Josh Nathanson of ComicLink and one of the Heritage guys (Jaster or Petty) talking at the Heritage auction yesterday about how great it was that magazines like Forbes and Fortune have recently published articles about comics as alternative investments and how great PR that was for the hobby (JN was looking to get some copies of the articles to use in his marketing).

 

I guess I'm just a little more cynical...I've found that it's usually paid off to "fade" the mainstream media. By the time you read about something like this in the press, it is, with few exceptions, usually too late to jump on the bandwagon.

 

Gene

[delekkerste]

Pretty soon though we may be spending comic book money on gas and electricity

 

I know this was said half in jest, but there's probably some truth in it. Whether or not we have a war is peanuts in the big picture, though. The really big concern is that with incomes falling, jobs being slashed, and markets plunging, the US consumer no longer has the means to service the massive debt load (now at all-time highs) that he/she has taken on.

 

My parents have a rental property in San Diego (one of the nation's top 2 hottest real estate markets) and their supposedly rich tenant is showing all the signs of teetering on bankruptcy. They have also been out looking for a new home for purchase (against my recommendation) and the dirty little secret that realtors aren't telling people is that renters are being evicted for non-payment, owners are declaring bankruptcy and property prices at the high end have been in a stealth bear market for 2 years. All this is symptomatic of too much debt in the system.

 

I think some investor money has been hiding out in comics/collectibles as well as real estate, and I don't think that the comic market is any more immune to the poison of financial leverage in a down economy than the red-hot SoCal housing market, where things also look rosy on the surface.

 

Bill Hughes of The Mint was making some big purchases at the Heritage auctions this weekend and was cited as saying what great bargains they got (I believe he said he would've paid $225K for the Marvel #1 8.5, far, far more than where it sold). However, aren't these depressed prices symptomatic of a greater malaise?

 

One industry heavyweight I talked to yesterday speculated that guys like The Mint are buying at what they think are great prices now and that they will hold onto the books and "ride out" the current soft patch in the economy and make a bundle on the upside a few years from now. I'm wondering what will happen if that rebound occurs from much lower levels or if the rebound is weak and short-lived when it does happen.

 

Well, one thing's for sure...it's going to be an interesting ride!

 

- Gene ("Just Say No To Financial Leverage")

[CosmicBob]

I didn't get any good deals. I overpaid on a couple of Superboys that I wanted (100 CGC 9.2 and Annual 1 CGC 9.2. I also bought the ASM #100 CGC 9.6 for $776.25. I probably paid too much for that one too.

 

There was a Superboy #109 CGC 9.6 that sold for $1035.00, which is 17X NM Guide price. I bid it up to $370, which I thought was pushing the limit. I couldn't believe that it went for over $1000. I know it's super rare in that grade, but who pays that price for a run of the mill Superboy issue? It does have Krypto on the cover, maybe that's what drove the price up there.

 

And I couldn't believe that they didn't sell that Action #1 CGC 5.0 Extensive (A) copy. They're asking $51K for it in the post auction sale. Did no one notice that the unrestored 5.5 copy only went for $120K (a bargain, if you ask me)?

[clobberintime]

I am a lot tighter now on my speculations than I was 6 months ago. The "big guys" who have a real stake in this stuff all say about the same thing - invest and expect to hold for 5 years. That sounds like good advice if you can buy pretty low like Metro said and afford to wait out whatever is going on. I have a lot of cgc silver and a little bit of golden age so i hope things ride the wave like they normally do. But like I have been told by Blazing and like metro was saying don't overpay and chase books - you can waste a lot of money by getting caught in the hype. Wads that Spidey 1 9.6 ever really a $100K book? I think the guide was way too high on Spidey 1s anyway. There are a lot fewer high grade Hulk1 and even avengers 1 and i think the guide may have been hyped into that price! At this point I would like to just wrap up my silver collection and have made some good buys from Bob and metro - made me ask what was wrong with the books cause the prices seemed so reasonable. Bu there are people out there still paying stupide prices. There is one guy buying all the high grade X-men on ebay - paying $2500 for X-men 6 9.4 and over $800 for X-men 9 9.2. If you looked around you could find the 9 at comicLink for $700 and the 6 at High grade for $1600! I still think "investors" get into this after reading those stupid articles and end up throwing money away due to lack of information or carelessness - they fail to study the market or ask questions before spewnding fairly large sums of money. A sure fire recipe on how to lose money at anything unless you are just plain lucky!

[FlyingDonut]

there are tremendous buys out there if you are willing to look. Somebody I know (cough cough) is buying up mid-grade Golden Age books for half Guide. If you don't worry about the slabbing fad, stuff is out there and good to buy.

 

But Gene's post raises some interesting questions - liquidity is probably at an all time low, and it will be interesting to see if prices start to come down on high end stuff, or if the Guide continues to reflect an artificially high ceiling.

[clobberintime]

Sounds like a pretty good price on the spidey 100 - I think that is about what I paid for one. There did seem to be some good deals on high grade Spideys.I don't follow golden age that closely but was surprised by the better than guide prices on the Timelys that were in fine to 7.0 shape - even the ones that had restoration did well. I wanted to get some of those but did not know where to start as I don't have any.

[clobberintime]

from what I understand the new guide is going to have extremely high prices on the 9.4 stuff to reflect the last 3 years of cgc - and to help draw in more outside/coin spec types who don't understand the current price situation with paying above guide. Congrats to the Deacons!

[CosmicBob]

The Heritage estimate was $750 and up, so I guess I paid on the lower end of their estimate. It was my max bid on the internet bid, so no one at the live auction even thought about bidding, since they cuold have gotten it from me by one more bid.

 

The Superboy #109 CGC 9.6 had an estimate of $220 and up and the estimate was blown out of the water even before the floor bidding started! So the SA DCs in High Grade are still going strong, even for obscure numbers. I never considered Superboy to be a "hot" title, but there must be a few other collectors out there (and they obviously have more money to spend than I do!)

[ericc123]

I have a couple of questions.#1 I haven't gotten an invoice yet (probably because they are still in NY) if I go to the MY BIDS page and it says I won does that mean thats what I owe? And #2 how does the floor bidding work after the internet bidding. I think I won my comic at the absolute highest bid I made and this seems fishy. Some one would have to have bid just below me because floor bidders win all ties right? So does Heritage just start at your high bid and if none bids thats what you pay. If thats the case they over charged me around $100 from the end of the internet bidding to the end of the floor auction.

 

Ericc123

[CosmicBob]

I haven't gotten the invoice yet either. I suppose it will come on Monday or Tuesday when they catch up on stuff. The My Bids page does say what you owe on the comics, but it doesn't always have the right postage and stuff, so I just wait until they email the invoice before I call it in.

 

As for the internet bidding/floor bidding thing. Two of the three comics I won this time were at my max bid. But they were my max bid when the internet bidding closed, so I expected that. I actually watched the LiveAuction thing to see what would be bid on my lots, and they opened at the bid I ended at. No one bid on them and closed very quickly and won them. So there probably isn't anything fishy going on, but it might not hurt to ask someone at Heritage, especially if you no that no one bid on the floor on the stuff you won.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

I won 13 ASM books at CGC 9.6 for around $20 a piece; 25 with the BP...

[greggy]

So..you didn't win the Cherry Poptart 1 CGC 9.6?

[murph0]

Sorry missed the replies. I picked up the Strange Tales 134, ASM 38 9.4, and that's it...I guess..I thought I won the Cap 109 9.4, ASM 91 9.6, and Cap 102 9.6 but it shows them as "not sold" and they don't have a Buy It price for them.. :\

Bah..I'm not even sure I won those 2 G.A. Caps now

 

Brian

[Bonds25]

Last auction, I won about 3 items (or so I thought) that had the prices in green on the MY BIDS page. Then the next day they were listed in the after-auction sale. What a crock!

[murph0]

I found some of those books in the after-auction sales. Evidentally they're in no order, that's why I thought they weren't there originally cause I only looked at the first page thinking the rest were like Original Art and the like. Evidentally the consignor must've done some wishful thinking, some of those prices are fairly high. I'm surprised the ASM 15 9.4 hasn't moved at 4,300 dollars. That's not a bad price.

 

Brian

[fantastic_four]

Ouch, rather scathing (but accurate) commentary on your competitor/peer/fellow dealer who advised the Spidey 1 CGC 9.6/AF 15 CGC 9.4 owner to buy those comics in early 2002! Investment lesson #1--never overpay for comics related to a movie when the hype is in full swing!

[tb]

The two books I was interested in went to around 2x guide incl BP

before the internet bidding ended so I decided to save my cash

for something else. I am going to fly out for the next auction if

something nice comes up - seems much cheaper to sweep up

stuff with a single floor bid than to fight it out on the web(?).

 

 

[clobberintime]

I bet you are right! if you wanted a seriously big time book it would probably be cheaper to actually attend the floor show than bid to infinity against JP or whoever online in hopes of winning. The only other alternative that would make sense is not to bid at all and hope it ends up in the after auction sale!

[dam60]

I was lucky enough to be able to be on the floor for Thursday and Friday and for the most part it was pretty dull. A lot of stuff sold to the internet high bidder, but the floor action for some of the stuff was cool. The Batman 103 took off on the floor, the ASM 101 cgc 9.6 got some good action. The high end stuff all got some good floor action. I guess if you are going to bid on some of the high end stuff, it might be worth it to go to the con.

 

DAM

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

Was the Batman # 103 the one that you were seriously looking at? What did it go for?